so what about doing whatever it takes to trade up to 2 for RG3 and sign Mike Wallace since the Steelers have cap issues. That give a big play threat across from Brandon. With RG3 and Reggie being so explosive that offense could be crazy.
Just something about RG3 I dont buy into....not sure what it is?? Just kind of scanning back through his games, it looks like he had a great year last year, but really didn't face a defense. Seems like he struggled the year before when they actually did play some defenses. Would have been nice to see him face a more defensive minded team in their bowl game or maybe one of the SEC teams. I just dont buy into him at this point.
How exactly will we sign Mike Wallace and trade up for Griffin? Wallace will surely be tagged with a 1st round tag, and if we don't have a 1st rounder, we're definitely not even going to have even the slightest chance at Griffin.
It would be nice to get Mike Wallace. But I think Stitches is correct. And as lukewarm as I am towards Matt Moore, QB is a bigger need than WR. And while Wallace is a good player, I think RG3 has at least the potential to be a more valuable player. But I doubt we will be either able or willing to get RG3. I would think that either Cleveland or Washington will like him as much as we will. And they will probably be able to give up more to get him, at least in terms of draft picks, not necessarily in terms of giving up players. Even with all of that, the biggest question may simply be whether Ireland actually likes RG3.
I'd rather have Mike Wallace than RGIII. Even Matt Moore could find an open receiver with Marshall, Wallace, Bess and Hartline on the field if he had enough time.
If Philbin wants Flynn we get Flynn. If he does not we do what we can to get Ryan Tannehill to groom and sit tight with Matt Moore until he is ready. If Tannehill is gone by 8/9 then we do whatever it takes to move up in the tail end of round 1 to get Weeden. RG3 is out of our reach and not worth paying the price for. He has as many questions attached to him as Tannehill.
Funny how some people on here love Tannehill and Weeden, but both these QB's played in the same conference RG3 did. I agree that the defenses in Southwest Conference were basically weak, but the fact is that RG3 had a QB rating which was far superior to Tannehill or Weeden, while playing against many common opponents. I happen to think RG3 will turn out to be every bit as good as Andrew Luck in the NFL. It is my hope that the Dolphins will make a blockbuster trade to move up and take RG3 in the draft. Unfortunately I don't see this happening and I also don't see the Dolphins being able to sign Manning or Flynn. Right now, I think it will be Matt Moore at starting QB for the Dolphins next year and with the Dolphins not moving up to take RG3 or Luck, I just don't see another QB in this draft who will be successful in the NFL. So in 2013, the Dolphins will still be trying to solve the same QB issue which they have had since Marino retired.
I really like RG3, he has great intangibles and is one of the most athletic Qb prospects ever. He has a great deep ball and will work hard to be a great pro. I think he'll wind up making a big impact in the league. The problem is that we are going to have to compete with the Skins and the Browns, maybe more teams to get to 2 and I don't think we can part with what it would take to get him. If a bidding war starts for the 2nd pick it could get stupid, like 3 first rounders and other picks, etc, I don't see us paying that much.
Let the skins and Browns compete for RGIII. then we can focus on the better long-term prospects: either Flynn or Tannehill.
I don't disagree with RG3 but I don't think that it's fair to Philbin to use up a lot of high round draft picks to get one player, despite what he may bring to the table. This team isn't ready to compete based on the talent we have. Wallace probably isn't going to be a FA, he's likely to get the tag...that means at least a 1st round pick and lot of cap room to get him. What will we use to get RG3 if we've used #8/9 to get Wallace ?? It's sexy and bold, but not reality to think we can get both... I don't like it even if we just go after RG3, as I said it would be unfair to Philbin to take away probably 3 draft choices to get him. My guess would be our #8/9, our 2rd rounder and next years 1st rounder... Even RG3 isn't worth that to me. Not when we can get Flynn for cap space only, and give him the chance to develop into a Matt Schaub type QB...(not elite, but more than serviceable)...Naturally, Philbin would be more qualified to make that decision and if he thinks that's a reasonable level for Flynn to achieve, then I say go for it... Like most of us, I don't know what the best option is, but I do know that strapping Ireland and Philbin in the draft this and next year, even for a potentially great player just isn't worth it. We have only limited cap space, except for creating more holes with cuts. We are changing both the offensive and defensive schemes on this team. That will open up a few more holes than what we had before that...We need to fix the OL with 2 starters, we need to supplement the TE position, we need a WR with some speed opposite Marshall, we need 2 safeties, a pass rushing DE or OLB (someone to complement Wake), and then there is some back up guys. Yeah, some of these will have to come with current players either improving or being put in the right spots but it's still a lot to get along with changing the schemes... Acquire Flynn (providing Philbin's knowledge warrants making this move), look for a situational pass rushing DE and a OL and maybe a second tier WR with some speed in FA. That frees Irish up to draft BPA in all rounds...Maybe even a QB if one falls. Not that I expect that, but I'd even be on board with Foles or Osweiller in the 3rd or 4th (although I don't think they'll last that long)...
