What do you see happening RF? Imo dumping Francona or Epstein would be knee jerk and a mistake, if anything they need to rethink the pitching staff as 3 starters are not really worth brining back.
That's the problem with the media, they have ZERO accountability. They can say things and then a day later pretend they never did. Looking at this team to start the year there were serious question marks at catcher and SS. There were questions about whether Papelbon, Beckett, Lackey and Matszuaka would rebound from disappointing 2010 seasons. I do remember NESN posting something on their website about how the Sox offense might be as good as the 1927 Yankees.
Well obviously JD Drew is gone. I'd have to think Wakefield will be gone too. Possibly Varitek. I think the Sox will pick up Scutaro's option but will look to deal him. McDonald gone. I think the Sox will try to re-sign Ortiz for another year but he'll balk so the Sox will let him walk too. The whole medical staff will be let go. A new training staff with a new conditioning plan in place. A few coaches most likely Tim Bogar (3B coach/infield coach) and Curt Young (pitching coach) will be let go. I don't think Francona or Theo will be gone but I do think Theo needs to look in the mirror and found out why his big FA signings don't work out. Theo also needs to address his farm system a bit as they have drafted a lot of quality players but haven't seen a lot of results in a few years. It's possible the Sox simply dump Lackey and pay him to sit at home. Theo needs to stop with the one year projects (i.e. Penny, Smoltz, Millers of the world). The really need a #4 and #5 SP (there are tiny rumblings that they're thinking of making Bard a starter), a RHH RFer, a better RHH 4th OFer, and really needs to focus on the defense on the left side of the infield as SS and 3B were a big problem this year. I think anyone other than Pedroia, Gonzalez, Ellsbury, Lester and Buchholz would/should be available in trade talks. We need to remember though as bad as the Sox were in September they were still a good team. Losing Youkilis and Buchholz to injury really hurt the team. A thousand things had to have gone wrong in September for this team to have blew it and everyone one of them did. Like I said a few posts earlier the baseball gods just didn't want them to make the playoffs nothing went right for them.
Well, the overall consensus was that the Red Sox were going to roll in the AL East and represent AL in WS by the media (and agree about ZERO accountability). That said, I will be watching this off-season and chatting with you I am sure, about knee jerk moves that could be made. Makes me think about 2004 and the down 0-3 situation; cause until that reverse comeback, I was convinced that bloodshed would occur up and down that roster and FO, but coming back and winning SAVED many jobs and careers. In my mind, they would have blown up the team back then had it not occurred. That said, I expect Beantown FO and Ownership to think rationally right now. I dont expect them to do a whole lot; but perhaps they prove me wrong. In my mind, I would think Wakefield and Varitek retire? Go around the outfield, Crawford stays (one down year shouldnt erase his career - its a learning year - give him a chance to have the fire burn and have him step up); Ellsbury safe. Drew - Gone??; Infield: Youk is injury concern but returns for 3rd; SS somewhat of ? mark still (Scuturo stays? Lowrie?) shop for FA?; Pedroia stays; Gonzalez stays; Salty mans the dish? Ortiz if you can secure a 1yr deal...but if not????? Rotation: Beckett stays; Lester stays; Buchholz stays (injury return); Lackey goes to 5th at best; shop for 4th? Hows the minors for any arms?
Sweet Caroline Song Parody: [video=youtube;k2VNr_U5ccw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2VNr_U5ccw&feature=related[/video]
Wakefield is talking about coming back another year to try and get the Sox all time win record, I believe he's 7 away, but if I'm the Red Sox I ask him nicely to retire because he shouldn't be back. I love Wakefield for all he did with the club but he's more harm than good at this point and couldn't get anyone out all year. I don't think Varitek will retire but I know the Sox LOVE Lavarnway and could see him being the back up catcher/DH vs. LHP moving forward. Drew is gone, his contract is over and I can't see the Sox resigning him even for a year, plus he mentioned he might retire too. If the Sox don't resign Ortiz I can see them having Youk and Lavarnway sharing DH duties. The Sox have Will Middlebrooks in the minors and if all goes well he should be up by July or August or next year, he's an above average defensive 3B with pop in his bat. As for SS I think the Sox are frustrated with Lowrie as the guy can never stay healthy nor is he a very good defensive SS (neither is Scutaro). They have Iglesias who's just awesome with the glove in the minors but his bat needs work. The Sox might be willing to deal with Iglesias hitting in the mid 200s if he plays GG defense. I agree about Crawford, one down year shouldn't erase what he's done in his career to date and I expect him to play better next year but this year he was a huge disappointment in all aspects of his game. The Sox have some talent in the minors (both hitting and pitching) but everyone is years away as all the talent is in high A ball. Anthony Ranuado and Matt Barnes (first round picks in the last 2 years) could get a cup of coffee next year if all goes well. The Sox were expecting big things from Felix Doubront this year but he showed up to camp out of shape and got hurt and never rebounded, he's going to stay in Boston all winter to work out though.
