There is free agency and other rounds of the draft in which to find 2 o-linemen. We have three good pieces there already, depending on your view of Incognito. You are worried about the easiest position to fill (guard) at the expense of the toughest position to fill (QB) Or in Saban parlance, you're concerned about mouse droppings when there is elephant s*** on the floor
Carl peterson = were not getting Cowher, Gruden, or FISHER most likely. I'm seriously thinking this team is set for another tail-spinning off season of cluster**** proportions.
What makes you think that? Carl Peterson has direct connections to Bill Cowher and is probably the most connected executive this team can hire this offseason. The general feelings about Carl Peterson within the NFL community is much different than what some fans perceive him as. The guy turned around a complete mess in Kansas City hired a very good head coach starting out, and drafted very well. Heck, Carl Peterson is the biggest reason Jim Harbaugh was interviewed last year. He's the guy that arranged for Jim and Stephen Ross to meet. Why? Because Carl and Jack Harbaugh go way back.
Did. Not. Know that. Very interesting revelation, Keith. Really my only gripe with King Carl is his penchant for the veteran quarterback. It was not just a coincidence in Kansas City. It was a belief, a practice, it became well known that he preferred veterans. The Dolphins are just about set to end up picking in the top 10 of the NFL Draft for really only the 9th time in franchise history. We've had a #1 overall, a #2 overall, a #4 overall, a #7 overall, a #8 overall and three #9 overall picks. We took two tackles (Jake Long, Richmond Webb), three tailbacks (Larry Csonka, Sammie Smith and Ronnie Brown), a wide receiver (Ted Ginn), a defensive back (Troy Vincent) and a quarterback (Bob Griese). Miami could conceivably even end up picking in the top 5, if we lose this weekend to the Bills, and we lose to the Patriots and Jets. That's only happened three other times. One of those times, we got a Hall of Fame quarterback. The other two times, we passed up on Aaron Rodgers and Matt Ryan even though they were dead center on our radar screen. It's imperative that we not screw this up. If we've got a chance at a franchise quarterback you can't pass it up in favor of a veteran that you think can help you win right now, because then you win ball games (but not championships) and you're picking too low to get a valid whack at future franchise quarterbacks. You're stuck in the same doldrums the Chiefs were all those years under Peterson, the same doldrums the Dolphins generally have been this decade. If Carl Peterson is to be hired, then he need to be hired on condition that he allow Jeff Ireland to find and if necessary trade up for the best quarterback he can realistically get his hands on in this Draft. PERIOD. And yes, I'd let Jeff Ireland decide which quarterback is the best before I let Carl Peterson decide that. Never thought I'd say that. Better yet, please hire an outside specialist with a proven record to evaluate this year's QB class. Not sure I trust either of those two with that decision, even if it appears that Jeff Ireland may agree with me about Matt Barkley.
And more importantly were would it leave the Franchise in the long run if he fails? I get that "well everyone says he is the best evahh!!!" Reality is, maybe he is concussion prone, maybe he slips in the shower and breaks his hip etc, won't matter because if he washes out we are the Lions for the next 5-7 yrs. That is just to much risk to take on to a franchise with question marks imo.
As odd as this may sound, we would be better off picking #15 with Ireland/Peterson in Miami, the reason being they could trade up or try, and land their guy, but if we pick that highly you have to wonder if the "we have to get a player we know will contribute for yrs and yrs" comes into play. Peterson had high #1 picks on a couple of occasions: 1988 Neil Smith 1989 Derrick Thomas
Sound to me like we are taking our chance at a quick rebuild and a shot at the possible young franchise quarterback we have needed for over a decade and pissing it all away for King Carl. I'm beginning to doubt the sanity of our owner. Oh well, 5 years of King Carl spinning his wheels might lead to another rebuild and another regime.
At some point we have to swing for the fences. I mean honestly, we've had a 1-15 season and a slew of median 7-9, 8-8, seasons. How much more irrelivant could we possibly get. In today's AFC you've got to win 11 to make the playoffs. Not a big margin for error, and we aren't going to get there doing what we've been doing.
