No QB has EVER won 2 superbowls with 2 different teams. (Meaning that when a team finds a superbowl QB they hang on to them and when they get rid of them it is for a reason{injuries, old age, declining skills etc.}.)
This circumstantial statistic means nothing whatsoever to be honest. Most Superbowl winning QB's are franchise QB's who stay on one team their whole career. I do know that 3 of the most recent franchise Superbowl winning QB's to play for different teams, went on to take their new teams to the Superbowl/Conference Championship. Those 3 being Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, and Joe Montana. I'll take that any day of the week. If this meaningless stat even crosses Jeff Ireland's mind should the time come to make a decision on Peyton, he should be fired on the spot.
That's right, the stat is meaningless. Just because a QB wins a Superbowl one place doesn't mean he's incapable of winning one elsewhere. It's as ridiculous as people not wanting Cowher or Gruden because a head coach has never won a Superbowl with 2 different teams.
Your stat is actually meaningless, because only a small percentage of QBs actually win superbowls. The fact that those three QBs still took their teams to either the conference championship or superbowl implies that you can still have success with a QB on another team. Not that I want Manning on our team next year, definitely against it, . Typically, superbowl winning QBs who switch teams go from a top notch team to a desperate team. THat's much more of a factor than your stat.
If everyone made their decisions on something because it hasn't happened in the past, we would be living in a pretty boring crappy world. It's called making HISTORY.
THIS is why I say the NFL needs another 100 years before trends can be established. This stat means literally nothing. The reason why QB's don't win on two different teams is because they generally leave their teams after their usefulness is over. Manning is no such QB.
The only question surrounding Manning is whether or not his nerves will regenerate to a point where he will be able to throw the ball like he has in the past and no one knows the answer to that. Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure Kurt Warner won playoff games 2 years in a row and had a SB appearance with his second team. Not signing Manning because no QB has ever won a SB with 2 teams is a pretty funny premise. Edit: I forgot about Warner going to the Giants. The Cards were his 3rd team.
If the Colts did not have the number 1 pick where they could get Luck than they would be paying that bonu to Manning.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. And you know this HOW??? If it was a given that he IS still 'useful', as you say, teams would be BEGGING to give up their #1's to get him.............but it aint happinin.
History also tells us we shouldn't trust Japan or Germany. What I just said is as relevant as the "fact" in the original post. Not at all.
-If the stat was meaningless you could name many QB's who have done it.(the fact that it has never been done in the history of the NFL makes it very legitimate.) -Naming guys that have made the playoffs etc. doesn't mean anything. It just supports the point further by stating they haven't won the superbowl. A playoff win doesn't count as a superbowl win and a super bowl loss doesn't count as a superbowl win. -The fact that the category is small and that not many superbowl QB's even switch teams also supports the stat. If you want to ignore history and believe that Irsay would let Manning walk without throughly, throughly investigating if he was healthy or could become healthy that's fine. He won a superbowl with the colts, is the face of the franchise, and fans love him and he has broken many records. These guys don't just get kicked to the curb.
I agree with your last paragraph. But your original premise is still irrelevant. Kurt Warner was one play, arguably one of the top 3 plays in Super Bowl history - from Winning the Super Bowl with the cardinals . To ignore that is myopic.
No one will know if Manning is even worth signing until way after their plan A's are already in place... But lets say he is! Can you go back and see how many of them made the playoffs with both teams? Gotta get there before ya can get anywhere
No, it proves that there's too little evidence to put any thought into this meaningless stat. Sorry but if there's a healthy Peyton Manning sitting there for the taking, and an NFL GM of a team with a serious need at QB, like the Dolphins, says "Well, Peyton is healthy, and one of the greatest to ever play the game. We also have complete **** at QB, which has been the case for over a decade. But you know what... I can't sign Manning. No QB has ever won a Superbowl with 2 teams." Well, that GM needs to be run out of town by an angry mob with pitchforks and torches.
Not to open a can of worms but I guess we should never acquire a black QB either then. Statistics and all.
Ok, but whether we sign Flynn or a rookie, guess what......no team has ever won a super bowl with Flynn or Moore or whatever rookie we get as a starter. OH NOES!!!!!!!! WE'RE DOOOOOOOMED!!! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!!
And he owes Manning $28m bonus plus salary if he keeps him and still has what is considered to be the the only guy as 'can't miss' as Peyton was in 1998 sitting there waiting for April 26th to come around...Given that he's cleared the house of Peyton's old cronies, owes that much money if he keeps him and there is still a question of Manning's health, even if it's just a matter of time to when he's going to be ready, despite the love affair with the fans there is no way Irsay keeps him... Yes, he'll kick Manning to the curb...and usher in Luck...
