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***Official 2011-12 MLB HOTSTOVE OFF-SEASON THREAD***

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by BigDogsHunt, Oct 29, 2011.

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  1. Dec 17, 2011 #641
    Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I don't think Alonso and Volquez would have been enough for Latos, who's under control for 4 years. It definitely seems like a 'win' for the Padres. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rizzo/Alonso now flipped to Seattle, Cubs or Tampa Bay soon.
     
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  2. Dec 17, 2011 #642
    BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Yeah, obviously it took more, and again CIN was in position to offer more....good job by SD to get this 4 for 1.

    And I think Cincy did get the best SP in the deal.
     
  3. Dec 17, 2011 #643
    Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    SD did get some really, really good pieces. It was a great trade for both teams.
     
  4. Dec 17, 2011 #644
    padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Again, we will be even worse this season, we trade away the young vets who should be our core, for suspects who may or may not pan out.

    If we move Rizzi, that would be a great time to call the Gonzo trade what it was...a ripoff.
     
  5. Dec 17, 2011 #645
    BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    I would take those four over Latos to establish a winning tradition everyday of the week. I see no reason to move Rizzi or Alonso just yet.
     
  6. Dec 17, 2011 #646
    padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We've peddled 2 starters BDH, petco covers a lot of mistakes but we gave away a whole bunch of innings and wins and have not replaced them as of yet which is sort of the story in SD.
     
  7. Dec 17, 2011 #647
    BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Dont undersell Volquez....he will do great in Petco...and your bats just got a solid jump start for years to come especially with Alonzo.

    Plus you grab an extra solid bullpen/closer arm for future, and a young promising catcher too.

    I think the surplus can help you going forward. Who knows what the next move is with Rizzo, and yes, Sox took advantage but that was a known at the time.
    • Byrnes said that the Padres view Yonder Alonso as a first base candidate and not as a left fielder, Crasnick tweets. Right now, it appears that Alonso and Jesus Guzmanwill duke it out for the job in Spring Training (Twitter link).
    • For the time being, it seems that the Padres' current plan is to slot Alonso in at first and have Rizzo go back to Triple-A, tweets Crasnick. Byrnes admits that the deal will probably be a tough pill to swallow for Anthony Rizzo, tweets Scott Miller of CBSSports.com.
    • The Padres GM says that he won't rule out another trade, but he is comfortable with his team's surplus of offensive players, Crasnick writes (via Twitter).
    • Newcomer Yasmani Grandal will be given more time in the minors,
     
  8. Dec 17, 2011 #648
    padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Which more or less means, Rizzo is seen as a bust BDH, which someone mentioned awhile ago....they should peddle him as sending him to AAA ball accomplishes nothing, it is well established he tears up AAA pitching.
     
  9. Dec 17, 2011 #649
    Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lmao, a bust? He destroyed Triple A pitching last season, and he's only 21.
     
  10. Dec 17, 2011 #650
    BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Exactly, and while Latos is 24, he has his own set of question marks.

    Volquez is 28, Alonso is 25, Grandal is 23, and Boxberger is 23. Take those along with 22 year old Rizzo and you not only improve the team depth of talent, you increase chips that can be traded if needed.

    this is a total win, and thinking Rizzo at that age has maxed his value regardless if the trade with Sox was more in the Sox favor than the Padres at the time is spilt milk. Giving Rizzo more time is the right answer.

    Nope, SD improved themselves, and folks that root for them have to demand more trades like this one....
     
  11. Dec 17, 2011 #651
    padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Then why trade for a roadblock at his position?

    BDH's twitter quote sums it up, Rizzo won't be happy..really he should be because he's probably leaving SD's organization
     
  12. Dec 17, 2011 #652
    Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because you traded away Matt Latos and wanted their best prospect back in return, who can also play Left Field?
     
  13. Dec 17, 2011 #653
    Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Calling anyone a bust because of 153 plate appearances is not only short sighted but completely silly.

    It's the same reason why we don't put someone like Shane Spencer in the Hall of Famer after just 73 plate appearances. Seriously look at his rookie year, then the rest of his career: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/spencsh01.shtml

    It's called a small sample size, let's give Rizzo some more time before we can really judge him.

    EDIT: Just wasting time on baseballreference.com but check out these couple of players that had a tough few 100 PAs in their career:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/thomeji01.shtml
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ramirma02.shtml
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/u/utleych01.shtml
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzaad01.shtml
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rodrial01.shtml
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/konerpa01.shtml
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sheffga01.shtml

    I guess they were busts too?

    Obviously I'm not saying Rizzo is going to be a HOFer (or even as good as these players) but it just goes to show you sometimes players don't to the MLB and start hitting like a Pujols or Braun. Baseball is hard, it takes time. Patience can be a great thing sometimes.
     
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  14. Dec 17, 2011 #654
    padre31

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    Saying he is not going to play LF, said he was going to play first base.
     
  15. Dec 18, 2011 #655
    Anonymous

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    Because Rizzo is going back to the minors, most likely. So Alonso will be playing first base.
     
