The Official 2012 Boston Red Sox Thread

The Sox had zero leverage in the Youk trade talks, every team knew the Sox needed to move him. Plus don't forget the guy hasn't been completely healthy or the same player since 2009. The last two years he couldn't finish the season due to injuries and was hurt twice this year already. Add to the fact that he looked pretty bad for the most part this year at the plate and on defense I could see why they wouldn't be able to get much back for him. That's the common problem with people judging this trade. They think of Youkilis from 2007 to 2010 but needed to see him play in 2012 to realize why the return was lower.

But let's not play armchair GM here. Before Youkilis was traded EVERYONE wanted him gone so Middlebrooks could be the everyday 3B. I truly believe Youkilis needed to leave Boston or he wouldn't have played as well as he has in Chicago so far. Plus can we say SSS too? Look I'm glad he's having good games with the White Sox and I'll always root for him but I don't think he's going to continue this the whole year.

And let's not forget there were other factors involved not just the on the field stuff but off the field stuff too. This trade wasn't about "winning" or "losing" the deal, Zack Stewart and Lillinbridge aren't very good. This was getting Youkilis out of town and giving Middlebrooks the full time gig.

 

The first quote was what you said about the trade when it happened.

As far as the 2nd quote, who bad mouthed Youkilis except Bobby Valentine? No one said anything but nice things since he left, unless I missed something. And really Bobby Valentine only said that stuff about Youkilis twice, once at the beginning of the year and once a few days ago. Other than that, again unless I missed something, no one bashed him. The Sox even threw him a bunch of video tributes last night, if anything they really went out of their way to celebrate him, compared to what they have done to past stars returning.

How did the Sox bring it on themselves? Youkilis was awful with the Sox this year. His defense was terrible, zero range, his bat was slow, he got hurt twice before July. What leverage did the Sox really have? Again we are talking about an aging star on the decline that hadn't been healthy in 3 years. Not sure why everyone is 2nd guessing the deal now when everyone thought it was the right move when it happened.

 

Ok then everything you said in your previous post was wrong. Only Bobby Valentine bashed Youkilis, no one else did/is. And there hasn't been a "run the player out of town" thing like there has in the past.

Again this wasn't consistent bashing of Youkilis, Valentine made one public comment in April and then one comment a few days ago. After Valentine made the original comment in April the FO (specifically Cherington) actually backed Youkilis and not the manager as did some of the players (Pedroia, Ortiz) in public.

Also if you agree that the Red Sox improved via addition by subtraction why should it matter who they got in return? How does it show the Sox FO panicked etc?

And yes I agree Bobby V is a trainwreck and isn't a good fit for the team etc etc however it is extremely possible that if Valentine wasn't the manager Youkilis would have been traded this season due to his poor performance and Middlebrooks catching fire. Valentine did more harm than good with the situation but it is possible that even without his public comment in the beginning of April that Youkilis would have been traded by now.

This was similiar to what happened with Mike Lowell in 2010 only the Sox weren't able to dump Lowell on any team like they were with Youkilis.

I mean if we want to bash the FO for this trade should we start to bash the Yankee FO about the Burnett trade now too?

 

I have heard whispers that Youkilis wasn't well liked in the clubhouse dating as far back as 2008. There have been rumors (I stress the rumor part) that he was a problem last year in the clubhouse and some current players feel like he might have been the leak that led to the Francona/Beer/Chicken stories. None of those "stories" have ever been made public, confirmed or even written in articles, it's a lot of sports talk radio chat.

 

Awesome. Should be any day now when Crawford hurts his elbow on a throw (let's make it a simple throw of a foul ball into the stands to a kid) and has to get TJ surgery.

 

Maybe it's just me but I'm glad I got to watch the "real" Carl Crawford the past 2 games. What he and Ellsbury did in the 1st inning last night was awesome, hopefully they will be doing that much more this year.

 

It didn't happen at all last year, in fact I don't think Crawford ever drove in Ellsbury at all either. But that was mainly because Crawford batted in the bottom of the order 99% of the season.

I wouldn't say Saltalamacchia is coming back down to earth, this is what he is, a .240 hitter with power. He's just striking out a boat load lately.

As for Middlebrooks, the only thing that worries me about him is the 9 walks in roughly 190 at bats. That's been the biggest knock on him. He needs to be more selective at the plate.

 

I dislike Valentine, but I give him credit for sticking Crawford in the 2 hole right away. That was one of my biggest knocks on Francona last year as I think he overracted moving Crawford from the 3 hole to 7th after 2 games. Crawford should have always batted 2nd with Pedroia batting 3rd.

It also sounds like Crawford likes the guy, so at least 1 Sox player liked Valentine so he's got that going for him.

 

I'd trade Crawford for Hanley in a heartbeat but seems like wishful thinking there by Ken Rosenthal. Can't see how the Sox can trade Crawford right now (or ever). Don't really understand why the Marlins would trade either guy for Crawford either. Doesn't add up or make sense to me.

 

Yes I would take Heath Bell if it meant getting Hanley and getting rid of Crawford's contract.

 

It's simple, the Sox will give Bell a shot, if he continues to suck (which is most likely) they can simply just cut him. The main goal of this trade (assuming it happens) is to dump Crawford and his salary while getting Hanley. Bell is just an extra piece, if he works out great, if not "Hey we got Hanley and got rid of Crawford".

As far as why Hanley is having two straight down years, I don't know. I don't follow the Marlins everyday to give a good judgment. It's possible the new ball park hurts is offense a bit, maybe he just needs a change, who knows. I have a hard time believing Hanley is done as far as being a star player, he's still in his peak (age wise). Mainge would be better to answer this though. Maybe he's just unhappy in Miami ala Youkilis in Boston (minus the Bobby V crap).

Not sure I get why exactly the Marlins would make this move though. I will say this is interesting IF this trade happens with the state of the Sox clubhouse. Bringing someone like Hanley who's a bit of a headcase might not be the best thing for this team. But then again maybe he's exactly what they need. I don't know. But this is certainly going to be a fun couple of hours/days/week.

 

Buster Olney is a buzzkill.

 

There you go, like I said I haven't followed the Marlins that close this year.

 

Boston has no problem paying some part of a contract in order to trade a player. They have done it numerous times in the past from Edgar Renteria to even Julio Lugo(!).