Josh Freeman is really good. If the game on Saturday was the only time you've seen him, you're missing out.
Josh Freeman has all the tools to become a good QB becoming elite requires time, experience, leadership & a head coach willing to build an offense around you
The biggest question I have about his piece is why did he include both Kerry Collins and Peyton Manning? That's the only team he double-counted QBs from. If he were going to double-count like that he should probably include Rex Grossman along with John Beck since they're both still competing and likely to wind up sharing.
I didn't even notice that. Did he skip a team because I thought he only had 32 guys listed? EDIT: Looks like Clayton counted Grossman-Beck as one huge blob of mediocritude. He did count Manning/collins separately for a total of 33 QB's listed. Poor Andy Dalton. 33rd ina league of 32 starters.
It is ridiculous because he has Henne's direction pointing down. Is he serious the only hope is Marshall and Bush having big years? How about his biggest hope is not playing under the senile fool Henning?
I didn't realize that Henning forced Henne to throw 19 interceptions or miss numerous deep throws. I'm not saying that Henning was a good coordinator but the players have to play.
I wouldn't say ridiculous - but they are just very much one guy's opinion without much strategy or back-up involved. For instance - if you put Mark Sanchez and his 75 QBR at number 17, you are implying that winning is a major stat for a QB. But then why are Kyle Orton and Kevin Kolb ahead of David Garrard and Jason Campbell? Garrard and Campbell have better stats AND have won a ton more games (I believe Orton and Kolb both have lost more than won as starters). And that doesn't even bring into the equation that McNabb and Hasselbeck both had terrible years and yet are ranked ahead of Henne (who won 7 games) and even Colt McCoy. Hell what makes Ryan Fitzpatrick different than those guys, other than Fitz putting up much, much better numbers? To me it just looks like a list of guys that Clayton likes - without a lot of thought put behind it. And as much as I respect Clayton as a journalist - I don't know that I put a ton of stock in his football mind.
Ehh. Once you get past the top 10 or so, there is multitude of above average-average guys that could be put in any number of reasonable orders. Then you have the bottom 6 or 7 or so that are fairly obvious and can also be put in several orders. I think Henne is tiered reasonably in Clayton's anaysis IMO although several other guys should be down there with him
Agreed that after the top few it is a toss-up - but if you are going to write this article, then you had better have strong feelings and be able to back it up. I just struggle to see why Hasslebeck, McNabb and a few others are ahead of McCoy, Henne and Fitz - while Kolb and Sanchez are up in the teens. As much as I am a Stafford fan, what has he done to be up there, as well. Just seems like the guys who get hyped in the media got put higher up based on media hype and not results.
Henne hasn't earned a higher ranking yet. To have a down arrow tells me Clayton hasn't paid too much attention to Henne's play this preseason. Or maybe he has and noticed the play of the OL. Time for Henne to climb the ladder. Looking at Alex Smith...7 years already. Glad the 49ers took him before the Dolphins would have spent the #2 pick on him. Ronnie wasn't great value for the pick, but better than Smith. I know I am in the minority but I think Ryan is overrated. #7 too high. Great team around him, good at short yardage passes, but can't throw the deep ball worth a ****. Although the RAC from Jones on one side and White on the other will inflate his numbers. He was solid on 3rd down.
coming late to the conversation, sorry. but this play was pointed out by the announcers that night and they originally thought the same as Mand but upon further review it turns out that Bess was covered and Henne made the smart choice here. Mando only sees Henne as a half full QB and never will give him proper credit. Henne is improving but he needs to do this in regular season and be consistent before he gets the credit he will then deserve.
this is no time to throw panties or darts... we'll know by game four of the regular season which will afford everyone in both camps adequate time for hysteria according to the call good luck Chad Henne, as the season goes so goes our team p.s.hope you get some help from your front five
Perhaps Clayton hasn't paid much attention to Henne during the preseason, because he is smart enough to realize that preseason games mean absolutely nothing. Henne can only be judged right now on his play during the regular season. The last I checked, Henne was benched the last time the Dolphins played a regular season game. While Henne may have played okay against Tampa Bay last week. It should be remembered that no team goes into a preseason game with a fully developed game plan. To assume that Henne is any better now than he was last year is only a guess at this point, because the Dolphins are only playing practice games. As far as Ryan goes, he is an excellent QB and the Dolphins should have drafted him with the first pick in the 2008 draft. While I think Jake Long is a great left tackle, I still think the Dolphins made a serious error when they passed on Ryan in that draft.
at this point I'd rather him tuck and run than throw a possible pic six here and that to me shows his maturation process. as far as Favre goes, he is also known for being a turn over machine. He is as likely to throw an int as get the phenom TD, but he is known more for the TDs.