This would be so embarrassingly pathetic that it would loop back around to encouragingly awesome. Let’s do it.
No, its not putting a good QB prospect on a bad team. Its putting the best QB prospects since Peyton Manning on an average team that has caught some really bad breaks this year. You are what your record says you are but you dont go from average to awful without reasons and those reasons are clear: poor QB play and poor coaching. You dont think Brady covers up holes for New England? Look at how bad their pass defense is and explain to me why theyre still winning games. What about Rodgers and Green Bay? Those are two of the worst defensive teams in the league right now. You can also look at a team like Baltimore and ask what holds them back when they have all the rest of the pieces and the answer is inconsistent QB play. They cant throw it like other teams can on a consistent basis. The way the rules have made it, its a QB league now and to continue to be in denial of that is crazy bro. As it is we are entering Lions territory. We have been a bad or average team every year but one since the last year of the Wannstedt era. How do you change that cycle? Change your philosophies and your thinking. The definition of stupidity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results and the entire time we have been stuck in mediocrity we have have had average or below average QB play save for the one great year from Pennington which, funny story, coincides with the 1 successful year we had! Im sorry Pads but how anyone can deny this is beyond the realm of logic. Seriously, the only team on par with needing a QB as badly as Miami is Washington. And look at how they almost mirror each other. Every other team in the league has either invested a high pick in a QB or traded a high pick for one or found one through sheer luck. If you would like to wait for the fairy godmother to drop us a QB then fine. I am sick of waiting and of all the years to be aggressive for an elite prospect, this is it. It is a hefty price to pay, no question. But there's still free agency. There are still UDFA's to be had. There are still trades you can make. There is still the maturation of some of the players we have on the roster. There are still ways to get better. The only way Im not throwing everything at a team to get Barkley or Luck is if Osweiler declares and the likelihood of us landing an elite QB prospect increases giving us less reason to make that kind of bold move.
Now this bothers me, Manning? Brady? You do realize they are HoF Qb's and Andrew Luck has not done a damn thing in the NFL..right? Remove the hype, the comparisions, and be objective, Luck boils down to a Qb PROSPECT, this leap of faith treated as fact is one of the most bizzare things I do believe I've read. "He's Super Luck!, he blocks blitzers, he catches his own passes, why he even kicks field goals! I tellz ya, he is amazing, put his statue up now, put him in the HoF right now!" Put aside all of that and see that the 3 #1's and 3#2's is worth 5 #1 picks for him, coming to a team that has won what..19 games in 3 yrs?
That's the point. Luck is not what I consider just another #1 QB prospect. I wouldn't trade all that for any of the other guys. IMO Luck's odds of success is so high that I accept the risk. A risk I consider to be minimal. I don't expect super luck. I expect a franchise QB. And yes, a franchise QB is somebody that does cover up many deficiencies.
The problem is you are putting Luck on par with any other #1 pick QB or any other QB prospect. Luck is not Alex Smith, Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, or Cam Newton. He comes with less questions or risk then any of them. So does Barkley in my opinion. I dont think you truly grasp how good these two guys are. Luck is the first QB given a 99 rating by Scouts Inc since Peyton Manning. Either one is good enough to have gone #1 over in any draft since Eli Manning was drafted. This is not Drew Bledsoe and Rick Mirer. This is two beasts that have few if any deficiencies to their game outside of deep ball accuracy which as CK and Rafael have at various points stated represents at most 10% of the throws these guys will make and is one of the things that quarterbacks typically improve upon as time goes on. I respect your opinion Pads but honestly if we gave up the next three drafts to secure one of those two by all means DO IT! Franchise QB's usually last 10 years at least. Plenty of time to build a winner but you may wait another 10 years before you see a QB of this caliber!
