I got a bad feeling this qb class is going to get alot weaker

course u used teh 3 wins which were vs bad defenses which in teh question posed, take out those 3 games vs bad defenses where he was not under any pressure and coverage was poor and then ask yourself vs competent defenses how did he play?

and yes it takes time to gel unfortunately if are granting moore time to gel, then henne gets the same consideration. in a new offense with new rbs, a reconfigured oline and a whole brand new scheme. so dont use teh gelling if you arent with henne who played much better competition. NE def is poor and Henne lit them up. too bad the def failed to show. Hou Henne made mistakes but Marshall dropped 1 to 2 tds in that game that changes the game. henne had a bad game vs a good def in clev but we were winning the last couple minutes and def blew late lead. Moore had us ahead vs den and giants, had good an bad throws in those games but had us in pos to win but def didnt come thru. Basically they both played well and Moore may end up with teh edge on Henne when all said and done, I dont doubt that, but to say Moore has shown head and shoulders over henne is laughable imo. TO ME, it is a simple case of exhuiborance over Henne being gone that anything was better. But moore has shown NO FRANCHISE potential to me.

And yes the draft is risk, but you cant win big unless you go big. You dont go to vegas and bet small expecting to win big mnoney, you slow bet you can come out ahead, but not change your life ahead. to win that big, you have to bet big.

 

Henne didnt play KC, Buf either. Moore hasnt done that vs any decent defense either

 

http://www.thephins.com/forums/showthread.php?66974-2011-MMoore-v-Pennington-s-2008-season

MMoore is slightly outplaying Pennington's 08 season.

Dallas was the #10 D, DC was the #14, he played well enough to win both games.

 

Henne's problem, in short, is he did not produce Td's passing the ball, it really is that simple when we got to the RZ he did not have the skill to come away with the TD, we kicked FG's, it happened for 3 seasons, chances are really good, that is what he is, MMoore or not it is time to move on from him.

 

What?? He's out playing 2008 Penny?!? Are you.....huh?

 

Yessir, crazy I know, but if one just looks at their performances, MMoore, especially over the last 4 gms, is out playing Pennington from that yr.

When we look back at 08, we tend to forget that CP and the offense was not very good to begin 2008:

first four games:

14 pts
10 pts
17 pts
38 pts (first Wildcat game)

MMoore is having a similar yr to Pennington's 08, down to struggling his first 3 games.

 

So what about Moore this season is outplaying 08 penny?

 

If the rookie QB class does turn out to be poor, I'd hate to see us spend a high first rounder on a QB anyway, just because we need one. I'd be okay with getting Weeden with the second rounder, or moving up a bit to grab him at the end of the first round.

I'll be watching how Matt Leinart does the rest of the season too. He has very good situation with the Texans, and should guide them into the playoffs and a postseason win or two. I think he will be a FA next year, so if he does well.... Should we look at bringing him in and spending the draft on filling the hole at RT, Safety, pass rushing OLB, etc.? If Matt has matured and is serious about football he can be a good QB.

I think Moore will show himself to be a solid #2 type QB as we finish out the season and face some better teams than the first three he played.

 

QBR (over the last 4, do not have the stats for his gms vs SD/NYJ/Denver/NYG) and 7 to 1 Td to int ratio in the last 4.

He has almost caught Penny's 08 in terms of YPG, since the Giants gm, MMoore has been fire NappyR

As for MM v Henne, put it this way, his "bad" gm vs Dallas, would be considered a great gm for Henne.

 

Good god no.

 

I'm not going to fault anyone for being worried about who comes out and who does not.

