Re-Try: Ten Thoughts on First Half of Panthers Preseason Game

NOTE: This thread is a re-try. Let's make this a FOOTBALL discussion, an on topic discussion that follows the TOS here at ThePhins, the spirit with which this place was originally created by Muck, Celtkin, etc. Leave your ad hominem attacks and attacks on peoples' character out of this thread, and others please leave out discussions of any perception you might have about the state of affairs on this board. I would like this to remain about the FOOTBALL issues that I've raised in the following write-up.

Ten Thoughts on First Half of Panthers Preseason Game

1. Reggie Bush. He was very impressive. This is not my favorite player in the world, I've made that clear. But in many ways he was far better a player than I expected him to be, and in other ways he was exactly the player I expected him to be. He has worked very hard and is physically bigger and stronger than he was in New Orleans. On one play he actually dragged DT Sione Fua for about 4 or 5 yards carried on his back. The Panthers did not respect Reggie at all in the beginning of the game, and as a result he was open for some big plays. What's even more incredible is the number of plays he could have made in the passing game if Henne decided to use him even more. As for his running, he showed decent vision, and definitely more post-contact ability than I've seen him have in his entire career. But, he still dances. He left yards on the field because of that hesitation and tendency to dance. I looked at every play, the ones that came back or were wiped by penalty, etc. He had that 28 yard gain called back by the block in the back from Marshall. The problem with that play? He danced enough on it to give Jason Taylor a run for his money on Dancing With the Stars. Decisive action would have earned him those 28 yards without Marshall feeling a need to block someone in the back. As things stand Marshall blocked a guy in the back and that was indeed the only reason Bush was able to gain those 28 yards. But tendency to dance aside, it'll be interesting to see if he can stay healthy because he flashed last night in every phase. At one point he even completely upended a Defensive End in single blocking.

2. Carolina. Let's face it, they really played like a poor football team, and that has to temper our excitement over this game. There was a goal line play where Bush slammed right into the back of his blockers with no real vision, and was allowed to play bumper cars and stab around until he finally found a couple of yards, because Sherrod Martin had terrible containment on the play. Their linebackers and defensive lineman continually lost back side containment on run plays. They never brought out anything even remotely interesting in a passing situation, except I believe one time and on that play they got what they sought...a pressure on Henne and field goal instead of continuing on the long drive. By the time Miami got that second touchdown, the Panthers had taken their starters off the field and moved to their 2nd string, and there were huge gaps in the defense after that. Miami definitely threw more at Carolina from a game planning standpoint than Carolina threw at us. Don't argue, Sparano said before the game that they were going to game plan this one.

3. Defensive Play Calling. As I said, Miami threw a lot more things at Carolina than Carolina threw at us. This was especially true on defense, where Miami broke out multiple exotic blitz packages on third down. They had safety blitzes, they had overload blitzes, they had guys like Starks and Wake line their hands up in the dirt then drop back into coverage, zero cover looks, disguised looks. They did a lot against the rookie QB and most of it worked as intended. There's a reason they shut the Panthers down with 0 points by halftime.

4. Pass Rush. There was something disturbing about the pass rush to me. It had to be manufactured. The only one that was getting pass rush organically was Cameron Wake. Koa Misi couldn't get in there. Jason Taylor wasn't even close. They used Kendall Langford on pass rush packages, with not great results. I like Jared Odrick but even he wasn't getting much going that way. That was really not encouraging. Their answer to the question of "what if they focus a lot on Wake" turns out to be Jason Taylor and a lot more blitzing. I don't like the Jason Taylor part of that answer, and I think the blitzing aspect of it comes with drawbacks.

5. Kevin Burnett & Karlos Dansby. They were fine like wine in this game. Dansby was all over it, especially early. Crowder wasn't lying when he said after the Falcons showing that he expects Karlos to tighten it up and get everyone right. Burnett is a damn good coverage guy, he ends up with a lot of responsibility. In zone, the depth of his drops and the natural feel for the lanes are about as good as you get. In man, you can trust him a lot more than you can trust other guys. Miami has two excellent cover guys at linebacker and that should help them be able to blitz more unpredictably because they both can handle being the cover guy on any given play. Can they stop the run consistently though? We'll see. I have my doubts.