  16. Dec 18, 2011 #656
    padre31

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    Thusly the roadblock comment.
     
  17. Dec 18, 2011 #657
    Anonymous

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    Its not a road block because Alonso could move to LF when Rizzo comes up...
     
  18. Dec 18, 2011 #658
    BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Davie
    Typical overpaying for a guy that wasn't really being shopped.
     
  19. Dec 18, 2011 #659
    finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    While I dont disagree with the Pads whould have got more.....is it a rip-off if that trade allowed you to net Garza?

     
  20. Dec 18, 2011 #660
    finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    ...
     
  21. Dec 18, 2011 #661
    padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Problem is FY, as soon as Rizzo leaves the system, the failure of the AGone trade is cemented into place, we wind up with Kelly, a mediocre SP who semi struggled in AA ball, we traded a Franchise type of player and the key piece is out of the organization in just over a yr.

    That is ****ty GM work.
     
  22. Dec 18, 2011 #662
    BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    That GM is in CHI-LAND with his BFF! move on....move on! :tongue2:
     
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  23. Dec 18, 2011 #663
    padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Bastard!

    :lol:

    Good point though, had forgotten Hoyer got out of dodge and headed to Chicago like a shady bank mgr the night before the audit...:lol:
     
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  24. Dec 18, 2011 #664
    BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    SD has Xtra trade chips to work a SP out of TB or Cubsville. Thats the beauty of this 4-1 deal. Nice additions and depth to move extra parts (when is the last time SD had EXTRA parts) and land another TOP of the ROTATION arm for NL West especially.

    You have Xtra Catchers, and Xtra OF to move, and again, they could move Alonso or Rizzo in a package deal......or......they could keep both as neither is 100% blocking the other from having both in the lineup at the same time with Alonso position flexibility if that is proved in ST.

    Keep in mind, SD just acquired 4 1st round drafted players for Latos (technically 3, plus Volquez in Intl FA). I dont know how you can ask for anything more in a single trade.
     
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  25. Dec 18, 2011 #665
    Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly a hot stove item, but cool story. I went to an upper class night club in Tampa Friday for a friends birthday. Met a few Rays players including David Price. Really nice guy, hated to bother him but huge Rays fan so I couldn't help it. I also seen, but didn't meet, Gary Sheffield and Deon Sanders. Pretty cool.
     
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  26. Dec 18, 2011 #666
    BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Davie

    stop
     
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  27. Dec 18, 2011 #667
    Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Cool story, Price seems like a good guy.
     
  28. Dec 19, 2011 #668
    BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    small deals this weekend:

    The Orioles and Endy Chavez have agreed to a one-year, $1.5MM major league deal. The deal will also give the outfielder the chance to earn another $500K through performance bonuses.


    The Diamondbacks have signed outfielder Jason Kubel, tweets Tom Krasovic. Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports confirms the agreement, which is for two years with an option. Jon Heyman of CBS Sports says the deal is worth $15MM.
     
  29. Dec 19, 2011 #669
    finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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  30. Dec 19, 2011 #670
    Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    BTW, I hope the Rays make a run at Rizzo.
     
  31. Dec 19, 2011 #671
    BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    The Nationals have agreed to sign outfielder Mike Cameron, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). Terms of the deal are unknown at this point.
     
  32. Dec 19, 2011 #672
    Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Psssh he's a bust. Why would they want to waste their time with him when they could use Dan Johnson?
     
  33. Dec 19, 2011 #673
    Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Lol true.
     
  34. Dec 20, 2011 #674
    finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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  35. Dec 20, 2011 #675
    BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    For all the hand-wringing over the new CBA and how it hurts true FA INTL signings, I have to say this Japan League "posting fee" has to be the most antiquated and ridiculous system MLB has ever put in place.

    Paying ridiculous amounts to the Japan league club, just for the RIGHT to only then negotiate and pay the bogusly-labeled FA player more on top of that club fee is silly. But stupid is what stupid does. Go for it Rangers, guess someone has to try to prove the precedent isnt clear as day when it comes to wasting money on Japanese League arms and thinking they are the saving grace to a rotation.

    This system is illogical for the "good of the game" and "controlling costs" for unproven MLB talent. Talk about removing the "smaller revenue teams" from fair and open competition to secure the talent. Fix this system next go round.

    If any one thing should have changed about FA and INTL players helping fix and improve competition and control costs to be level playing field this posting fee craziness should have been covered.
     
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  36. Dec 20, 2011 #676
    BlameItOnTheHenne

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    51 million to negotiate? oy
     
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  37. Dec 20, 2011 #677
    finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    yeah it is mindblogging this is the method in place....

    just glad NY didnt do it...
     
  38. Dec 20, 2011 #678
    finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    To put this in perspective....

    If he gets 6yrs 75M...like he is asking...the Rangers will be paying what the Phillies paid for Cliff Lee.
     
  39. Dec 20, 2011 #679
    BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Add to the fact that he'll be pitching in Texas, which is a launching pad.
     
  40. Dec 20, 2011 #680
    finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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