But I'll say this. Matt Barkley has always stated that whether he comes out or not depends on how he finishes the year and he wants the decision to be 'easy'. What he meant by that is, if it becomes obvious that he's either the best QB in the Draft or second best behind Luck, and an obvious top 5 or top 10 pick, he's coming out. On that basis, I don't see reason to be pessimistic all the sudden about Barkley staying in school based on what's happened over the last few weeks. He's had EXACTLY the performance he wanted and had in mind when he said he wants the decision to be easy. He couldn't ask for better, aside from maybe a triple overtime WIN against Stanford rather than a triple overtime LOSS...but you can't tab that on him since it was McNeal who coughed up the fumble in overtime. Aside from all that, you had to see the interaction between Barkley, the fans, the players, and between Barkley and Kiffin. I saw in Kiffin's face sort of a resigned mix of feelings of I wish he'd stay but I'm extremely happy for him and I think he'll go. It takes a pretty dastardly coach to try and convince a consensus top 5 or top 10 pick to come back to school, and while Kiffin is not known for being very scrupulous, I think he loves Barkley enough that he won't push him in the wrong direction too hard. He'll make the obvious case, that we could win a championship if you come back...but he's not going to pull what Pete Carroll did with Mark Sanchez because Barkley has done more, is much more experienced, and has given more to the program than Sanchez did when Mark made the decision to come out...a decision Carroll didn't agree with.

I'll also say this. I had been pessimistic that Robert Griffin will stay in school. Not anymore. I think what happened this weekend changes things. He got knocked out of the game with a concussion, and Baylor burned their redshirt on QB Nick Florence by putting him in the game in place of Griffin. And you also had to see the interaction between Griffin and the coach, and the players...it seemed like a swan song type interaction. They seemed like they knew RG3 was leaving. And they're cool with that, because they have something in Nick Florence that gives them hope to continue winning. When Nick Florence came in the 2nd half the score was 31-28 in Baylor's favor. He led them to score another 35 points to a 66-42 finish. He actually outperformed Robert Griffin in that game. That's setting up to be a situation much like in Arkansas last year where the Arkansas people hated to see Ryan Mallett go, but knew they had something in Tyler Wilson behind him.

And in the mean time you have Brock Osweiler in Arizona State very much up in the air, where you wouldn't have necessarily expected him to be until this weekend. Dennis Erickson is now expected to be fired as Head Coach of Arizona State. As Alen has brought up, does that mean Noel Mazzone takes off too? He's the offensive coordinator there and helped develop Phil Rivers at NC State. If he's gone, Osweiler could send his tapes in to the scouts, they could see all that ridiculous physical talent and say 2nd round, and he could try and take his chances at performing in the NFLPA's brand new Junior Bowl over in Los Angeles, measuring extremely well at the Combine of course because of what a specimen he is, and seeing if he can't supplant Landry Jones as the 3rd rated QB in the class. He has to have seen how last year there were 4 QBs that went in the top 12 picks. Ryan Tannehill certainly didn't help his case this weekend against Texas. Nor did Landry Jones help himself against Iowa State. And a week ago, some of the shine also came off Brandon Weeden with the surprise loss to Iowa State.

Bottom line is, a couple of weeks ago I was barely even mentioning Osweiler. The reason was he just didn't look likely to come out. When I mentioned him I only did so being thorough, to let everyone know that yeah, I do feel like there's a stud waiting in the wings for next year. Now all the sudden, I think there's a legit chance he could come out. And at the same time, a couple of weeks ago I was thinking Barkley is 50/50 on coming out, and Griffin more like 30/70. Now, I think they're both out. Not even placing odds on it anymore, I think they're both out. And Landry Jones to me has always been likely to come out.

And so there's a legit chance that this year I'll have five or six quarterbacks rated as 1st round worthy quarterbacks, and a total of nine quarterbacks rated as worthy of at least 3rd round standing. They won't all go there, I don't think. Things tend to be relative and so the NFL will space them out. But between Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley, Brock Osweiler, Brandon Weeden, Landry Jones, Ryan Tannehill, Nick Foles, Robert Griffin and Ryan Lindley...you have guys that could be going in the 2nd round that might normally go in the 1st round, and guys that could go in the 4th round that might normally go in the 2nd or 3rd round. And that's without even mentioning Kirk Cousins and Russell Wilson.

 

I thought I was the only one around here who likes Moore.
I know I like him more than anyone else. I think he will be very good QB in the NFL. Very good.

 

Just out of curiosity, is that random listing or is that a list based on rank?

 

Let me get this straight, your saying Moore is having a better season because your taking the last 4 games into account and none others? Am I correct?