6. Chad Henne. I thought he did OK. He was pretty good. To me, he was mediocre until that last drive of the half, when he hit Fasano as he scrambled out of the pocket, and then he scrambled for 17 yards to get near the end zone. Those were plays that REAL quarterbacks make, and he made them. Before that, he'd have a good read and a good play here, but then he'd have a play where he left a lot on the board. The deep accuracy still needs work. And by that I mean, isn't likely to ever come. As you watch him you start to appreciate the reasons behind the plays he doesn't make. In the case of the bad deep passes, a lot of it is his vision on the field. He just can't lock onto guys quickly. If he waits until he sees it, this leads to stare downs, which present their own problems, or losses of timing, which are problematic. If he doesn't wait until he sees it, then this leads to poor decision making (oh sh-t there was a DB there??), or bad accuracy. The first deep ball to Hartline he executes play-action and there was no hesitation, it was great timing. Good shoulder aiming, good touch, he just led Hartline too much. Why? Bob Griese pointed it out, it was because of the good timing. He didn't SEE Hartline and so he's just taking a stab in the dark with the accuracy. Another deep ball later, it's not play-action, but Gates gets a free release and is running through the secondary like a hot knife thru butter. Why is this ball off? Because Henne took the time (like he needed to) to stare down the safety and freeze him, before he clicked over to Gates and release it with good timing. That unfortunately means he probably didn't SEE Clyde Gates before he released that ball. Result? It's not easy to overthrow Clyde Gates when he has a free release, but he did. In only a half of football, Henne did still have that typical Chad brain fart, too. On one play he rushed it off to Reggie Bush, he threw the ball to him instead of passing it to him. On a 3rd & 19 for some reason he locked onto Fasano up the field for 16 yards between 3 defenders when he had Davone Bess to his left also finding a soft spot in the zone with only one defender near him and a valid chance to run with it after the catch for the improbable 1st down (thanks to Carolina's soft, unaggressive and vanilla defense). On a 3rd & 13 that preceded the turnover on downs, he took the cheap 9 yards to Bess underneath with again, a lot of guys around Davone in the zone and no shot at running after the catch. But there were holes in that zone, especially a corner route, but Henne just doesn't like those kinds of routes, likes the comebacks and the stationary targets. There was one play, I just don't even know WHAT he was thinking. There were options running open everywhere. He could have decisively thrown t4he Daniel Thomas wheel early in the play, or Clyde Gates crossing over the middle, or he could have waited and thrown the post to Anthony Fasano in the end zone. He just stared, like there wasn't a thought in his head, and then finally he clicked over and threw the wheel WAY TOO LATE. The corner was in short zone and should have picked that off and it might have been a pick-6. There were a lot of other plays where Henne's plan on the play was overly conservative, and as a result until that final TD against the backups, even though it was a good day offensively, they had drives end in a FG, a punt and a turnover on downs. If this is what Henne looks like on a GOOD day, then that still concerns me. But if we're just taking the day as it is, then this was not a bad day at all. Pretty average, decent performance.

7. Brian Daboll. I really like his offense. Not unlike Dan Henning, he's got a lot of keenly designed plays drawn up and you see them executed and have a good appreciation for them, and then you see a play call here and there and you think what the hell was that? He had a few of those, no doubt. He definitely did game plan this game some. You could see that. He didn't keep it simple and vanilla. He spread the field out, he had some good route concepts going. It was promising. But it's still going to come down to execution and instincts, and this offense was NOT tested by the Panthers, trust me. They did not bring out anything even remotely exotic for most of the game.

8. Rookie Report. Clyde Gates was OK, but just that. He's being asked to run routes from the perimeter and that's a hard thing to ask the guy. He's got to get off the jam and he has to read safety leverage instead of just corner leverage. They could make things easier on him by putting him in the slot, but they have too many other guys they want to use there. I don't like him on returns at all. I think Phil Livas is the man for that. Charles Clay showed some potential as a blocker in this game, I liked seeing that. Daniel Thomas...he's not ready. We'll see. But I've watched a lot of Stevan Ridley in New England, and thus far, Ridley has been the far superior player. He may actually be able to play this year. Thomas, I'm not sure. They're actually going to have to rely on Reggie Bush as that featured back IMO and even with him looking a lot better in a Miami uniform than I thought he would, that scares me. Among the things I didn't like in Thomas were his pad level which leads to him getting stoned and going down too easily, his fumbling problem showed up on the goal line and that absolutely should have been a fumble and turnover if Carolina didn't have a superfluous 12th man on the field. Daniel seemed good for the cutback, and then you realize as he played on that the cutback was all he had, he had no feel for pushing the front side of the play. He was good as a blocker again, though. Mike Pouncey, I'm sad to say, did not have a good game. I know some are going to say he did, but he didn't. Not in my eyes. The first thing that jumped out about him is that he seems like he's thin and just getting thinner. He looks like a tight end. And on goal line and short yardage plays? He played like a tight end. That first goal line drive where the Dolphins started 1st & Goal on the 1 yard line and needed four plays to bang it in? Pouncey got knocked strongly backward in every one of the plays, and was responsible for the failure of some of them. Other plays I found when I watched him, you'd see an announcer praising his block and I look at it, and it was only really a passable block. Yet more times you'd watch, and you found that he was not doing his job, was getting pushed around, couldn't stay engaged, etc. The biggest thing is the short yardage, it was scary how consistently and strongly he got knocked backward. The Panther do not boast a strong DL, either.

