2 minutes til patriots fans cry

You think Jeff Ireland is bad at drafting in the first two rounds

 

I'm sorry, which Super Bowl were you watching? Because the final score was 31-25 and nobody picked anybody apart. He was 24/39 for 304, 3TD and no int. That's a whopping 61% completion average. Chad Henne throws that for crying out loud. Roethlisburger was no better, going 27/40 for 263 with 2 TD/1Int, so to say that Rodgers "picked the Steelers defense to pieces" is nonsensical. In fact, what separated that game was....wait for it...Nick Collins' pick 6 off of Ben Roethlisburger.

Oh my God....a defensive score actually made the difference for the Packers!!! Without it....they would have LOST by one point!!!

I don't have to keep trying. In my world, 2+2 still equals 4 and in that Super Bowl, a defensive score is what made the difference.

 

Then by your arguement I guess Chad Henne put on a stellar offensive clinic, right along side Tom Brady during the season opener, going 30/49 (61% comp), 416 yards, and 2 TD's, huh?

What was the score of that game again? Oh yea

New England 38
Miami 24

 

I believe The Cheater gets too cute on draft day. It seems he just wants to win the draft(making moves for the sake of making moves) instead of identifying real talent and selecting early. Top GMs would have made a killing with all of those picks through the years. So therefore we shouldn't be too worried about the Taintriot's drafts.

 

Considering it's Belichick drafting, I aint even mad.

 

I guess by your definition that was a great defensive match up.

And yes, Henne played excellent offense that game.

 

if you don't think the giants got this far on defense you might want to keep trying. What about the niners? the ravens? The jets last year and the previous year? Or was that all their qbs picking apart the oppositions defenses? The game hasn't changed as much as you are trying to say it has.

 

Not sure if srs.

 

No I'm looking at a team that was ranked high in defense during the playoffs and also held two the top scoring offenses below their points average. You are looking at what helps your argument not reality.

 

I don't know why it needs to be an either or situation. Clearly, defense is valuable and should not be ignored. But clearly to win the big one it is becoming very evident that you need a top notch QB with good receivers who can take over a situation and drive his team and put points up in a critical situation.

Defense is important and should not be overlooked, but getting that QB is vital.

 

Damn, it took 5 pages for this comment to eek its way out.

 

I can name more defensive teams. my point is there is no one way to do it, even with the rules change. Suggesting as much is to not view the league properly.

 

Yes, I do think Ireland is terrible in the second round. He has done a decent job in the first round though. If this is suppose to be a knock at the drafting ability of the Patriots. All you have to do is look at the Patriots record over the last four years, compared to the record of the Dolphins over this same time period. It is obvious from a record stand point that the Patriots have done a much better job of selecting talented players over this time period than the Dolphins have.

 

Not in the first two rounds.

 

except most of the teams that have won won with good defenses as well. Don't believe me compare the packers defense this year and last year. Whats funny is we've seen the epitomy of great offenses in the packers this year, and the 2007 patsies, and guess what? They lost. You can't win without balance. This is fact. This means there is no one way to win. The fact that I can even name 4 teams this year out of the playoffs that had good defenses, and were successful, should tell you it is occurring enough to not be an anomaly like you suggest.

 

Ireland has not drafted one quality starter in the 2nd round since he has been the GM of the Dolphins. In 2008 he drafted Henne in the second round and he also selected Phillip Merling with the 32nd pick in the draft. Neither of these players were worth being selected this highly in the draft. Merling has basically been a bust and Henne is out the door after four years of proving that he is not a starting QB in the NFL. In 2009 Ireland selected Pat White and Sean Smith in the second round. White was a complete bust in the NFL and Smith has been an average CB in the league at best.
In 2010 Ireland drafted Koa Misi. He basically lost his job to an old Jason Taylor this year and there is speculation that the Dolphins are looking for another linebacker to replace him. He has played at a below average level since his arrival in 2010.
In 2011 Ireland drafted Daniel Thomas in the 2nd round. Again I see nothing great about this pick. Thomas played decently in two games this past season and was either out injured or played poorly in the remaining 14 games. I don't see Thomas being an effective RB in the NFL in future years.