Sox should go back to their MLB farm system, the San Diego Padres, and acquire Latos for the rotation. I'd keep Scutaro, let Ortiz walk, adios Drew, I also think Epstein should rethink his totally stats based approach to FA signings, to me he does not take into account how guys will mesh into the culture of Boston, he just looks at their numbers and that imo is a mistake. As for Wakefield, imo it depends on his health, if he is 100% or as close as he can come to it, then I'd probably bring him back as knuckle ballers can have great seasons even in their mid 40's and they can eat innings.
No hate but misery loves company. I mean I've barely heard anyone mention the Braves epic collapse. You do have to give it to the Rays and to the Cardinals to a lesser extent. [padding their record against sorry teams and the phillies making zero effort to beat them.]
That's not a bad idea regarding the Sox getting Latos, but that's not going to happen for at least another couple of years. As for Theo and Co. they don't simply use a stat based approach. They scouted Crawford all of last year and even had people look into his personal life to see what he does when he's away from the ball park. I do agree it does take a certain type of player to be able to play in Boston though. But looking back to last year did anyone doubt Lackey wouldn't be able to handle it? I mean the guy was viewed as a bulldog on the mound that wanted the ball in a big game. No one ever questioned his make up. Sometimes FA signings just don't work out. Heck people killed him for the JD Drew signing saying he couldn't handle Boston and that actually ended up working out for the Sox. But Theo absolutely does have a spotty track record with FA signings. As for Wakefield, no he's awful and he hurts the team. If he's in the bullpen he can't come into a close game, nor can he be used for a match up type role. He hasn't shown he's able to stay healthy for a full season in 4 years to be a starter and he was just bad this year when he did start. It's time to hang them up Timmy. Padre, as an outsider, which players don't you think fit well with the team/handle playing well in Boston?
Well the Red Sox will always be the bigger story since they're the more popular team (in terms of bringing in ratings/money for the networks) whether that's fair or not. If I'm a Braves fan I'm probably happy the team is being pushed to the backburner right now. And I do absolutely tip my cap to both the Cardinals and Rays but I don't think it's unfair to say that both of those teams were lucky to take advantage of the Sox/Braves to end up in the playoffs. That's not a knock on either team because you need luck in baseball. Of course if the Sox and Braves played even decent baseball in September we wouldn't be talking about this stuff today so utlimately it's on those two teams they sucked.
I agree, I'm just a little more impressed with the Rays erasing a 7-0 deficit against the Yankees than the Cards winning a series against the worst team in baseball. I mean they have to play who is in front of them but I don't have to be as impressed with it. But if the Braves even went .500 or close they would have easily taken the wildcard. We'll find out soon what the Cards are really all about. Philly will be trying to beat them this weekend, it won't be reserves. I'm really concerned that failed potential is going to be the norm with the Freddi Gonzales managed Braves. He just made some big mistakes this past month and really throughout the season. Lowe should not have been starting at all in September. He damn sure shouldn't have been starting on Tuesday night. He wasn't going to magically become a serviceable pitcher. His stinking ERA for the year was five. Even up to the last Freddi was talking like it was just bad luck and they'd get on a roll and they'd still make the postseason. Like he just expected things to magically get better. He went to O'Ventbrel way too much over the course of the season. I think that's something everybody knows except him. It would have helped if the offense scored more but there were plenty of times he could have went to other guys and didn't. This is just a textbook example of why you don't wear your best pitchers out. I see no reason to think Atlanta won't have a roster capable of knocking off the Phillies next season. I'm just not sure that will matter if they're not managed with some sense.
I think Theo trading for Bedard was an unbelievably dumb move, as many predicted. He was the opposite of being able to handle the big stage. They could of traded for about 10 pitchers and the Saux would of been in. Instead they went for the boom or bust in Bedard, and he was a massive bust.