9. Offensive Line. I looked at the stat line and I thought I was going to be impressed by them. Short story short, I wasn't. When Lydon Murtha and Nate Garner at Left Tackle are consistently your best run blockers, that's a problem. When Nate Garner, whom we all know should not be playing left tackle, and Richie Incognito are consistently your best pass protectors, you've got a problem. Jake Long needs to get back, and I'm starting to be worried about his status with that knee. The right side of this offensive line is AWFUL. Absolutely awful. Since Tony Sparano took over the Dolphins, I've not seen him start a player worse than Marc Colombo. That's the honest truth. He's gone through guys like Andy Alleman, Ikechuku Ndukwe, John Jerry, Pat McQuistan...I've never seen one worse than Colombo. He was a waste of space out there. No flexibility, no agility, no burst, his arms get lazy, he's on the ground a lot, and then he lobbed a false start on top of everything just for good measure. If Nate Garner doesn't start over him then they don't really know what they're doing on the offensive line, sorry to say. I know that seems arrogant, say what you will about it, it's just the truth. The problem is, Vernon Carey is just NOT much better. He doesn't have the flexibility or body control to be a guard. You need to be able to move to be a guard. You need to be able to fire low in short yardage situations, get out into space, adjust quickly in zone. He's not doing any of those things. He's better than Colombo but his instincts and skill set are not good at Right Guard. I would end that experiment summarily and either make him my Right Tackle, or cut him. It's sad but as I'm watching the game, I'm thinking that the team might even be better off starting Lydon Murtha at Right Tackle and then having Nate Garner play Right Guard. People get too caught up in "this guy is athletic enough for this" or "this guy is a big, powerful mauler" etc. What you need on the line are five guys that DO THEIR JOBS. And then once you get that, you work them together as a five man unit as much as you can, and go to battle with it. But most run plays looked the same. They were a zone play to the right, the right side would collapse and have no lanes, and something would open on the back side (left side) because of key blocks by Murtha, Garner, Incognito, etc. And Incognito pulled in this game A LOT. Color me a little unexcited about the prospect of turning Richie Incognito into a pulling specialist. And I'm not a fan of pulling guards on the goal line, either. I don't know what the HELL this regime are doing on the OL, and it's supposed to be their area of expertise.

10. Receivers. For what it's worth, I thought they were doing a pretty good job out there. There's still a level of disconnect with Brandon Marshall, you can sense it. There's too much forcing of the ball to him in situations when it really wasn't the best read IMO, and not enough getting the ball to him in situations and circumstances where he can kill the defense. I don't know what to do about that. But Davone Bess did OK especially on that 2nd & 15 completion where he got behind Kendric Burney in man coverage. Lucky for Davone, Burney is probably the only defensive back he'll run into this year that he can beat in a straight up foot race. Hartline continues to do what he's always done...get open. That's what the guy does. He's not the fastest, only has 4.50 type speed, so when you throw him the deep ball you've got to be a little bit more accurate with it. You can't just loft it and let him run under it like Mike Wallace. Anthony Fasano has to shape up. He did well as a blocker but there were times in the passing game where he just didn't look all that interested. And of course, this time Henne hit him on the short out on the front shoulder, and he still dropped the damn ball. Even with that 38 yarder later in the game, Fasano needs to do better. He crossed into a totally wide open zone. Henne did the heavy lifting on that play.

 

That seems to be the popular opinion on the Reggie run and admittedly, I may have the wrong read on it.

