Here's what I don't understand about keeping Ireland

So being biassed doesn't mean having 2 asses?

 

We have knowledge the sun is hot. We don't however know who made what call when it pertains to Ireland & Parcells. To claim otherwise is unintelligent and cheap. You can pretend we have preponderance of evidence, but we don't even have that. We have nothing. Its all guesses based on nothing. No one at this point should have an overly positive or negative opinion of Ireland.

Nope.

Nope.

 

I dont have evidence, but my intuition and what I've learned about Parcells over the years give me more of an inclination that while he was here, he was buying the groceries, so for me personally, I can only judge him from last year to present, mid season we should know what we have..Also, the research and things that I have heard and read from other executives, and some tangible examples of him scouting keep me interested to find out whether this guy is a serious talent in the evaluation dept, and even though he might be rough around the edges socially, I can live with that...

 

I dont understand what Original poster doesnt understand..... it just seems like he doesnt think Ireland deserved to keep his job, but he did, so he's baffled or something. What people don't seem to understand is that Ireland was a product of Carl Peterson, long before he even met parcells. So if you have Peterson's approval, your going to be good with Stephen Ross. Obviously Peterson played a big role in the turnover of the staff, but told Ross he'd be making a mistake to discard Ireland.

That aside...... I dont see what the hell the problem everyone has with Ireland is. I hear a lot of complaining about absolutely nothing. His biggest critics will tell you "he sucks, fIRELAND, I blame him" and draw stupid cartoons about him dying. No solutions suggested, pretty much just mindless garbage. Ever since the Dez Bryant thing he's had a bullseye on his head. He's been made into a scapegoat, especially after Sparano was fired and he was the last man standing. What was the big mistake ? Apparently a question he asked a recruit. Never a complaint about his body of work. Some folks are just always looking for the next fall guy. .

I dont see anything to justify dropping him for god knows who. Jeff Ireland will be a GM for a loooooong time in this league. I promise you that.

 

Your acting like Ireland has been the coach as well. It's pretty obvious Sparano was in over his head. And to think this team isn't talented at all is comical. I think you should have faith that Ireland will make the right decisions next year because you have no reason not to. Your focusing on silly little things like a backup Columbo not playing well, or a few other lineman that were promising until Sparano got hold of them. I could make a far larger list of moves I'm sure glad the GM made. If you dont like Ireland, tell us who the better option was !

 

The simple fact of the matter is:

1. Ireland was not a GM prior to arriving in Miami, so I'm not sure why the media & fans decided to judge him as if he were already an established one.

2. If you hypothetically owned a billion dollar company, contracted a czar to initially revitalize it, and hired someone of no prior experience but with great potential to eventually run it, would you:
__A. immediately hand your future GM the keys?
-or-
__B. initially limit his responsibility & decision-making ability by training & mentoring him first?

3. If nearly 100% of fans answer B [above] but 40% hold him heavily accountable for his first few years, then there's a disconnect here.

4. If you choose B above, do you:
__A. let your GM in training dictate how he, himself, wants to be trained & mentored based on what he feels is best for the company?
-or-
__B. does your czar in charge [who brought with him & implemented his own blueprint] do the dictating?

5. If nearly 100% of fans answer "B" but 40% hold the GM in training accountable for the company's lack of production and unsuccessful employee hirings, then again there's a disconnect here.

6. If your czar's blueprint & philosophy were outdated and ineffective on many levels, including the hiring of faulty management (coaches), then doesn't most of the blame lay on the czar rather than the GM in training who was merely carrying out standards & expectations set by his czar?

7. With the faulty czar gone, the mentored GM is now free to apply his own philosophy, hire his own team of management (coaches), implement his own blueprint, and set his own standard for what type of employee (players) he's looking for.


So basically Parcells, as we all know, had full control while he was here. He brought with him his own specific blueprint and expected others to follow it just as he always has. Ireland, b/c of his potential and success in Dallas, was brought in to mentor under Parcells so that he could one day take over as a true GM. Unfortunately, Parcells failed; therefore Ireland following Parcells' blueprint would by default look like a non-success as well. What I mean is--- yes, Ireland was involved in decision making and the drafting, signing, & scouting of players, but were these decisions & players in accordance with Parcells' blue print or did Ireland have free reign to scout & draft whomever he wanted? That's a rhetorical question b/c we all know how anal Parcells was about his blueprint and philosophy.

What has to be distinguished & determined here is---- will Ireland continue upon Parcells' outdated path or does Jeff possess his own philosophy and distinct blueprint that has set him on a different path, one potentially toward success? Based on his coaching hires, drafting, and change in organization's personality, he obviously shares a different philosophy & blueprint than Parcells.