So basically I don't see a single player Ireland has drafted in the second round that is a quality starter in the NFL. In fact the only players of this group who are listed as starters for the Dolphins today are Smith and Koa Misi and as stated earlier, the Dolphins are looking to upgrade the linebacker position now occupied by Misi. I also have to feel that the Dolphins would love to replace Smith in the secondary, but with all the other needs on the team right now, replacing Smith will probably have to wait until the 2013 draft.

I would give Ireland a D- on his second round draft picks since he became the GM four years ago.

 

After his comments when leaving us, kinda gives ya a warm fuzzy feeling doesn't it? Gisele gives me a warm fuzzy pup tent

 

I don't think anyone is saying defense isn't important. It is. However, we have had a good defense the past two years and we haven't done crap. Meanwhile, the Packers with a great offense and lousy defense went 15-1.

The most important cog in being a great team in this day and age, is QB. That can only mean the offense is more important, in this day and age.

You can compete in this league with GOOD offense or a GREAT defense.

 

You need a defense but it doesnt hqve to be Balt 2000 defense. You do need a great qb. it will usually come down to the qb making or 3 critical plays and not the big mistake.

 

You know....what really truly gets me in this offense/defense argument is that some of you absolutely refuse to look at the facts.

Aqua, you wanted to call me out on the Green Bay Pittsburgh Super Bowl. You didn't like the post I gave, so let me try this then...

The Number One defense in the league that year? The Pittsburgh Steelers
The Number Two defense in the league that year? The Green Bay Packers

Never mind, I went through this exercise before, going back some 10+ years in which the defenses of Super Bowl teams, either in appearance or victory of, outranked their offenses...so I'm not going through this again

 

Actually getting my info from here: Link

Pitt was #2
Green Bay was #5
And for reference, Miami was #6

So a top 5 defense will get you into the SB, but the #6 defense will get you a losing record? The difference in those 3 teams that year? Offense.

Furthermore this year:

The Giants O was #8 and their D was #27
The Pats O was #2 and their D was #31

 

I have to agree with the balance thing here. I'm not heavy into one camp or the other in what is required. As in better D vs better O. Take the Pack this year. Sure, offensive juggernaut, and surely you need points to win a game. But if your D is like swiss cheese, and the O struggles in a game, you have no chance to win. NYG showed them the door and blew them out.

Need that balance where either your O or your D can steal/win ya a game if the other sputters on a given day. To have 1 stong and the other laughable is counter-productive and you shouldn't expect to win the big one.

 

I think that a good balance is key as well. With that being said, I think that defenses are the more apt to turn momentum a team's way. Whether it is forcing a turnover, or getting a stop in a key situation, the games hinge more on what the defense does than the offense does. I think that D coordinators have resigned themselves to the fact they most offenses will gain yards, and have made themselves more risk managers than anything. Limit explosive plays and allow drives that end in FGs instead of touchdowns seems to be a pretty decent recipe for success at any level.

 

assuming all you need is qb to be the packers is trivializing defense.
And we've seen GOOD defenses compete. Such as the falcons this year. And they competed with a pretty middle of the pack offense as well. So no, thats not true either.
The eagles were the number 4 offense this year how'd that work out for them?

 

Philbin is on the right track with passer rating differential. I've always used YPA differential and TOs, but they basically get to the same place. It's not offense or defense. It's passing better (more efficiently) than your opponent. Both a great QB and a great pass defense contribute to that. This has been the case for at least the last 60 years or so. Even the 2000 Ravens and the 72/73 Dolphins were incredibly efficient passing teams. I do think that the rule changes (rule interpretations really) have skewed it more towards the QB side of late, but both still matter. You might not win even with Brady as your QB if your pass defense makes every opposing passer look like the second coming of Marino. Conversely, if your pass defense is so good that it makes every opposing passer look like Ray Lucas then your odds of wining are pretty good even if your QB is just middling.

