False choice, I'd be fine with sticking John Jerry at RT and letting him play, or Nate Garner, or Lydon Murtha. And yes, that is my rational now, put it this way: -Highest draft pick used on a player who possibly could score Td's..Pat White #40 overall -Highest draft pick used on a Wr, 3rd pick on Pat Turner -4th rd pick on Hartline -Highest draft choice used on a Te, 5th rd pick, John Nalbone -Highest pick used on a Rb, Daniel Thomas late #2 pick no 62 or so I've seen this over and over again.
Fair enough. Except we allocated two #2's and $50 million to WR Brandon Marshall. A #2 is just right for a RB IMHO. I don't like to invest too highly in that position. But we used THREE picks on RB Daniel Thomas. And we do own the rights to one Reginald Alfred Bush, whom we were criticized for spending ANYTHING to acquire (the #6, Jon Amaya). We're also pursuing Archie's boy and Matt Flynn. I'd say that's pretty meaningful. Would it mean more if we throw picks at it? I'm judging this offseason once we complete it. If it's a failure, I'll sadly call it as much.
It is deeper than that: 2 #2's for Marshall AND trading out of the #12 overall and Earl Thomas (Elite Athlete, playmaking FS) then taking Vontae Davis and Koa Misi, one does not start, one is a good Cb, in order to recoup that #2 pick. THEN, trading Marshall for..a bag of beads and a 1998 Bears program n 2 #3 picks Sound good to you? Far better off simply keeping Marshall, and yet...Ireland couldn't bring himself to do so.. Even better, Ireland runs away from playmakers, overpays guys who do not score Td's or even makes plays, signing Winston would be him to a "T", meanwhile, John Carlson is visiting KC as is Hillis. Think we have either one in for a little chat? Oh look, what a surprise.
I have to agree with Padre here. Ireland has shown his unwillingness to take a gamble and sign playmakers, and instead, always goes for the safe picks and the hope of striking gold in the late, late rounds. Something needs to change. We cannot continue to be the safe players. Picking safe is our proven recipe for middle of the table records.
I hate the Marshall trade. Hate it. If our front office can't even spin a second rounder out of a CURRENT Pro Bowl wide receiver and legit #1 receiver, then...I don't know what they are doing employed. Especially with very few options to replace him (Reggie Wayne does not replace him). I am okay with going after Eric Winston. Adding Winston to a line that consists of Jake Long, Pouncey and perhaps Icongnito gives us more talent and more continuity than we have had in forever. But it still doesn't forgive the two third round picks that Marshall netted. Not even close. That is why I am frustrated. It feels like Ireland took the first offer on the table as opposed to doing what is best for the franchise. And what is worse is that it feel like they did it to save money to fill other holes, while ripping open a gaping one in an otherwise, secure part of the franchise fabric.
I am willing to see how the whole offseason goes, but as of now I have to say Padre's view is looking correct. To this point, we have done nothing but go backward. It will take some real maneuvering to get us rolling.
Yes, let's judge his draft status based solely on his rookie year. Didn't do much as a rookie, so sure to never develop, right? You like to point out the value of special teams when it suits you. How did Gates do running back kicks?
I'm sorry, I'm getting Pat Turner and Clyde Gates confused, which one needs more time? Not as well as Marshall did catching footballs.
I don't mind getting Winston as it will allows them to sure up 3/5 of the line Philbin and Sherman wants to build. You cannot rely on Garner, Murtha, and Jerry to fill the crucial role of RT especially now that Mario Williams may be in the division. Now they can use their top picks elsewhere possibly for play makers. Maybe us the extra picks to trade into the back end of the 1st or early 2nd round to select: Brandon Weeden (if need be), Coby Fleener, or Mark Barron.
You're better than a stupid *** quote like that Padre. A really good RT keeps the QB upright for another second to throw TDs or let R BUsh score his TDs. B Marshall was very good in spurts, rare spurts. He was very inconsistent. Even though I consider R Wayne a level below him standing alone, if you pair Wayne up with a good QB, we won't miss a beat and probably will score more TDs.
Uhm, then you point to Reggie Bush who had a 1k season behind that same garbage RT? Someone posted this in club, MOST teams find a 2nd or 3rd rd pick to play RT, they are cheaper and nearly as effective as a high priced FA RT, however in Miami under Ireland, that is not good enough, we have one of those, John Jerry, oh no, far better to spend that $$$ on a FA RT.