You're right Henne needs to prove in regular season as well as post season. But if you can't tell Henne is a different player out there watching the 3 games he played this preseason...OK. As I stated I know I am in the minority. I don't see him as the #7 QB in the NFL right now. Potential? Yes...right now? No, not imo. Have fun with the "should have" argument. No telling how Ryan would have done as a Dolphin. Ryan has been blessed with a great team around him. Put him with the talent and OC we had that past 3 years and his name might be synonymous with Henne right now. Go take a look at the Packers loss. Jenkins had 5 yards on Williams for a 21 yard TD, severely underthrown resulting in pick. Then right before halftime Ryan threw an ill-advised pass that got picked by Williams again and returned for a TD. A pass a high school QB would have been reprimanded for. Later, had a wide-open White about 25-30 yards down the field and he couldn't hit him. My opinion is until he is better at throwing the long ball he doesn't deserve to be ranked that high. Just looking at last years numbers on passes over 20 yards: Ryan 10 of 38 = 26.3% Some QBs ranked below him according to Clayton Freeman 22 of 66 = 33% Flacco 26 of 71 = 36.7% Orton 26 of 63 = 41.3% Schaub 17 of 40 = 42.5% E. Manning 24 of 61 = 39.3% Vick 22 of 55 = 40% Romo 7 of 21 = 33% Ryan was tied for 26th in the league at 6.5 YPA along with Shaun Hill and Sanchez and behind Henne's 6.7 YPA. Heck, Ryan even completed 62.5% of his passes compared to Sanchez 54.8%. He had Turner running the ball, White and Gonzalez to throw to. Didn't have to throw deep that often (and there is a reason for it) and still only completed 62.5% of his passes and 6.5 YPA...not #7 worthy numbers! Like you said with Henne I am waiting for Ryan to prove it on the field before I anoint him an excellent QB worthy of being ranked #7.
Nice straw argument. It's a team game, jdang. t-e-a-m, team. So what you're saying is you didn't watch TB play but are cherry picking the stats of the #2 WR in an attempt to salvage an argument? Rather than me telling you, how about I just show you instead? There are many big plays omitted, but it's a good start. I think it starts at the 1:25 mark. Don't forget all the short field INTs at the end that set up easy TB scores. [video=youtube;BHrkn9oFNjw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHrkn9oFNjw[/video] Speaking of Arrelious Benn? Do you know who he is? Are you referring to the talented, playmaking 2nd round pick? Another straw argument, I see. So what you're saying is Marshall wasn't injured? Hartline wasn't injured? Bess is now a playmaker rather than a possession receiver? And our depth at WR and TE was impressive? I'm just trying to understand you here. Are you counting the guys who were actually on the field?..... or are you counting the injured ones on the sideline? Because if you're counting Marshall, Bess, Hartline, and Fasano when they were all healthy and playing together, I seem to recall our playoff hopes were still alive and Henne was on par statistically with Ryan, Freeman, and Flacco. So let me ask you this----- Is there ANY TIME WHERE A QB IS NOT AT FAULT FOR THE PROBLEMS OF AN OFFENSE??? Hypothetically, what if there's a dismantled & injured Oline, a horrible OC, no ground game, poor protection, no outlet back, injuries to your WRs & TE, terrible field position, and crappy depth at WR/TE? I know we didn't experience any of that, but would that count? I'll address these games further down. It's easy to have less INTs when the game isn't put on your shoulders week in and week out. It's amazing what your INT stat can look like when there's less pressure on you to force throws or make plays because your TEAM is playing well and putting you in positions to succeed. However, according to you, that doesn't happen in football b/c the QB position isn't dependent on ANYTHING but his own play. <sarcasm> So now TEs and RBs don't catch passes? Winslow & Cadillac's 112 