That's ridiculous. If you want to go by QB rating, Penny's QBR was 13 points higher then Moore's this year. Moore is playing well, but to say better then 08 Penny is false.

 

Penny finished at 97.5, MMoore is up around 113 over the last 4, for the yr he is at 87.8 with 5 gms left including 3 against poor pass D's in philly, buffalo and new england.

MMoore avg's 2 Td's over the last 5, he will come 2 short of matching Penny's 08 totals.

He is playing as well as Penny did in 08, believe it, or not his performance is maybe 5% short of what Penny did that yr, but he still has 5 gms to work with in 2011.

If one has access to game by game stats for Penny in 08, I'd be more then happy to show the comparison in more then general terms, but either way, that would be a "yes" Nappy R, like it or not, MMoore is outplaying Penny's 08.

 

if you want to view your opinions as the almighty opinion go ahead, you want to view your interretation of events as gospel go ahead, if you want to truly read what someone said, well how how novel of you.

Excuses for Henne, LMAO off. I dont and never did make excuses for him. Laughable and inexcusable are those that transpose their hate on hi w/o substance. He is what he is, an avg qb that can win if he is a component of a functioning offense but ask him to be the guy to carry it, isnt happening. Which is the point of my argumenty, it is excusing nor defending henne, it is pointing out that while Moore may end up marginally better than Henne and I blieve he is slightly better simply because he moves better and has better touch accuracy. he isnt anymore a franchise qb than Henne. Now if you believe Moore is a franchyise qb than good for you, I dont.

I said teh same thing defending fiedler ten yrs ago and got called a fieldler lover. Whic I wasnt, I said that if you wanted a avg to slightly above avg qb stay with Fieldler and that he was tougher, smarter than anyone they brought in to replace him. That we should upgrade him, but taking other team castoffs isnt teh long term solution, you get franchise qbs via the draft. we had 1 very rare opportunity to get one FA and were lucky he was under an injury cloud that he was available but stupid we passed and that was Brees. But that is extremely rare. You want a franchise qb, you make the invest and draft one, in rd 1. You dont see a guy in rd 2 or 3 or 4 and say we can live teh flaws, (yeah i know most teams say they can develop them and teach them, but we dont do that) drafting Henne you knew what he was, so design teh system for him and teach him, nope not what we did. Beck? well we killed that kid, throw him to the wolves on a horrid team with street fa rbs wr that make you laugh. what do you expect? You as a team have to know what you are getting, and I am not sure they did or were so arrogant that thyey thought the mere fact they were on thsi team made them better. I dont know but we have not went full in on a qb since Wanny went all in with Fiedler.

Draft a dam qb stop hoping that a castoff or a non 1st rd qb will be adequate. Adequate isnt enough, we need to go big, go for broke, even if they fail, at least they showed they have a clue how important teh qb is

 

I expect this year to be the best QB draft in decades. I'm sure that some will drop out and some will get added in, but the net result will still be a spectacular QB draft. And the Dolphins should do everything in their power to land one of these studs. The few who are deluding themselves and trying to convince others that Moore is some sort of an answer are making the same mistake they made with Orton.

 

That's just terrile logic IMO. Believe what you want, numbers are clear who was better, i don't care enough to debate that subject.

 

Fine with me, especially with 5 gms left, when all is said and done, say by wk gm #14, it will become apparent to even you nappy.

 

The only way we should pass on a Qb in this draft is:

-New HC likes Matt Moore
-a certified blue chip prospect at a position of need falls into our laps.

For example say we pick #10 overall, and Justin Blackmon is there, I'd think long and hard about it.

 

He does have more reasons to stay than go (Barkley)....they all are coming back pretty much....that freshman WR is the real deal....he is only like 30 TDs or so from the All Time USC record....they will have a legit shot at a BCS Bowl game.....

The only thing that is working in Miami's favor is this new CBA and the rookie salary cap structure......he will be top 5 this year, next year he is probably the Number 1 pick.....the dollars arent that much of a difference from this year to next I would imagine....and maybe if Miami is sitting there at the end of the season, he likes the idea of going to a warm weather tax free franchise eh?

