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The Official 'Batman 3' Thread

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Ray Finkle, Jul 15, 2010.

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  1. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    he was too preoccupied thinking about his future...

    [video]http://www.frequency.com/video/bane-after-batman-from-chris-kattan-patb/56322059[/video]
     
  2. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Ya he certainly didn't seem like the kind of guy w/a plan. :couch:
     
  3. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    His plan was thought out well, until the part that involved him being led around by a woman.........


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  4. Jaydog57

    Jaydog57 Canes/Fins/Magic fan

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    Just watched it this afternoon, I'm glad I watched it on the big screen. Interesting ending. I was just wondering :
    When they sent the food down to the cops stuck underground for 3 months, did they also send them Bic razors? They looked like they'd shaved everyday down there.
     
  5. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    Bic razors and lots of Charmin


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  6. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I'm not going to use spoiler tags anymore, if anyone hasn't seen the movie by now and is reading this thread it's their fault.

    I liked how both fights were the same. It shows how Batman trained to build himself back up and he learned exactly why Bane had the mask and used it to his advantage to chip away at it. It shows Batman being better prepared for their 2nd fight, you know character growth.

    Batman said to Catwoman he always thought there was more to her, he even told her she made a big mistake setting him up like that but he realizes how and why she did it. She wanted a way out. She made a poor judgment. She redeemed herself.

    I didn't have an issue with either Talia or Bane's fate. Batman wasn't going to kill either of them.

    I can understand that not having a lot of Batman screen time would be an issue to some people, but I didn't have a problem with it because the times he was Batman it was pretty awesome.

    I liked the John Blake character and like JGL as an actor so again I had no problem with that.

    Cops did have guns and weapons. They were trapped underground while trying to look for Bane. They didn't have the weapons Bane's crew had but most were armed. Even so, what could the cops have done differently? The bomb was going to go off in a matter of what 20 minutes at that point in the movie. It's not like they had time to find weapons or anything, plus part of the reason why they started the war was to distract Bane's crew so Catwoman and John Blake could open up passages for people to try and escape.

    He had a displaced vertebrate, the doctor needed to put it back into place. Is it unrealistic? I have no idea but what else was he going to do they were in a cave prison.
     
  7. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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  8. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    One of the things I liked about the movie was not telling Bane's origin story. I do not think Bane's origin story would have added anything needed into the movie and they did a good job of setting up the character without having to tell the origin story. One thing I do believe that is a crutch for comic book movies is the plethora of origin stories.

    The Dark Knight Returns did an excellent job of setting up the characters of Catwoman and Bane without wasting our time with an origin story. I would love to see a movie short of both origin stories as I would find them interesting.
     
  9. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Completely agree. We didn't need the back stories on either characters, in fact the more mystery surrounding those characters, especially Bane, the better it is. It's one of the reasons why The Joker worked so well in TDK, he just showed up with no explanation.

    While the deleted scenes do sound cool, they really aren't needed and probably would have messed with the pacing of the film. Which is why Nolan decided to cut it.
     
  10. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    I disagree in regards to Bane's backstory. We didn't need Joker's or Catwoman's background. I think the reason we needed more of Bane's is because of his physicality. I think we needed to understand more of what made him. We got to hear Joker twice talk about his past, how he got his scars. (was any of it true?, who knows?) But pretty quickly we were able to determine what made Joker tick. He wanted a better class of criminal, not all about money. With Bane, all we find out is that he is basically just a LOS crony, just sent to fulfill Ra's Al Ghul's mission.

    I also think if we got to see the injuries that he went through, we could also get a better understanding of the pit, other than just a prison cell. We'd get a better understanding of the mask, what it was for, how it keeps his pain level tolerable, etc.
     
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  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    What would you cut from the movie? The last thing The Dark Knight Returns needed was a longer running time.

    I disagree about needing to know more about what made him. I think the thing that made Bane interesting was knowing nothing about him.
     
  12. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    John Blake, Talia, or Catwoman. Easily.
     
  13. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I think we got enough of Bane's backstory in this movie. He was born in the prison, he got injured saving Talia. Ras and his man saved him and trained him then kicked him out of the League. What more do we really need to know?
     
  14. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    In regards to the Joker, we got to understand him better through his interactions with various characters. Especially in the Heat like interrogation scene. Also, he was playing psychological and sociological games with people, and he explained the context of them all. It was much easier to understand where he was coming from and why, regardless of the origin (which made the character better). Kyle was also explained pretty well through her interactions. Bane? Not so much... He didn't have a lot of substance. In the end, he was just a body guard. And no, Kyle shouldn't have been cut from the film... She was damn near the best part of it.