receptions don't count? Are you asking if I'd I take Tampa's entire group over our injury plagued one, then yes I would.... in a heart beat. Now if you're adding in the Oline, ground game, and OC, then that's a yes, too. Probably even a bigger yes. I'm not even sure what you're saying here, but it sounds like you're telling me that I'm consistent with my beliefs that this is a team game, not an individual game. Thank you? Only on a Dolphins forum would someone argue that this isn't a team game, rather the QB is responsible for everything. Only on a Dolphin forum would a fan scapegoat the QB for an ENTIRE TEAM'S crappy play, coaching, and offensive design, while simultaneously crediting the Bucs ENTIRE TEAM's success to their QB. That's a massive slap in the face to Tampa's 10-6 season. The Bucs won 10 games b/c they played well as a TEAM. If Freeman were a truly great QB, then Tampa would've finished 13-3 and helped win them games when they weren't playing solid TEAM football. Just like Henne, he won when put in a position to succeed. Josh lost when he wasn't. The difference was the amount of times each QB were put in those situations. The favor was clearly in Freeman's corner. That reminds me about the time my dog ate my homework and I got a zero for the assignment. Sorry, just reminiscing. Another straw argument from you. I've never said he didn't contribute to a poor season, but nice try. A QB can only be as successful as the position he's put in. If he's in his 2nd year starting and you put him in a position to fail, he's GOING TO FAIL. If it's his 2nd year starting and you put him in positions to succeed, then if he's a good QB, he should succeed. Henne was put in more positions to fail; Freeman was put in more to succeed. It's that simple. Honestly, do you believe a QB's success isn't dependent on anything? If you're a team built and designed to run the ball, what are all the reasons that would cause you to INSTEAD rely on having your 2nd year starting QB throwing it 35 times a game? I'm excited to hear this answer.
Weeks 1-6? Did you think this one through? lol. Or did you "watch" all the games out of order so that you don't recall which games the first 6 were? Game 1: Browns. 17-14 win. Ooooh, lot 'a points there. lol. -You should've seen Freeman's ugly INT perfectly delivered to Mike Adams. -Then (lucky for Freeman) 4 plays later, Rhonde Barber INTs Delhomme and returns it to the Browns 3. (Oh no, 3 whole yards for a TD) -This is when Mike Williams, the playmaker, bats Josh's pass up to himself and then snares it for a tip-toe TD. HIGHLIGHT CATCH.... but a TD in Freeman's stats. -Bucs defense INTs Delhomme again. -If not for Barber's INT, Freeman probably loses that game 14-10. Game 2: Carolina. 20-7 win vs the worst team in the NFL. -1st TD was a dump off to Earnest Graham. -2nd TD drive, Freeman makes a great play to evade pressure and completes a 40 yard pass downfield to Winslow that Fasano would never be able to make. Then Mike Williams scores a 35 yard TD thanks to a 17 YAC run. -3rd scoring drive, Matt Moore is INT'd on Carolina's 25. TB can't take advantage and settles for a FG. -Tampa's DEFENSE stuffs Carolina on Tampa's 1 yard line on 4th & 1. -Tampa's DEFENSE picks Clausen. Game 3: Pitt. 13-38 loss. -Freeman looked HORRIBLE when called upon to carry the Bucs. -He should've had 3 or 4 INTs rather than the lone pick 6. -Close to 100 of his yards came AFTER trailing 31-6. Game 4: Bengals. 24-21 Win. -TB took a 7-0 lead thanks to a Carson Palmer pick 6. (Miami had lots of those!) -Earnest Graham breaks off a 61 yard run and Freeman throws an INT on the very next play. -Down 21-14 with 2 minutes left, Aqib Talib INTs Palmer at the 50 for another short field opportunity. <How many short fields opps for Henne?> -Mike Williams, the PLAYMAKER, then catches a 20 yard JUMP BALL TD to tie the game 21-21. -With 0:25 left, Piscitelli picks off Palmer and returns it to Cincy's 34. (ANOTHER short field opportunity? The heck you say!) -Then that Spurlock guy makes a RIDICULOUS 21 yard, fully-stretched, horizontal sideline grab to set up the game winning FG! -Bucs kick the FG to win it. TEAM WIN. T-E-A-M. look it up some time. Game 5: Saints. 