So now we have to determine if Ireland's philosophy & blueprint are successful. It's too soon to be conclusive, but what we know so far is:
A. The organization, previously disattached from the fan base, has now become approachable and seems to value fan opinion.
B. We've finally prioritized the QB position rather than seeking retread QBs in the "win now" mode.
C. We've finally placed an emphasis on QB development and putting one in the greatest position to succeed rather than doing the exact opposite.
D. The previously boring, outdated, ball-controlled, possession-based offense has been replaced with a modern one.
E. The conservative, play-for-a-FG, in-over-his-head Head Coach has been replaced with one not governed by fear and who seems to have the intelligence to compete with NE.
F. The complex [to a fault at times] defense has been replaced by a more attacking one that allows players to think less & react more, and will hopefully better utilize the talent we have on the field.
F. We no longer handicap our draft [and team's talent potential] by prioritizing a ridiculous, specific, height/weight/etc standard, especially at the expense of speed, athleticism, talent, and playmaking ability. (IE: We're no longer a stable full of big, slow, possession-based WRs, TEs, RBs, Oline, traditional pocket passers, and defenders more geared to stop the run than prevent the pass.)
G. We seem to be drafting for the future and for value rather than need, which is the sign of a good organization and confident GM.
H. We're not wildly & desperately throwing gobs of money at high priced FAs hoping for a quick fix. We're instead methodically building through the draft and likely conserving future salary space for players who can possibly take us over the top rather than spending FA money just to spend it. That, too, is the sign of a confident GM.
I. Parcells might've failed in Miami but he wasn't a failure, so it's possible that Ireland [who seems quite intelligent] actually learned a thing or two about being a GM, was intuitive enough to distinguish what was & wasn't effective, and is smart enough to not repeat the past. Perhaps it's good that Ireland was here first hand to see this organization's failure so that he can better prevent the same mistakes in the future.
J. Great GM's aren't created overnight; they all have to develop their underlying ability, and I'm guessing a successful, billionaire, business man with a billion dollars invested in a company has a better idea than most regarding both his GM's potential or lack there of and his past mistakes & failures or lack there of.

 

You're absolutely wrong.


.


It's Parcells fault. Not Sparanos and certainly not Irish's.


Sent from my iPhone

 

If there's ANY problem regarding the hiring of Jeff Ireland, it's the title that was initially assigned him. That's ALL that anyone [outside of Miami ownership and mgmt] can surmise at this point. If instead he were more appropriated titled Assistant GM, then most of the Ireland accusations would be non-existent. Unfortunately it's the nature of the fan to blame someone for their team's failure, and a person carrying the title "GM" makes for an easy target.

 

That seems to be your tactic bud, spinning it to support your argument. Try seeing the big picture. If you want to blame him for Ernest Wilford than give him cred for signing Pennington. I did attribute the offensive line woes to Sparano's failure, rightfully so. But your fingering Ireland for a string of losing seasons with a coach that was fired mid-season. You cant even acknowledge a good move ( what you said about Odrick ), so I'm wasting time with this. And the fact that you think the team still has no talent is whats really confusing. Our entire defense is one of the most talented in the league and they all came after Ireland arrived. The O-line too. We have a better QB situation than we've had since Dan, the most explosive back we've had since Ricky in his prime, I could go on and on. Can't wait for some good coaching to take effect !

 

Why would you run??


Bane?

 

What I understand is that you're not just disagreeing with someone, you're taking the cheap, lazy, unintelligent route by calling into question their motivation for disagreeing with you. That's what I understand.

 

And since no GM will have a 100% success rate, mistakes are magnified even further when someone else [Parcells] is responsible for some of those mistakes.

For instance, our 2009 draft class might've looked infinitely better had Ireland taken the guys he wanted rather than Parcells's Pat White, Pat Turner, and John Nalbone. Then again it might not have, but we can't simply assume Ireland would've failed [or succeeded] if he did it his way and based on the types of players he, himself, wanted. However, his prior success in Dallas should conclude a greater chance for success than failure.

Also needing consideration is the trickle down affect of Parcells's failed 2009 2a, 3rd, and 5th round picks and how they perhaps influenced our 2010 & '11 draft. If Ireland had control and perhaps drafted Connor Barwin or LeSean McCoy over Pat White (as I recall Barwin was a player of interest and McCoy fits the type of back Ireland seems to like), then there becomes no need to draft Koa Misi in 2010 or pay Bush $5.0M/year in FA money that could've been used elsewhere.
Seeing as we drafted Egnew (considering the type of TE he is) and 2 UM guys, perhaps Ireland would've drafted Jimmy Graham (whom we also showed interest in IIRC) or even Gronkowski. Considering the speed and playmaking ability Ireland seems to covet at WR, perhaps we instead traded up our '09 3rd rounder for Mike Wallace. There's a chance that we could've had much of our '10 & '11 draft completely freed up had we potentially not needed to make up for Parcells's draft & acquisition mistakes. There's just too many scenarios that could've played out to accurately gauge Ireland's first 3 years.