And he can just as easily suffer from post concussion syndrome after his first handful of games B14. This is where the "do whatever you have to!!" to land him sounds great on the internet, and he may be a truly great player, if he isn't, you've just ruined your franchise for yrs to come, not 1 draft, yrs. Colts were horrible at the right times, thems the breaks.
Those are the chances you take. Thats the chance you take with any pick, with any player on the field. Should the Saints not give Brees a new contract with those risks?
Might as well disband the team if they bring in this clueless bozo. I don't care how good he was back in the 80s and 90s, he was awful the last decade or so.
Do you mean like the last several years? We already have several years of bad drafts. We've already had several years of a ruined franchise. If we don't get a franchise QB, then the most we can reasonably hope for is a year or two relevancy followed by mediocrity or worse. I believe there are several QBs in this draft with franchise potential, but I'll pay extra for the one that is closest to a sure thing. That doesn't just make sense on the Internet. That makes sense anywhere.
parachuting a good Qb prospect onto a "ruined franchise" will of course change fortunes of said franchise. There will be 28 team "mired in mediocrity" after the Championship games are set, should they all then trade their entire drafts for Andrew Luck? Are good teams built that way? What was the last team that worked for?
Pick(s), and 3 yrs worth of them. Not just one pick, the heart of 3 drafts, look at what the Bears are dealing with now, they had their run with Cutler, now the lack of depth is killing them, they traded those picks away only they were much further along in terms of a core team. We have avg at best depth and questionble starters. Add in, once again, you compare a HoF quality Qb to a rook Qb who has not even stepped onto a practice field, therein is one of the issues.
Indy was built that way. Denver as well. That's the power of a franchise QB. Look at NE without Brady. Their talent an depth is marginal. I would actually take our roster over theirs if you exclude Brady.
The thing is, we already have decent depth, we just dont have a QB. There are certainly some other holes...SS, RG, RT, OLB, TE depth but there is still free agency, there is still trades that can be made, there is still players who can further develop on the roster. Again, great QB's have a shelf life of 10+ years but you may not see another prospect this NFL ready as Luck and Barkley for another 10 years. If you want an elite QB its going to cost you. If I need to move 3 drafts Id do it. I dont think we will need to move more then 1 draft personally to move for Luck and potentially less for Barkley but either way Im all in. And for the record, I was comparing situations not players. You said that the investment being made in Luck in terms of picks isnt worth it (paraphrased). I said so the saints shouldnt resign Brees because of the monetary investment (paraphrased). Your concerns about injury are valid all the same in both instances. It can happen to any player any time so based on what youre saying you wouldnt make a substantial monetary investment in a player either because of the risks correct? The problem is youre treating Luck and Barkley like any other prospect and theyre not in my opinion. Theyre better. Better then Newton, Ponder and all the rest last year. Better then Bradford and Stafford the years before. Its not particularly close either in my opinion.
Wait, what? The Bears WOULD have been in the playoffs this year if Cutler does not get hurt (not that they would get past the Saints or Packers, but no shame in that). They will be in the hunt for the playoffs AGAIN in 2012 if Jay stays healthy -that's what having a upper tier QB does for a team. Look, even if you give the best part of three drafts for a QB, you'll have another 8+ years (if no serious injuries, but that is always a risk) to build the team around that QB with full drafts. You can start with a poor talent team but as long as you have a good QB to build around things will turn around quickly. Yes, it's a risk to go all in for a QB, but if Miami keeps doing what hasn't worked for the past 10+ years? Get used to more years of 7 to 9 win seasons. Try to get a Franchise QB, keep trying until you get one, don't settle for a "game manager". If we got Luck and he failed? I'd be looking to draft another QB in 2015 and willing to use extra picks to get the best guy.
And BTW I actually don't think it would take all those picks to pry the number 1 away from Indy. I was just saying that I would pay even that exorbitant amount as worst case scenario that Padre invented. My guess is that if Manning was healthy (that's the key), that we could offer something like 2 #1s and Davis and they would take it, especially if our #1 was in the top 5 this year.