As to the validity of the stat, while that factoid is true, there is little supporting evidence that alone is significant. And actually because the feat in and of itself is so team oriented, not just the QB, Warner's presence back in the SB, albeit not a victory, negates your premise. A QB can join another team and play as well as he did to get his team to the SB. Winning that SB requires that the team is as good around him and that the opposing team isn't better for that game...That wasn't the case for Warner with Arizona. That said, they wouldn't have made the playoffs without Warner as their QB. The fact is, that while it's true that no QB has led two different teams to SB victories, it's also true that due to the complexity of actually getting to the SB, that the simple fact that the QB of said team was with another team that he took to the SB is not enough of a reason to proclaim that "NO QB can ever go to another team and lead it to a SB..." And a major reason for that is the rules of the CBA. It allows teams to, via the franchise tag, keep elite players without having them hit FA. If you have an elite QB, you aren't going to let him go unless you have other reasons for doing such...In most cases, it happens after the guy is physically broken down, such as Favre and Montana (although Montana enjoyed some success in KC). Manning showed no such physical breakdown prior to this injury. Personally, I question that he'll be able to return at his old level from this injury, but I am not a dr. nor am I a psychic. But if he can get the regeneration to a level that allows him to continue, even if it's slightly below his previous level, is there any doubt that he's not an elite QB, capable of taking a team to the SB ??
You didnt say a 'healthy Manning'........... IF you are saying a 100% healthy PM, I dont see it happening. Not with THIS injury, and at his age. Right now, I would take Rogers or Brees over Manning. So I disagree PM is the MOST USEFUL QB IN THE LEAGUE. no biggie though.
Doug Williams was the starting quarterback and Super Bowl MVP of the Washington Redskins when they won Super Bowl XXII...and seeing the ratio of black quarterbacks vs white quarterbacks in the league, there have been three black starting quarterbacks in Super Bowl history, Doug Williams, Steve McNair and Donovan McNabb...one win and two losses. Closing that can of worms right back up
Listen, here's the problem with the mindset of trying to sign a former Super Bowl winning quarterback. First off, as it was already pointed out by someone, a Super Bowl winning quarterback is usually a franchise tagged player that spends his entire career with the same team...Griese, Bradshaw, Staubach, Elway, etc...very rarely does a Super Bowl winning quarterback become available through free agency, but if one does, the question becomes, why???? WHY is THIS quarterback available??? Usually there's some kind of issue with that particular player, either his game level has dropped off that he's only a shell of his former self, or a previously sustained injury that makes the risk of keeping him too high should he become injured and have to rely on a back-up quarterback for continued success. Let's face it, not every team's back up is an Earl Morrall. So in a nutshell, if you are able to come across a former Super Bowl winning quarterback, you're not getting THAT player...you're getting less than what he was. The two high profile Super Bowl winning quarterbacks that came on the market in recent times were Joe Montana of the San Francisco 49ers and Brett Favre of the Green Bay Packers. Let's address Montana first. Joe Montana is arguably the greatest quarterback to play the game, having won 4 Super Bowls while at the helm in San Francisco. He was instrumental in San Francisco becoming the dynasty they were, but due to concussions that Cool Joe had suffered, the 49ers had to look to the future, and did so with Steve Young. Due to Young's level of play, it was apparent San Francisco had found their heir to Joe Montana and in 1993, traded Joe Montana to the Kansas City Chiefs. Montana prospered in Kansas City, taking the Chiefs to the AFC Championship game against the Buffalo Bills, but seeing how the Cheifs were in desperation mode for a franchise quarterback (Steve DeBerg was good, just not good enough), the trade of Joe Montana was more of a gimmick than it was a solution to Kansas City's woes. During the 1994 season (I remember this as I was stationed at Fort Leavenworth at the time), the artifical turf of Arrowhead came back to haunt Montana, after being tackled, he slammed his head against the turf and suffered yet another concussion, essentially ending his career. Next is the most recent and probably by far, the most prima dona of quarterbacks in Brett Favre. Now, when it came to toughness, Favre's is without question, but at the time the Green Bay Packers drafted Aaron Rodgers, Favre's level of play was only a shell of what it used to be. In addition to that, justified or not, his offseason antics of whether or not he was retiring paced the Packers in a predictament. Over the course of his career, he had been to the Super Bowl twice, garnering one victory, but other than that, disappointing playoff exits which didn't sit well with the Packer front office nor the fan base. Additionally, the streak....the streak the streak the streak. Favre played injured, seriously injured so many times, his lack of physical ability as well as that "gunslinger" mentality of his caused the Packers their chance at either the playoffs, or resulted in that interception (at least it always seemed like Favre TRYING to force a throw resulting in a pick) that Green Bay drafted his heir, Aaron Rodgers, which began the soap opera the was Brett Favre. Favre retires, then unretires. As a result, the Packers traded him to the New York Jets, a team looking for a quick fix like Kansas City did with Joe Montana. Favre's "shellness" of his old self becaome apparent during the season. Now granted, Favre played well in New York and did indeed get the Jets to the playoffs, but in Favre's last 5 games of the season, playing