 

If the new HC did that I would start the fire him band wagon immediately.

 

Why not just keep Matt Moore, who's under contract, and draft a guy?

He's been a better pro than Leinart anyway IMO.

 

I want to clarify something when I say Moore=henne, Henne=Moore, I am not comparing the 2. I do believe for this offense and team Moore>Henne comparing the 2. BUT, a big BUT, not so significantly better that he moves out of teh qb clssification that includes Henne. that is the list of avg qbs. He isnt a franchise qb. I just dont see how you say he is at this point. To gamble on that and pass on what could be the best qb class in years is ludacrous imo

 

I have no issues with keeping Moore as a short term starter/backup to the drafted qb. As long as their is a drafted qb

 

Opportunity costs Muck, which is a concept this current Regime does not grasp.

Say 5 needs to be filled, the higher the order of resources you use to fill any one of them, you diminish the pool of resources to plug the other 4 needs, which is one of my dislikes about the Pouncey pick.

 

saying matt moore is just as accurate as pennington is a joke. can't take anyone who says that seriously.

 

Taking a glass half full attitude this class could get even better than expected .Its rumored Erickson will be fired which will probably will make Osweiler available for the draft.There are other players who could declare that are not expected to do so at this point.

 

I can't believe there are people arguing against drafting a quarterback. I don't care WHO is available where we pick, if there is a first round worthy quarterback there we take him, end of story.

 

That's kind of the question though, isn't it?

Say Luck and Barkley are unavailable as they go #1 and #2 overall, Brock Osweiler doesn't come out, the Dolphins are picking at #5 overall. What would you do? You think Landry Jones is worth that? Ryan Tannehill?

 

At that point it’s time to emotionally detach one’s self from the team’s fortunes. Or hope they can trade a 2 to New England for Mallett.

 

Dont over value the quaterback if hes not worth the pick get a safety/pass rusher worth the pick or trade down.

 

I don't know where I would take Landry Jones. I like him and think he'll do well. I know he had some bad games recently, but he's still one of the top guys in the next draft.
And it was very windy during the game against Iowa State, so not easy to throw the ball. Let's see what happens against Oklahoma State next week.

 

I am sure USC would love Barkley to stay for his senior season. With him possibly being drafted in the top five picks, I have a strong feeling that he will opt to enter the draft. It would really surprise me if he decides to return to USC next year. There has been much speculation that Griffin will return to Baylor and not enter the draft. Most of this speculation was early in the college season when it was thought that Griffin would be a second or third round selection. Now that he is projected to go in the first ten picks, I think it is better then a 50% chance he will decide to enter the 2012 NFL draft.

Of course both players could stay in school and the Dolphins will certainly be affected if they do. I think Luck, Barkley and Griffin are the three best QB's in college right now and they are the three best prospects for the NFL, IMO. If none of these QB's are available when the Dolphins select in the first round, I hope the Dolphins use their first round selection on another position. I do not feel that any of the other QB's in the 2012 draft are franchise type QB's and taking one of the remaining QB's in the first round would be a total waste of this pick.

I would rather see the Dolphins draft Kellen Moore in the third round before they waste a first or second round pick on Jones, Tannehill, Weeden, or any of the other so called top QB's in the 2012 draft. Moore may not be a great NFL QB in the future, but I think he will have a better career than all the other QB's, except for Luck, Barkley, and Griffin.

 

no not a little sensitive, I am just tired of hearing from people that dont like Henne that I a making excuses for Henne, which is a fabrication or opinion but either way not true. The rest of the post wasnt only to you tho some of it was some of it was about those that think going forward with moore is an option. Henne was what he was a limited avg qb that worked hard and improved but not enough that you go forward with him. But that doesnt mean the offensive ills were the result of henne, he contributed sure, but so did marshall, so did d thomas being hurt, so did the oline. I also pointed out that if you are taking into account the need to gel as a factor as a poster did, then I said that goes for all, you cant pick and choose only things that are pro you.

As far as arguing Henne I have stated repeatedly that is dumb at this point as he is gone. I only ref him in relation to Moore who is also not a franchise qb as some are alluding to