Is Theo still here??? Wanted to send him a thank you note...should I mail it to his home address, or Cubs-ville to have the highest chance of it reaching him??
Good interview on EEI this morning with Luccino and Henry with D&C...about Theo....pretty pretty telling...I suggest you listen to it.... I didnt realize the 2 finals for the managing job with Tito got hired was Tito, and Madden.....
Why don't you get Brian Cashman to walk it over to him? He's not doing anything today, or tomorrow, or Sunday....
Yeah that hire came out of left field huh? Not sure if that's a good or bad choice really. No one probably does yet either.
You didn't miss anything, nothing was really said of any interest in my opinion. The only interesting tibits were the owners thought nutrition was a problem with the pitchers, Francona probably wasn't going to be back with the team next year even if they made the playoffs or if he asked to stay and they wouldn't comment on Theo being interviewed by the Cubs because it's not their policy to do so but they never expect Theo to be the GM forever (no kidding).
This has to be their highest priority, if they lose Pap, IDK I think their team suffers greatly....alot easier to say in October that Bard's the guy.....Just pay him, he isnt taking any hometown discount..... J
I have issues about paying any RPer not named Mo Rivera any real money for a long term contract. It just never ends well. With that being said I wouldn't have an issue if the Sox offer Papelbon a 3 year 36 million dollar deal but anything above that would just be crazy. Even then I think it would be over pay.
True, however the market is going to dictate that Fink, and 12 isn't cutting it IMO.....I mean hey hometown discount and it will be enough....would he stay for 12 though? Whats the backup plan if they let him walk Bard?
Then if I were the GM of the Sox (hey maybe I can be if Theo leaves!!!!) I'd let him walk then. Closers (minus Rivera) are simply overrated. Yeah I'd let Bard have a shot, or Jenks if he's healthy. Bard pitched poorly in September but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be good in the role. Or the Sox could sign a random RPer and see if he sticks. Hell Tampa Bay won the Wild Card with Kyle Farnsworth and Joel Peralta saving games for them. Last offseason either could have been had for a bag of sunflower seeds. There are actually a lot of closers on the market this offseason (Paps, K-Rod, Bell, Cordero) so it could hurt Papelbon too. If he becomes too expensive for a team they'd go with option B or C.
Yes and no, without a guy like Rivera, I don't know that the Yankees have even half of their titles...The Braves yakked this year, cuz the backend gave out...Det you could say in large part was successfully with Valverde...etc etc....CP are very important and not everybody is cut out for it......
I still have to disagree, closers are simply overrated because of 1 silly stat. Even the best closers have blown big games in the regular season and playoffs and teams with average closers have gone on to win in the regular and post seasons. Rivera is the rare exception. But as Nappy said Oakland used to make a habit out of getting a random no name RPer making him their closer, watch him save 40 games and then trading him away. Again look at TB, they haven't had a real closer in the past 4 years (remember Soriano wasn't a full time closer in Atlanta) and they've been fine. RPing is just so random. Farnsworth couldn't pitch well in New York or Detroit or Kansas City but he goes to TB and is unreal? Joel Peralta? Quick name another team he played for before this year.
Yeah I can see ur point, CP'ing is an art form, it is can you do it in the 9th inning, then it is can you do it in a major city, then it is can you do it in a pennant race? All things add up.....all I am saying is Pap has proven all of these, and locked it down in the Championship run as well....he is a proven commidity....unlike Bell, K-Rod, insert whoevers name here....to me that's worth a little more, and with all the loot coming off the books this year, they can easily afford him....plus they are losing Dice-K's contract next year...
I do think certain guys handle pressure better than others, I won't debate that but who's to say Papelbon is even the best RPer on the team? He certainly wasn't in 2010. And before September came around you could make a pretty good argument that Bard was better too. Who's to say Bard can't do the same if not better than Papelbon did/can? And he's a cheaper option too. Heck David Robertson was probably a top 5 RPer this year maybe even top 3 or 4, he was better than Rivera was. I just have a big problem paying a RPer big money and long term when histrocially they don't hold up well and there always seems to be a surprise on each team each year that pitches well in the pen. I think money spend on RPers can be better used in other areas. And this is coming from someone who loves Papelbon.
The Yankees are a posterboard on how NOT to spend money on RP'ers via FA....their best are either homegrown or from trades.... Paps IMO gets the nod because he has done it, and the experience...Bard has never done it...but no arguing the money it will take to sign him will be alot, and could be used for something else...
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7089985/theo-epstein-cusp-taking-job-chicago-cubs-report-says http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2011_1011headlinegoes/srvc=home&position=6
I can't/won't get too worked up over this Theo stuff until the deal is official. But IF it happens I would be shocked if Ben Cherrington doesn't become the next Sox GM.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...ein-agrees-to-a-five-year-deal-with-the-cubs/ Oh oh Domino (it's all right) Roll me over, Romeo, there you go Lord, have mercy I said oh-oh, Domino Roll me over, Romeo, there you go Say it again I said oh-ooh-oh Domino I said oh-ooh-ooh-oh Domino (Dig It)
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...unction-like-few-others-in-franchise-history/ There’s a long and rich history of the folks in the Red Sox organization casting blame, settling scores and throwing people under the bus after things have gone sideways on the field. It’s been a subdued dynamic for the past several years as success and a new professionalism has asserted itself, but with Terry Francona gone and Theo Epstein just about out the door, it has come roaring back. Bob Hohler’s story in today’s Boston Globe is a classic of the genre. He spoke with “individuals familiar with the Sox operation at all levels” who told him “a story of disunity, disloyalty, and dysfunction like few others in franchise history.” The knives are out and it’s kind of glorious in a sick way. this just gets better and better....seriously, its exactly what I thought would be the case in 2004, but somehow 2011 is so much crazier!!!!!