Yes of course. But you could also say if the rays didn't have the month of July, it wouldn't of been close. I mean. July wasn't quite as bad as the Saux September, however it was a very down month for the rays.
But SauxNation will counter with "what ifs" about the April start, etc.....its a never ending debate over who is sucky-ier. .
Well RF: -Crawford may have been investigated, but maybe they were looking for the wrong things? Meaning just because he is not out until 3 am at a club does not mean he was a good fit in Boston -They have moved away from character guys and sort of disrupted the contract hierarchy in the club house, not sure that works well outside of NYC. -Think Saltalamacchia played to often, Francona maybe fell in love with a player Imo they never really recovered from the loss of Bucholtz, and Bedard is a sort of good case study in guys who have to fit into Boston to have success, this is not a place that allows for anonymity and his prior issues should have waived Epstein off of him. I have not studied the BoSox season THAT closely but those are some of the impressions that I had, they went from merry marauders to a sort of souless team that lacked cohesion when times got tight.
Agreed and check out the rays April. We had a terrible start as well. Fact is, Rays over 162 game span won more games. If you can't solve it in 162 games, then oh well.
I disagree with not having character guys. Crawford and Gonzalez are both very high character guys. And they had to play Salty a lot. Varitek was awful behind the plate and rather then moving on from him, they decided to bring him back. Fact is, Theo put together a team that had pitching issues and put that with a team that had injuries and its a team that simply didn't have it to go the distance. They still had a very good season overall. If their pitching stays healthy even, its unlikely anyone questions the Saux "character" as they would be in the playoffs and making noise in it.
The Red Sox simply didn't get the depth they thought they had.....in March they were loaded SP, and in the BP...and they lost everybody.... Dick-K, and Buck absolutely killed them....
Again taking nothing away from the Rays but the Yankees didn't use Robertson or Rivera at all in last night's game. Those two have been great all year. You'd have to think if they pitched either one of them in the 9th Dan Johnson doesn't hit that HR. I'm also pretty confident that if David Robertson pitched the 8th he does give up 6 runs. I agree with you about Gonzalez, I don't think he's a good in game manager and he absolutely abused that bullpen during the year.
I didn't mind the Bedard trade, it thought it was a good gamble because he was pretty good this year and had experience in the AL East and he gave up nothing for him. I also don't think he was 100% healthy in his last two starts either (surprise surprise huh?). But I do think Theo should have added another arm or two along with Bedard. This is true, however the Sox did have two key injuries to Youkilis and Buchholz who both ended up missing about half the season. A healthy Buchholz and who knows what happens. But some of that again falls to the depth of the Sox team. Tampa just had more depth and could afford if one of their pitchers went down, the Sox couldn't and it cost them. Injuries are part of the game though, it's no excuse.
Yeah I don't agree with you on Crawford is a hard worker and high character guy all around, it wasn't like he was a Gary Sheffield type that just cared about his stats or himself. He had a bad year, I think it's safe to give him a pass for that. Maybe it will turn out he can't handle Boston, it's possible but he's a good player, he deserves a freebie this year. Saltalamacchia was one of the better catchers in the AL this year. He had a rough September (which is typical for catchers) but he wasn't the problem. And like Nappy said, Varitek is just awful there's no way he should have played more than Saltamacchia.
I just watched the Sox presser about offseason....gotta say, the media is made up of knuckleheads. One dude asked Tito if someone (alluded to Lackey) should be fined or docked for "attitude" when on the mound....he asked is that his problem as the viewer of the action, or the teams problem for signing a contract to a pitcher with that makeup, etc. Tito jumped in an said "its clearly your problem; we cant put no eye-rolling into a contract"..... too funny!
Tito is awesome.....cool dude....a little too players manager though.... and yeah I will admit if I were a Sox player, I would be a little ticked at Lackey for his antics on the mound....the Sox are complainers....Ortiz, Youk, Lackey, Lester....they love barking at umps, anybody....Ortiz you can barely even throw a strike without him looking back at the ump...
Definitely an interesting press conference. I definitely got the feeling some players are going/won't be back (Ortiz and Lackey). I'm hoping Francona is back too but it sounded like he was 50/50 on returning.
I guess that means that the Sox clubhouse must have been a real nightmare and he was probably burnt out by what comes with managing in Boston. If that report is true and he's leaving I'll be pretty upset because I think he's one of the best managers in the game.