injured, he three only 8 TD's and 2 int's, and the Jets lost 4 of their last 5 after going 8-3 on the season. So Favre retires and then unretires...and is traded to the Vikings. Again, another team looking for a quick fix. Now, he plays well to get the Vikings to the NFC Championship game, but once again, the gunslinger with an empty gun threw yet another critical interception during the NFC Championship that lost the game to the Saints. Secondly, there's usually the age factor. To paraphrase Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark, it's not the years, it's the miles...and a quarterback in the NFL has ALOT of miles put on him. Manning's been in the league for 14 years. He's 35 years old. For a quarterback, that's a gazillion miles put on the body and at that age, things break easier and take longer to heal, especially if your a medicore team looking for a quick fix. Montana was injured during his 93 season in Kansas City. Favre was injured both in New York and Minnesota during his runs there and with Manning, we're not talking about a sprained ankle or shoulder, we're talking about fused vertabre in his neck and seeing how if we ewre to try and get Manning, it would only be a quick fix...the facts of the past clearly show the risk is clearly not worth the effort. Now I could dig and find examples of others I'm sure, going back to the of NFL days, but these are the two more recent examples that clearly demonstrate when a team is looking for a "quick fix" and a Super Bowl winning quarterback is available, chances are you'll have a successful season and the fan base will be roaring like the crowds at the colloseum cheering for the favorite gladiator, but in the end, it's not going to result in a Super Bowl championship, and when it comes to the discussion of Manning? I love Peyton Manning. Hell, I'm a Gator fan and LOVED watching him play in Tennessee...I even loved watching him play with the Colts. The man has been a beast over his career, but it is because of that "love" I have for Manning is why I wouldn't want us to get him. It would break my heart to see his get hit, break his neck, get carted off the field and be paralyzed as a result of it. Surely we fans aren't THAT desperate to want to risk seeing that possibility become reality....are we?????
I'm not an advocate of signing Manning either, but that has more to do with not wanting the front office to cross their fingers hoping he returns to health while there may be other options out there. But your argument is off-base because it seems to be confusing the fact that it hasn't been done with the idea that it can't be done, and given the fact that Warner had his team in the lead with only a few minutes left in the Super Bowl doesn't help support any argument that says it can't be done. It only adds to the fact that it hasn't.
One can argue Earl Morrall did. he replaced Unitas in Super Bowl V and the Colts won, he also got the Colts to Super Bowl III when he replaced a injured Unitas. Morrall also started 11 or the 17 games in the Dolphins undefeated season (most people forget that). So just maybe a Super Bowl winning QB who played for the Colts that them comes to the Dolphins means we will win the Super Bowl (just using your logic).
IMO the problem with trying to win with an older QB is the limited window. In the NFL the talent is too close, so winning it all has an essential element of luck. You could have the best talent and not win it all simply b/c the schedule, the injuries or the bounces just don't go your way. Any short-term strategy is very vulnerable to that. However, if you build for the long-term then you have a better chance of the luck evening out over time. One of those years you're likely to be the team that gets the bounces. IMO that's why most teams that go all out in FA to gather that all-star team, tend to fail. They simply can't keep all the talent in place due to injuries or age or salary cap long enough wait for that lucky season. Then they have to rebuild again. The more successful teams tend to use long-term strategies. They develop players and keep the same systems in place. That strategy just provides more opportunities where the team talent and the luck can come together in the same year.
I think we are in a good position to take a chance on Manning if we think he's healthy enough. As long as we go into the draft still having the Qb position as a top priority its not a bad gamble. We have Moore to back him up and if we have a guy like Tannehill developing behind both of them its a great position to be in. This is if Philibin doesn't sell the front office on Flynn obviously. I would be disappointed if we signed Manning then ignored the position in the draft, even if he's healthy its time to draft his replacement. Even if Indy didn't have the top pick they would probably still be looking to take a Qb early to eventually replace Manning, at 36 you need to start thinking about the future.
I actually REMEMBER Earl Morrall. I don't know if many people here actually ever saw him play. God he looked like an old man...the last of the crew cut quarterbacks!! He was awesome!!
Never said I had any bro. Just my opinion vs. yours. No harm, no foul. We shall see, I guess. DN.............I remember those days too. Man WE are OLD.
I would only consider Manning as an afterthought. I do everything assuming he'll never play. If we want and miss out on Flynn. And we can't trade up for Luck or RG3 (if that's who we want). And we miss out on or don't want Tannehill and Weedon (IMO it would be a mistake to miss out on one of those unless we have Flynn). All that misses and we're stuck with Moore and some non-first round worthy QB, in that case, I would sign Manning to some incentive laden deal fully assuming that Moore is who we'll play and we have to hope to land Barkley or some other QB in the next draft.
For once in a long while, I actually doubt we will be in the position to draft high enough to get Barkley after this coming year. This coaching staff, ON PAPER, is so much better set up to prosper. If we dont get a QB THIS year, it might be awhile...........again.