    JGL needed to be cut. His whole role is useless. In fact, that was one of my biggest issues. Everything JGL did, Gordon should of done... With Gordon becoming the hero of the story, Batman could no longer be needed. The hero of Gotham could have a face again (Gordon, finding redemption for his cover up, which was to protect Gotham). And the whole death sequences still could work perfectly. PLus, it makes the line about Gordon being Wayne's hero much more meaningful.

    And the inspiration of madness Batman created (one of the themes TDK) would be destroyed at the end. It would of brought the trilogy full circle. Bruce creates Batman to fix Gotham (hero) and encounters the consequences (inspiration for madness, and becoming the villain), and ultimately defeats evil once more (Bane) and destroys Batman in the process. By doing so, he truly saved Gotham (stopping the madness), and becomes the hero he set out to be. Batman is no longer needed for both Gotham and Bruce. **** John Blake.

    I think Talia sucked too. She was a terrible love interest. If she had been set up prior to the film, and a real relationship could of been explored, we could see her inner turmoil (loving Bruce but hating Batman), the kill stroke would of been more meaningful. Instead, she appears from nowhere, gets Wayne's trust, ****s him, and then chills out in the background, doing nothing, only to emerge at the end? Nolan tried to squeeze a little too much into the film character wise. It would of been a much better and tighter story with Bruce, Kyle, Bane, and Gordon being front and center.

    I didn't have a problem with the re-match against Bane. As Alfred said, Bruce Wayne wanted to fail. Bruce Wayne is all but dead. He's an old frail cripple, with barely the energy to raise his voice, waiting to die. He only comes alive again through becoming Batman once more. He's an old gunslinger with one more draw left in him.

    The league taught him to fear nothing and to use the fear of others against them. A man who fears nothing has nothing to live for. In prison, Bruce learns to fear again. Fear the fate of Gotham. The inspiration for Batman to begin with. He then climbs out of the hole, and fights Bane with a new psychological mindset. It's not just about him fighting for the sake of fighting, he's fighting for something again. Fighting for Gotham.

    Bane was suppose to challenge Batman physically. But in the end, Batman won because of his psychology. At least, that's my interpretation.
     
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  15. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Agreed about The Joker and Selina Kyle but not about Bane. How did he not have substance? And no he wasn't a just a bodyguard. He was the one running the whole operation while Talia was undercover as Miranda for over 3 years. He and Talia were equals in the plan.

    If you think Blake should have been cut you completely missed a main theme of TDKR which was that a hero could be anyone and also Bruce's reasoning for using a symbol such as Batman as a secret identity because that symbol could be everlasting way back in Batman Begins. Bruce never set out to be Batman forever but he wanted the symbol to last forever. Bruce chose to give Blake the keys to his cave as his successor because Blake was just like Bruce in a lot of ways.

    The character of Robin is pretty important in the Batman mythos and that was Nolan's realistic version of the character. Plus I thought JGL did a really nice acting job as well.

    Not sure how many times you've seen the film but at least from my experience the more you see it you get a better understand of the Bruce/Talia relationship. Talia had been in Gotham for over 3 years under the Miranda Tate name gaining the trust of Fox and Bruce along the way. She wasn't suppose to be a good love interest, she obviously was using Bruce from day 1. In there love scene she uses Alfred and Rachel against Bruce to weaken his already fragile state of mind to get him to sleep with her before his big fight with Bane.

    And again if you watch TDKR again and pay attention to all the scenes Miranda's in, there are hints that she's bad. In the first scene with Dagget at the Dent party she quotes Ras from BB, before Bane takes control of the city Talia calls a board meeting at Wayne Enterprises that Lucious Fox questions her reasoning for and before she answers Bane shows up and kidnaps them and another board member to steal the bomb, and when Bane's men find the Army Ops and all of the Wayne Board members hiding it's clear there's a mole or leak. Miranda also offers to help Gordon find the bomb in the truck etc.

    Yes, I agree and also that in their 2nd fight not only of Bruce more prepared physically but he knows more about Bane the 2nd time around, specifically Bane's reasoning for wearing the mask so he targets it.

    There's really a lot of depth in this movie, it needs repeated views in my opinion to truly catch everything that Nolan put out there. I've seen it 3 times now and when talking to people about it still miss stuff that other people have picked up and vice versa. That's what makes the film so great in my opinion.
     
  16. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    About an hour into the movie, I have to say I'm really NOT impressed at all so far.

    First fight with Bane = Possibly the WORST fight/action sequence Ive seen in a movie ever.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Bravo.

    I agree with everything you said.
     
  18. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Really? I thought the sequence was good. Bane had some great lines. "You think the darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the darkness. I was born in it, molded by it..."
     
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  19. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I did like that line. I mean more from a fight standpoint.