 

No those aren't my cartoons, those are a friend of mine named Vince's cartoons, and they're rather hilarious which is why I usually retweet them. I also post his unflattering cartoons of Rex Ryan even though I (gasp) actually respect Rex as a football coach to a very high degree.

I've explained my arguments on Jeff Ireland many, many, many times over the last two or three years. If you've not seen those explanations, so be it.

 

The title wasn't just words on a piece of paper. He had final say on personnel written into his contract, and simultaneously Bill Parcells' contract was worded very carefully so as not to conflict with it, because the league needed to review said contracts in order to rule that Miami had the right to steal Ireland away from the Cowboys prior to the 2008 Draft. Jerry Jones wanted Ireland to stay on for that Draft but he was given no say in the matter by league rules.

 

Sure it was. You basically said it yourself--- Ireland had to have certain stipulations written into his contract in order for Miami to steal him from Dallas.

Meanwhile, behind closed doors there was likely a wink-nod between the organization, Parcells, and Ireland who all understood they were using a loophole to circumvent the system, that it was Parcells' baby, and that in time Ireland's day would come. Of course Parcells' contract would be worded carefully or else the whole ploy to steal Ireland from Dallas to be groomed under Parcells wouldn't fly. This is an obvious case of perception and reality being two different things.

 

The situation is more telling than the piece of paper Ireland's contract was written on, and how his contract is written shouldn't throw logic out the window.

 

Actually didn't like the word either...the bottom line, as you said is there are differing opinions and there may be varying degrees of right and wrong in either 'side' of the argument... However, unintelligent is a bit harsh...Just like describing bias as "irrational behavior resulting from some kind of prejudice" is a bit over the top in the meaning of the word...JMHO...

 

If you cant respond to someone without acting out or being a turd then dont respond. Thats why theres an ignore list for each of you or simply walk away and ignore the post that would cause a rude response.

 

Idiot Knick fans don't know dik.

 

If anyone believes that Ireland actually had 100%, unobstructed, final say-so on personnel [b/c it was written in his contract] then I'm not sure how well they know Parcells.

Having it written into his contract does NOT mean he doesn't have to follow a specific blueprint established by Parcells (IE: size, weight, college experience, skill set, and system fit based on a coaching staff that Parcells, not Ireland, hired).
Final say so isn't really final say so when you're having to sign and draft players who fit someone else's prototype (Parcells), play for an inept coaching staff (Sparano & Henning to name a few) that you didn't hire, and in a terrible offensive scheme that you didn't implement. Basically, they hand you the checklist (a crappy one at that) and you try to fill it the best you can despite it not being the checklist you want to be working with. Here's how different the checklists are to show you how relative "final say-so" was in Ireland's case.



Rough prototypical desire for what Parcells & Ireland seem to want
Parcells QB: drop back, game-manager type with 7+ years of starting experience at a major program who can operate a run-oriented, possession style offense. Mobility, athleticism, and playmaking ability aren't significant. Will have the fear of God put in him by HC & OC to not make mistakes.
Ireland QB: mobile, athletic, playmaker with the ability to make all the throws and operate a spread, passing offense. Will sacrifice starting experience for natural ability & potential. Scoring points and taking some chances are ok.

Parcells RB: bigger, possession-style bruiser who fits a smash-mouth, man-blocking scheme. Won't sacrifice much size for speed & playmaking ability.
Ireland RB: dual-threat, playmaking, match-up problem creator who fits a zone-blocking scheme. Will sacrifice size for natural talent & pass catching ability.

Parcells TE: big, inline blocker, emphasis on blocking ability. Minimal sacrifice in size & blocking ability for speed, athleticism, & receiving ability.
Ireland TE: athletic, versatile, match-up problem creators. Greater emphasis on receiving than blocking. Will sacrifice size and blocking ability for versatility, playmaking ability, and match-up advantage ability.

Parcells Oline: Big, man-blocking mauler. Won't sacrifice much size for agility & athleticism.
Ireland Oline: Agile, athletic zone-blockers.

Parcells WR: Bigger, possession-style WR. Emphasis on moving the chains over playmaking ability. Little sacrifice of size or blocking ability for speed, natural talent, and playmaking ability.
Ireland WR: Doesn't seem to have a specific prototype. Instead seems to like a diverse stable of guys who compliment the offense in different ways.

 

Thanks CK I think ill rent it there's a lot of good actors in that clip.

 

Not at all before my time I just never slowed down much for tv or many movies until my mid 30s.

I have not watched Blazing Saddles either. But have heard the title a lot.

 

great post bro, to bad this thread got moved, not as many folks will read it.