 

Pretty sure I said QB's were the most important cog and not the only cog needed.

What's your point about the Eagles? Houston had the #2 defense, what did they do? Again, this isn't about how great one team is at one phase of the game. Its about which phase of the game is more important to success in this day and age. Hell, San Diego had the #1 offense & defense the year before this last one.

 

Ok fine. Even assuming all you need is great qb play to compete, however you view that, is trivializing defense. It does it by default. Yes, having a great qb can help your team, just as having a great guard. The argument is how much. Even if they are the most important cog, its not as far ahead of others as you are trying to make it seem.
houston made the playoffs. the second round. with their #3 qb.
and I have no idea what you are saying with your last part.

 

Yea, Belichick has certainly done a terrible job on draft day. I guess that is why the Patriots had the best record in the AFC this past season and were in the Super Bowl. In fact the Patriots have been in the playoffs 9 out of the 12 years he has been their head coach. They have won three Super Bowls and been to five Super Bowls over the last 12 years.

The Patriots have suffered only ONE losing season in the Belichick era and that was during his first year as the teams head coach. If Belichick is getting too cute on draft day, as you suggest. I think it is time that Ireland follow suit and gets cute himself. Because based on Belichick's record, compared to the record of the Dolphins since Ireland became the GM four years ago, I will take cute over whatever Ireland has been doing.

 

Again you keep saying "all you need". I didn't say that. I said the most important cog.

I can have solid to great QB play with a less than mediocre defense and be in the SB. See Giants. See Pats.

 

which works fine in a vacuum . Except reality says different. both the pats and the giants d's were top ranked in the preseason. granted I think thats dependent on who the pats played, but I think the giants defense stepped it up.

 

Nope. No way. Not happening. Oh hell no.

You don't get to bust out a preseason ranking AND tell me what I said works fine in a vacuum. I don't care how many times you've picked up the check at one our candle-lit dinners and then would let me be the big spoon to your little spoon.

End of season ranking trumps preseason ranking. All the time. Every time. Without fail. You're ugly.

 

i meant postseason.
and you have more of a twisted spork thing going. stoopid.

 

Thanks for the new title above my avatar.

 

And yet here we are having an O vs D debate because the Pats couldn't get it done in the last 2 minutes on either side of the ball.

I think this debate could go on forever, and everyone can make great points, but it all boils down to personal preference. Some feel that offense is what puts teams over the top, some feel it is defense, others feel it is a balance, and in that case it breaks down to successful execution. Teams that successfully execute their scheme on both sides of the ball tend to be winners, teams that don't execute on both sides, aren't winners.

 

The thing is when you have a high scoring offense your defense in general will give up more points because your offense is scoring so quickly giving the other team chances against a tired defense.

However that doesn't mean you don't need a defense that can create turnovers and especially a defense that can play in the clutch. When two top QB's are going at it often the team that makes a defensive play will win. You still need both.

 

jw, you don't think I favor irish even over the cheater do you? If that's the case then you haven't been paying attention to my sig. As far as their records & play-off appearances goes, what type of roster do they have without brady? And no you can't mention what M.Cassel did in '08 because they had veterans contributing on that squad including:

Seymour
B.Watson
Moss
Bruschi
Izzo
Vrabel
H.Evans
R.Harrison
Meriweather
E.Hobbs
Gaffney

They haven't had these type of players since. idk, be it Pioli's absence(yes his early KC track record isn't stellar) or the cheater's unwillingness to pay high salaries, the fact remains they've done a horrible job of acquiring talent especially considering the windfall of picks.

 

Haven't enjoyed watching a SB this much since the Giants ruined the Patsies "perfect" record the 2007 SB. (Or was it 08?)