6-31 Loss. -Bucs running backs ran 13 times for 25 yards. (15 of those came on 2 runs). -Freeman stunk and could NOT pick up the slack when his ground game forced him to throw it 43 times. -His lone TD came with 5 minutes left in the game while trailing 24-0. -This was the 2nd time in 3 games that the 2nd string QB relieved him in the 4th quarter. Game 6: Rams. 18-17 Win. -First 3 points resulted from Bucs' defense forcing a turnover on the Rams' 6 yard line. (WHAT?! ANOTHER SHORT FIELD OPP?!) Only a FG? -Bucs kick 3rd FG after Blount runs 4 times for 32 yards in the drive. -During Bucs 4th FG drive, Blount: 21 yards. Freeman: 17 yards. -Bucs game winning drive. On 3rd & 10 with 0:25 left, MIKE WILLIAMS catches an easy 7 yard pass, MAKES 3 DEFENDERS MISS before the first down marker, and then runs 13 yards to the 1 yard line to set up the game winning TD. Let's see, that's 16 POINTS PER GAME. -7 of those thanks to a pick 6. -23 were via short field opportunities created by the Buc's defense. When Tampa played well AS A TEAM, they won AS A TEAM, not because Freeman carried them. When Tampa didn't play well as a team, they lost, and Freeman typically couldn't do anything to prevent it. When you put a QB in a position to succeed, he should succeed. However, the bad QBs will still lose some of these. The good ones should win most to all of these (and not have the team winning in spite of him). The great ones should be able to improve upon this and win a few games in spite of his team's poor play, but that still isn't enough to win a SB. Do you honestly believe Brady, Brees, or Manning haven't been put into situations conducive to their success (whether it be from outstanding defensive play, surrounding offensive cast, coaching, or an offense suited to their skill set)?
Freeman & Bucs: scored 16 POINTS PER GAME during first 6 games, 4-2 record. -7 points courtesy of a pick 6. -23 were via short field opportunities created by the Buc's defense. -4 wins vs teams with a losing record. -2 losses vs a playoff & SB team (19 total points). ****Henne & Miami, 4-2 during first 6 games (if you account for the Pitt call). -17 POINTS PER GAME. -1 TD via forced fumble in end zone. -fewer short field opps. -2 wins vs teams with a losing record. -2 wins vs both SB teams (45 points). -2 losses vs 2 playoff teams (37 points). Miami & Tampa common opponents Cincinnati: Bucs offense scored 17 pts...... Miami, 22. Pitt: Bucs, 13 pts (7 came in garbage time)...... Miami, 22. Cleveland: Bucs, 17 pts (1 TD was a 3 yard drive after Bucs D forced a fumble)..... Miami, 10 (no Marshall). Baltimore: Bucs, 10 pts........ Miami, 10 pts. (Freeman 17/37; First 3 pts thanks to Talib INT at Balt's 36; TD came with 4 minutes left to play when trailing 2 TDs.) Detroit: Bucs, 20 pts; Miami, 27. Average of the 5 games Bucs & Freeman: 15.4 (16.8 if you include the defense's pick 6). Fins & Henne: 18.2 Bucs' record: 2-3 (possibly 0-5 w/o the Palmer pick 6, Talib's 4th qtr INT of Palmer, and the INT on the opponents 6 yard line vs the Browns). Miami's record 1-4 (should be 2-3 <Pitt>..... although Miami scored enough points vs Detroit to where we win the game if our D, like Tampa, holds the Lions to 20 pts. IIRC, we missed a pick 6 verse Cleveland that could've won it for us rather than losing 13-10.)
You know that time in that one football movie when the team was down by 30 and the coach told the rest of the team to stay out on the field at halftime and practice and went in the locker room to rally the QB so he could win the game? That was a ****ty movie.
It's always time to throw panties or boa's ! http://www.thephins.com/forums/album.php?albumid=119&attachmentid=897
IF I had to rank Mondo on grading Dolphin QB's, he would be #2, with everyone else in the world being tied for First.