You HAVE to trust one of them, and find playmakers instead of high priced FA who do jobs low buck young guys SHOULD be doing, what was the point of drafting John Jerry...if you won't then play him? Signing Murtha if you won't then play him? Garner?
PURELY CATCHING, YES. Marshall led league in drops and Clyde was top half in avg. I just want to say again, I can name 20 WRs I would rather have than Marshall when u factor in salary and what could be done with that $$$ N
If you can't tell Gates from Turner, then I guess our discussion here is over. Many WRs develop after their first season. I cannot see how that fact is so hard to grasp, and whether Turner did it or not has no bearing on whether any other individual receiver not named Patrick Turner will develop. What does how well Gates did as a KR have to do with how Marshall did as a WR?
I'm sure we could find someone who could say the same about any player. Personally? No way there are 20 WRs in the league I would rather have than Marshall. And Pads I agree with you. The amount of high end resources we are looking to dump in the OL is crazy. We seriously should not need a line full of all stars to compete. At some point you need to find a few value guys to bracket the high end guys.
Seen it before Mr C, and put it this way, "if" Gates was to raw to operate in Daboll's simple system, how pray tell will he perform even better in a far more complex WCO style system?
Baloney. I fully support moving Jerry to tackle ONLY if we upgrade the guard position in FA. that minimizes deficiencies across the line. Jerry could man the RT position and certainly be better than Columbo, but he isn't going to wow anyone. There's a difference between "good enough to start" and damn good. We've been settling for "good enough to start" across our line for years, I have no problem if a serious upgrade is available and we jump on it. Having 2 bookend stud tackles + Pouncey in the center either (A) protects Manning better so he can play a full season or (B) give Flynn a big advantage starting for this team.
I really wouldn't mind two stud tackles, but you rarely get a stud tackle (let alone a 28 year old one) in FA. Teams usually make them a priority signing for precisely the same reasons you've mentioned. The sheer fact that Houston lets Winston walk would worry me - a lot.
The fact of the matter is you do not know with any degree of certainty the difference in complexity between Daboll's and Philbin's offense. Gates being in his 2nd season, and an entire offseason in the program has a good chance of developing further. You may have seen it before, but you ain't seen it with Gates. Every player is unique in what they can or cannot do. No one is counting on him to step in and replace Marshall anyway. He'll be part of the mix, but it's very likely we add another WR or two. Nothing like a good knee jerk reaction in the meantime though.
Cruz Nicks Bryant Austin Fitzgerald Moss Floyd Floyd Wayne A.Johnson C.Johnson Jennings Nelson White AJ Green When u factor in salary...all of them
See: That's precisely why I'd be worried. They're letting "one of the better RTs in the league" (and a major reason for Foster's success) walk because he had a minor surgery and a 5.5 million salary? Either Houston really needs to get their priorities straight or there's something not quite right with this picture.
2011: Winston played 1203 of 1209 possible offensive snaps for Houston 2010: he played 1081 of 1081 2009: he played 1084 of 1084 2008: he played 1077 of 1077 possible snaps The man is as reliable as it gets. He has also graded out as one of the best all around RTs over the past few seasons. If you want to worry there is some deep dark secret reason why the Texans cut him, be my guest. After all, he would be the first really good player who was ever cut simply for salary cap reasons. Oh wait!
Well, according to these guys: http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp Houston was $4.7 million over the cap. Maybe they try to replace him through the draft or in house. The move would make them approximately $800,000 under the cap. Give me a second to research some other figures.
I wont object to that at all. I sure hope we get Dallas Clark , Reggie Wayne and Peyton . or get matt Flynn and Justin Blackmon .
Exactly how many young stud tackles who graded out as one of the best all around RTs have hit the market in the past decade? Oh wait!
Cruz - Maybe, lets see if he can keep it up past this last year's performance. Nicks - No Bryant - Talent wise maybe, but he may be even more of a headcase than Marshall. Austin - No Fitzgerald - Yes Moss - **** no x100 Floyd - (Malcom?) No Floyd - ? Do you mean Notre Dame kid, or do you mean Brandon Llyod maybe? Wayne - No A.Johnson - Yes C.Johnson - yes Jennings - Yes Nelson - no White - Tie AJ Green - Probably IMO there is a group of super elite WRs - Megatron, Fitz and Andre. Then you have tier 2, guys like White, Jennings, I think we can stick Green there. I would put Marshall in this group. I still think you give him a real QB and he would explode. I think we will see him have a resurgent year with the Bears and Cutler.