    I think my issue with this movie, is to me Bane is a MUCH lesser villain than the Joker was. The entire movie was a mind game against Batman and humanity, with Joker trying to show that deep down everyone is crazy/evil. Like the scene with the two buttons, trying to get each set of people to destroy the others and save themselves.

    I just get no sense of...anything deeper with Bane.
     
  20. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    WTF Why does that last dude still try to tackle the kick returner as explosives fire off around them :lol: dont even tell me he didnt notice!
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Why would you? He's a different villain. Why does he have to be as deep as Joker? Its not a fault of the movie that Bane is less compelling than the Joker. The Joker as a character is probably the greatest villain in all of comics. Then on top of that, you had Ledger's portrayal that is easily the best acting job done in any comic book movie ever (other than every guy in Avengers not visibly drooling over ScarJo.) There isn't an actor out there playing any other Batman villain, that could compare to the Ledger's Joker. You had to know that going in.
     
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  22. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Its not about being as good. It's about having depth. Bane has no depth to him at all. They arent making it up in other aspects either. The action sequences in TDK were way better as well.
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I know. Why should he have deep meaning just because the Joker did?
     
  24. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Because every character needs some level of depth? It's the first basic rule of writing just about anything halfway decent? Otherwise everything seems pointless and random?

    I do have to say the second half of the movie is much better than the first.
     
  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Your not arguing for some random level of depth. You are arguing for a specific level of depth equal or greater than Jokers. Bane had depth, just not as much as Jokers, but it was there.
     
  26. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Could of made his character so much better. Tom Hardy was really good and he's got some good lines but the writing w/him just fell short.
     
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  27. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    If that is what you are thinking I'm saying you are way off base. My point isn't that he needs equal depth, my point is that every character does need a certain level of depth especially if they are to be the main villain of a film or book. The fact that I said he is a much lesser villain doesn't imply that he needs to be an equal villain for the film to be good in its own right. It is that combined with the fact that they did nothing to balance this out in other aspects.

    The entire character of Bane makes absolutely no sense. He protected Talia because he knew how important innocence was....yet he had no issues destroying an entire city? His tiny bit of back story makes it seem as though he should be a GOOD person rather than evil, and is inconsistent with how actual human beings operate.

    Overall I'd give TDK a 10/10 and so I certainly didn't expect this to be the same. I give this one a 6/10. Worth watching but definitely not in the same league.
     
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  28. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I agree with this. My issue with his character is that it had the potential to be very good. Tom Hardy was great in a very limited role, and they gave him a few good lines. However they never developed him into something you could believe, and his tiny bit of back story felt soooo rushed.
     
  29. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

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    Glad to find someone else who agrees with me. Loved the first two movies; was disappointed with the rambling, bloated, at times illogical nature of the third.
     
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  30. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Really? You think if someone is a bad person they can never do a nice thing for someone? You don't think BinLaden was nice to people he cared about?
     
  31. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Completely agree.
     
  32. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    How many hardened criminals protect random children possibly at the cost of their own physical well being? Obviously its POSSIBLE but not very likely. It shows a strong sense of empathy that he doesn't display at any other point.
     
  33. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I can't really answer that as I don't know any known criminals. I still don't see how it's inconsistent with how humans operate I mean most human beings don't show up to a midnight screening of a movie and open fire but it did happen. People are truly unpredictable in the real world and in movies, unfortunately.
     
  34. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Dicaprio as the Riddler was Nolan's 1st choice. I loved the movie but was disappointed as well there wasn't MORE to Bane.
     
  35. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    That's incorrect. DiCaprio as the Riddler was the studio's 1st choice. I don't think Nolan would have used the Riddler in one of his Batman movies because he's too similar to the Joker. Nolan likes to mix things up hence why we got Bane and a war movie instead.
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Then I'm not understanding your argument.

    You are either saying Bane had 0 depth or not as much as Joker. Either way, i say he did have depth but not having as much as Joker doesn't equal a bad thing.
     
  37. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Like many have said already trying to compare Bane with The Joker is like trying to compare Batman to any other superhero. You can't as each one is different. If everyone was the same each movie would be the same, it would get old and boring.

    If you went into the film thinking you were going to get another Joker character with Bane you had already set yourself up for disappointment.
     
  38. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I think your underestimating Nolan's ability....he's creative enough to take the Riddler (who he may or may not have preferred) and created a totally separate character than the Joker and knocked it out of the park.
     
  39. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    He's saying Bane didn't have enough depth to not make his character seem extremely muddled.
     
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  40. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    To me the most important part of any movie like this, is the dynamic between hero and villain. In this movie there was very little.

    Im not saying either of those things. I'm saying what Slick said I'm saying basically. I only brought Joker up to illustrate how depth in a character plays into the dynamic I mentioned above. I'm not saying he needed the same depth or that he had none. Though I'd say it was closer to none than it was to a good amount.
     

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