I agree 100%. I can't believe they would not want him back. Blows my mind. I'd take him over Girardi in a heartbeat. -Ed- sent from my EVO 3D
From listening to that interview where Tito talked about the talk he had after the 14-0 win in Toronto, you could tell he didn't like it....as well Theo came out and said the "clubhouse culture" has to change.....one thing about sports, it is always worse than it sounds... Now there is reports of pitchers drinking on off days in the clubhouse, Papi being "not the best teamate", Lackey snipping at teamates, Youk and Ellsbury not getting along....it is like the bad version of the Johnny Damon idiots... I guess my question in all of this is..............Where the hell is the Captain? Tek needs to go, so Dustin can get it, and put people in line.... And one thing is definately for sure is thank God the Yankees didn't get Lackey....that guy is a Grade A douchebag...
I think Theo is making a mistake in the aftermath of the season, they really should take 2 weeks to analyze everything then come to a decision.
Yeah when Francona/Theo was saying the clubhouse wasn't good I thought they were talking about Ortiz, Lackey, Youkilis, Matsuzaka, Okajima, possibly Wakefield (last year him, Lowell and Ortiz were big pains in the clubhouse due to lack of playing time) etc. I really think the Sox should just simply cut Lackey and eat his money, Matsuzaka is gone after the year anyway and will be hardily with the team so that solves him, I really don't think the Sox want Ortiz back and as much as I love the guy I'm sure he's a diva in the clubhouse as he always whines about silly things. I don't know maybe the Sox see what they can get for Youkilis? It will be interesting to see who else was considered a pain to deal with. I'd have to think Pedroia and Lester are safe from that as Francona always praised both of them numerous times. But it just seems like the clubhouse is a bad place right now, again when the team wins no one cares about chemistry but once they lose things look worse.
Managers not only get burnt-out, but their voice/message/approach/authority gets stale after such a tenure. Doesnt matter how successful (Torre); or how friendly (Francona), sooner or later they NEED to go as much as WANT to go sometimes. The rare are the Macks, McGraws, Cox, and LaRussa's of the world I wonder if Francona wants to give the CUBS a try the same way we talked about Theo. If Tito leads Cubs to WS, he would be a GOD among mangers to take two cursed franchises to Championship.
They are saying the ChiSox or the Nats......The ChiSox are boring though....but maybe he wants boring...
Taken from the Yanks thread...cause the first domino impacting SauxNation has wobbled and seems to be falling..... I am not burying them, right away anyway....just think this offseason will be quite telling on their future. Tito? Wakefield? Varitek? Drew? Papelbon? Ortiz? And that's not all of the FA decisions facing Sox, but these above are some significant (FACE of the FRANCHISE) type moves could/will happen. And in and of itself thats not always a bad thing....I stated Torre had become stale and the Yankees needed new blood, new face, new mindset. It took the ending of a Stadium and a re-birth of a new one to inject vigor. Sure, Sox could follow suit and reinvent themselves, but aside from who you lose, it comes down to who returns from Injuries and steps up. Ellsbury did it; but I suspect being younger and not suffering major OLD AGE injuries played a role. Can Youk? heck can he be an everyday 3B, or is he DH. I suspect Buchholz has a chance, but Arms with any bodily injury can impact motions and cause other injuries. Same with DiceK. Also, who gets signed with that $50M off the books? You yourself are upset with some of the FA signings, and HIGH-RISK guys; has Theo learned a lesson? So this offseason, with your best and brightest in the farm system several seasons away, 2012 may not be any brighter than 2011. I dont think the hype (unless you go after Reyes) will be higher than it was in 2011 following Gonzo and CC as signings and expectations. I do think NYY has some bright arms ready to make the leap next year and fill in the rotation gaps that Colon and Garcia plugged in well-above-expectations. Same with Bullpen, getting Joba back too, etc. New year, new excitement.....this offseason....it will be What will Boston Do to rebound? Cause you know the minute Pitchers and Catchers report, it will be weeks of, can Boston overcome the feeling of the worst decline ever in baseball history! Heck, any lead will bring the questions throughout the regular season as Sept makes its presence. Good times....good times.
Gotta say very surprised to hear about Youk being a pain, continuing to dog out Elsbury this year, makes me wonder if Manny was in the right when he went after him the last year he was there?
IDK bro good question, some names I can think of......Tony Pena, Bobby V, DeMarlo Hale, Willie Randolph, Torre, I dont know if any of those fit, I do like Pena alot though.... I wonder if they get more of a disciplinarian this time around...