Really...why don't you think they'll go after Flynn ?? If they don't go after Flynn or Manning, wouldn't that increase the chances they'll go after Tannehill in the draft...even trading up (I don't like that option) to get him ?? The best case scenario for us is that Manning is healthy enough to be signed by someone needing a QB sooner rather than later. Wash is my best guess. They have the staff in place, some talent although they could use better targets for Manning and Shanny can adjust his scheme to Manning's strengths much easier than anyone else looking for a QB, although anyone getting Manning is adjusting their scheme). Cleveland is in too good a spot to want him. They are close enough for RG3 and can still trade down for multiple picks if they want to. Carroll would like to make a splash in Seattle, but they seem content to settle for whatever is left for them... There are a few other teams looking for QBs, but likely not to have the desire to make bigger splashes... The wild card, for us is Manning being able to be signed shortly after he's released by the dolts...The quicker he's signed, the quicker the pieces fall in place as to what QB is going where...
If Philbin is not high on Flynn, I would have a very serious plan in place to move up to 2 and pick RG, I think the Qb and person is worth the risk involved.. Change the game..
The problem with RG3 is that most of what he did successfully in college won't be what he does in the NFL. He wasn't in a pro style offense and he was not asked to read defenses (pre-snap or post-snap). Weedon was in a spread as well but had far more read responsibility. Tannehill was in a pro-style offense and had a ton of read responsibility. Tannehill is by far the easiest evaluate in terms of what he will do. Near as I can tell most of Tannehill's detractors are basing it on stats and dinging him for INTs that were clearly not his errors. RG3 may end up being good or even great, but you're guessing b/c so much of what he will be asked to do, he hasn't shown. I like RG3 as a person, leader and even as a passer, but there are some flaws (pocket awareness) and unknowns (reading defenses) in his game which could be fatal or at least limiting at the next level. Everybody has their own levels of risk tolerance, but personally, I find him to be too risky to trade up for.
I have heard nothing from Dolphins camp which makes me think that Flynn is the answer at the QB position. Therefore it will not surprise me in the least if Philbin is not nearly as high on him as some posters on this forum are. Even if the Dolphins do want to sign Flynn, it is no sure thing that he would sign with the Dolphins. I am sure he is going to go where he will be paid the most money and perhaps Philbin wouldn't want to risk his job by convincing Ross to overpay for an unproven NFL QB. Even if Manning is healthy, I really don't see him wanting to come to Miami. I see him instead signing to play for the Jets, Cardinals, or perhaps the Redskins. I think Ross wants Manning far more then Manning wants the Dolphins. It also would not surprise me in the least if his neck problems just don't cause him to call it a career and he goes ahead and retires. As far as selecting Tannehill in the draft goes. I see him as another Henne in the future. I just don't see him or Weeden or any of the other QB's in this draft, except RG3 or Luck, being quality starters in the NFL in the future. I see this as a two QB draft and all the other QB's in this draft will end up as future backups in the NFL, IMO. Perhaps Philbin is extremely high on Flynn and he just doesn't want to tip his hand this far in advance of free agency. Yet if he is not enamored with Flynn and hasn't advised the Dolphins to go after Flynn in free agency, and if the Dolphins don't make a blockbuster trade for RG3, I just don't see them being able to resolve their QB problem during this off season. That is why I see Matt Moore as the starter next season with no long term answer at the QB position on the team next season. Hopefully the Dolphins can make the trade for RG3, or perhaps they can make a blockbuster trade next year in an effort to trade up and draft Matt Barkley in the 2013 draft.
Your complaint regarding RG3 was the exact same complaint regarding Cam Newton before he was drafted in the NFL. How did that work out once Newton got to the NFL? I have no concerns regarding RG3 and his ability to read defenses. He is an extremely intelligent individual and he has the work ethic to achieve star status at the next level. I think he is going to be so much better in the NFL than Tannehill or Weeden that it won't even be close. In fact I don't see Tannehill or Weeden ever being effective starters at the NFL level.
No, it wasn't. I loved Newton coming out. Newton had more read responsibility and showed great pocket awareness. And it has been proven time and time again that intelligence is not predictive of whether a QB is good at reading defenses as fast as the NFL requires. As for Tannehill and Weedon, I don't agree.