Ben Cherrington is from the same mold....this is really just changing names, and saving money....although nice payday for Theo....good for the Cubs too, would like to see them win it one day...
Because in 04, those guys were professionals, idiots yes, but professionals, Damon, Millar, Manny, etc.....those guys came to the ballpark and gave 100% percent...look at Damon today, the guy still runs out every damn ball he hits....
Saux would have still BLOWN up the '04 squad if properly swept....was on the brink of happening! Oh well, really seems sweeter for it to happen in 2011. Its a good and fun day already.....woot!
Hearing some B$ about lackey and beckett and some other picther drinking beer and playing video games while eating fried chicken in the clubhouse while games were going on this yr. My response is...so what? And they do not say whether or not that was a regular thing, a one time thing, or what have you. To me if you are going to allow your players to do those things it should be performance based, play hard you get to relax hard, if you are stinking up the place...that should not happen.
The difference between the 2004 team and the 2011 team is the '04 won while the '11 didn't. The 2004 team had plenty of issues that year with players (some of the issues were much more serious that ordering take out and playing video games during games) but no one cared because they won. Remember when the Sox took shots before playoff games in 2004 and no one cares? Yet now it's bad starting pitchers drank when they weren't pitching in the clubhouse. I'm not saying either situation is right or wrong but like everything else when teams win no one cares. If the Sox made the playoffs this year do you think there would be people questioning their team chemstry or bringing up this stuff? I doubt it, just like no one brought it up before the end of September. And let's not be naive to think this stuff doesn't happen in other clubhouses either. I would be shocked if the Red Sox were the only team to have pitchers/players not paying attention to games when they weren't playing. That's funny is everyone is forgetting, collapse aside, this team won 90 games and missed the playoffs by just 1 game. This is the same team that almost everyone in America picked to win the WS at the start of the season and it's possible if injuries/bad luck/Tampa playing out of their minds didn't happen they may have. But again I think people thinking the Sox are going to be a bad team in the future are going to be disappointed.
Drinking, playing video games, etc has no business in my clubhouse, go in the dugout and root for your teamates....EVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERBODY wants to get in A-Rod for leaving games early, etc, this is the samething really....Drink after the game, out of the clubhouse, you have to be the example for the younger kids on how to prepare for games..... Now if you want to eat fried chicken, I am all for that, I like fried chicken too.... although Beckett looked a little plump at the end of the year.... The point is Pads, they did stink up the place...historically at that..........one cant help but think, these actions combined over the course of the year, had something to do with it...because how that team blows that lead is beyond me, this explains it...........perfectly
Exactly, 100%. But a major HOUSE CLEANING for all the same WRONG reasons would have occurred back then. The fact that its happening now, is doubly fun.
Yes and no....agree on the same team coming back and being good.... The shot thing was a non story, if anything if unified them, they were down 3-0, and it was one shot, nobody was or got drunk off it.....different than people just outright forgoing games to chill in the clubhouse, get fat, and turn your manager into a pumpkin.....if you respect your manager you dont do that... I am just saying it is poor behavior to exhibit for the younsters coming up...
Well the Sox did clean house after the 2004 season anyway. They let Pedro, Lowe, Cabrera go after the season, after the 2005 season let Damon, Arroyo, Mirabelli, Mueller, and Bellhorn go. Theo knew they had an older team and wanted to get younger while developing the farm system. By 2007 only Ortiz, Manny, Youkilis, Wakefield, Varitek, Mirabelli (who the Sox reaquired) and Schilling were the only ones left from 2004. And again as much as I like Francona if he couldn't reach the players and lost the clubhouse I don't have a huge problem with him going. And don't forget Francona decided he was leaving as well, you can't force someone to stay. As for Theo, again I think he's a very good GM but I think Cherington will do a good job as he has been the assistant GM for years now so he knows the system and likely has the same thoughts as Theo does. Change isn't always a bad thing.
Again though if the Sox made the playoffs no one would care about this stuff. You'd be shocked if you heard some of the stuff that went on behind the scenes in 2004 with some of the players that never got leaked to the media. Trust me those things were a much bigger deal than take out food and video games. It's one of the reasons why the team was broken up.
Here's a good question, if people are really blaming video games, drinking in the clubhouse and take out orders during the games as the reason why the Sox didn't make the playoffs, were the Braves doing the exact same thing in their clubhouse? Could it simply come down to a combination of injuries, bad luck, having a terrible month and another team playing out of their mind during that streak?
Nah, changing on your terms like they did some in 2004, and 2005 isnt the same as changing cause the SNOW BALL is rolling down hill out of control like what is going on right now. Its so much more fun and messy this go round. Tito = gone Theo = gone next the players???.....Drew, Wakefield, Varitek, Ortiz, Papelbon....tick, tick, tick, tick.....