That's very true...other than Ross saying that he wants a franchise QB, we haven't heard anything at all about any of these guys... but there is a need at QB for this team. That said, there IS a connection between Flynn and Philbin, like it or not. The likelihood that IF they make a play for Flynn, it will be because Philbin's opinion is that he's capable or even better than that. You may very well be right about Philbin not wanting to balance his HC job on Flynn. He may also like the idea that he can implement his offense much easier with Flynn than most of the other candidates. I'm just looking at the obvious here with Flynn.... I'd kill to have a healthy Manning here, but I don't see that in his future... I'm not a doctor but what we do know about this type of injury and Manning's age add up to not enough for what we'd pay for him. And as you said, other than he's got a condo in SB, what connection is there. New coach, new scheme, etc... When will he be ready to sign and will we wait for him ?? Would waiting until May or June to sign manning be in the best interest of Philbin and the staff ?? They will already have to alter their preferred offense for Manning, then to have a shortened offseason to prepare the team for it...?? MMoore has shown more than most of us expected, but is he the answer. We don't know...He's also already under contract, so preparing him along with whoever they pick up, if anyone won't cost us much...if he works out.. There also IS a connection between us and Tannehill. I don't know that he represents Ross' idea of a 'franchise' guy either, but he could be convinced by Philbin and Sherman. He's got a wavering history. He isn't considered one of the can't miss guys by anyone. But our connection there may give us some insight that others can't see yet on the kid. If they don't get Flynn or Manning, I can very much see them going after Tannehill, given the connections and they'd still have MMoore to sit in for a year while giving him the time to learn pro defenses and grow into the job of an NFL QB. He's only got 19 starts at QB, he'll need the time... No matter the way it works out, only Flynn, Manning, MMoore, Orton or Campbell are ready to start next year. Each of those guys have their flaws. And this is the misinformation season for NFL types. You believe little of what you hear and read... The fact that we haven't heard much from the Fins camp isn't surprising nor does it really indicate anything about any of the QBs we've discussed on these forums...
The fact that he haven't heard anything definitive is hardly unexpected. At this point it would be tampering to talk about any of the eventual FA QBs. We've heard rumors that Manning is the top choice for Ross and Ireland and that Ireland's plan is to target Flynn and Mario Williams (DE) from a different source. From Sherman we've heard how he thinks that continuity is very important. That would seem to favor either Flynn or Tannehill. We've also heard Sherman praise Tannehill for his confidence after talking about how important he thinks that is. That's about it. IMO Flynn and Tannehill are far and away our most likely QBs. Manning, if he recovers quickly would be in there as well, but I see that as unlikely. I expect that Flynn will be courted by Seattle and Miami and that Tannehill will be an option for Washington (depending on what happens in FA and draft) and Miami. Although the Haslett rumor implies that Tannehill isn't as high on their list (here's hoping).
Understand and understood Rafs, however, on a player with this amount of checks on the list, you still wouldn't. 1) absolute supreme confidence in his abilities..a swagger unlike our franchise hasn't seen since Danny. 2) elite qb athleticism..from the waist down he can do more than extend the play, he can get himself out of any situation with eyes downfield..coveted aspect to our new Qb. 3) Very competitive nature.. 4) Hi level of arm talent, he can do anything he wants with a football. 5) incredible accuracy, separated this from arm talent because this is more innate, more of an instinctual element of the skillset. 6) presence...the ability make others want to follow and play at their best just because your on the field with them....He has it.. Put'em all together and I ask you Rafs, if this dude's package isn't worth the risk,then who is, and when will it ever be appropriate to move up.?
It would be appropriate to move up for Luck. It depends on your QB priorities. IMO there are a few things that a QB must have to be a franchise guy. Accuracy Decision-making Ability to extend the play Leadership If the prospect misses on any of those then the risk that he will eventually develop it goes up exponentially. For Me RG3 checks off accuracy and leadership, but there are question marks on the other two. Decision-making includes reading defenses. He simply hasn't done much of that. History has proven that it's about more than intelligence. There's an instinct and processing speed element that some of the brightest just never develop. Since RG3 hasn't shown it in the offense he was in, we just don't know. It's not his fault, but if you take him, you're doing it blind to one of the critical franchise QB factors. Under ability to extend the play, RG3 is clearly a great athlete, but he has also shown very poor pocket awareness. I saw him take far too many hits that he absolutely should have sensed and avoided. It's a bit of what you saw with Gabbert this year. His poor pocket awareness is what hurt his rookie campaign more than anything. And IMO he showed far better pocket awareness in college than RG3 did. Either one of those question marks will raise the risk level unacceptably high for me to consider trading up. In fact, if they were both available (RG3 and Tannehill), I would probably take Tannehill. If the question was who was the better college QB then it's RG3 hands down, but that's not the question. The question is which one projects as the better pro. I'm more confident in making the projection about Tannehill and the continuity factor where he'll go into what should be a very similar system puts him over the top.