 

On Brian Hartline the first thing you look at is the fact that he's BIG. He looks kind of skinny for his size but he's really lengthy at about 6'2" with some long limbs. He's got a lot of experience as a track player. I think he and Ginn used to compete with each other in track. I think the speed thing is way too talked about, and unfortunately I do think that his skin color does play into expectations. He could have the same speed profile, what he ran at his Pro Day, his track history, etc...and if he were a darker hue then I think his speed would get talked about less. Just my opinion, not trying to raise race issues here or call anyone racist or anything. He has a lot of body control and he's very smart. One of the first things he did in a Miami uniform that got my attention was adjust on a ball in the end zone that Henne threw where he tried to throw him open, and he just made the adjustment so easily it stuck out to me that this is a guy that is a smart player.

He gets credit for being a little bit more of a RAC player than he actually is. I think on short stuff he's not really all that interesting a RAC player at all. He's not powerful enough to break tackles like Marshall, nor quick enough to change directions like Bess. But he will tend to have a lot of YAC in his career because of the deep and intermediate ball where I feel he's proven adept at staying on his feet after the catch and continuing to run. That was something he showed at Ohio State too.

They did a really good job when they recognized him as a diamond in the rough, because he wasn't very productive at Ohio State. In fact, tomorrow, the NFL will either draft or not draft the guy that was blamed for Hartline's struggles with production at Ohio State. Back in 2008 he only caught 21 balls, and Terrelle Pryor was blamed. Brian Robiskie caught twice as many passes.

And yet, even at Ohio State, Hartline had 23 yard per catch average in his final year. He caught 21 passes for 479 yards and 4 TDs. And in his career in the NFL he's consistently averaged about 15 yards per catch here too. And of course this preseason he's got 2 catches for 55 yards, and we all saw him get open on that other play-action streaker in the Carolina game...ball just barely overthrown. For not being a valid deep threat the guy keeps producing like one. And then you add up all the penalties he's drawn in his career, for some reason this guy draws a TON of holding and pass interference penalties.

 

I have a very different read on it, but I guess there's nothing wrong with that. I could almost not find a single play of Colombo's where I actually liked what he was showing. He's very lumbering, can't control his own body anymore. His arms are down, the mark of getting lazy. He's not able to move well. And he's gotten beaten way more than just one time in these games, IMO. He's literally the worst OL that I have seen play for this regime since they took over in 2008. It's not just a "whipping boy" thing. I know over at another board there's a former coach there whose opinions I've come to trust quite a bit, and he disagrees with me strongly about Reggie Bush and some other things but he agrees that Colombo looks absolutely terrible.

 

You know, someone else asked in the thread that got shut down how I was watching the game, whether it was a stream, etc. Was it Zeke? I forget. Anyway I watch all the preseason games on the NFL.com's Preseason Live feature. It's wide screen, high def, I don't think there was any skew in the video to where Pouncey would look skinnier to me on the feed than he would on television.

I just a saw a guy that looked skinny, very first thing I noticed, before the game even began.

But what disturbed me is far too often he played like a skinny guy. In those goal line and short yardage situations he was getting knocked backward. And on the run plays, especially the kinds of runs that Miami seemed to favor, his ability to get out into the second level and do some damage was masked by deficiencies elsewhere on the line, specifically at Right Guard and Right Tackle.

He didn't go out there and just look awful on every play. I thought he did his job most of the time which is what you want. But there were serious deficiencies in short yardage and power situations, and like I said the area of strength he has where he could really set himself apart from the others ends up drowned a little bit.

 

That's a pretty fundamental disagreement between us then, because what you deem to be "style points" are actually just the evaluations of ability, efficiency and effectiveness that allow coaches and scouts to project how well players translate into different situations, for instance when real bullets start firing and it's not just preseason anymore.

 

Hopefully they'll look at Gates and confuse him for Davone Bess, because of the dreads and his number also starting with a "1". We should put him in the slot to enhance this effect, maybe changes his number to 16 which can be tough to tell apart from a 15 on the field sometimes.

 

You touch on something important and that is perspective. You can't evaluate these players in a vacuum. It's the reason why I focus so much attention on NFL preseason and regular season games every year instead of just evaluating college players for the Draft which I feel is something a lot of people in the Draft business do and it's a mistake. You need to see them all so that you have an idea what you should be looking for, so that you don't get trapped in seeing something mediocre and thinking it's good enough. I'm not saying other people here don't do exactly that, I'm sure they do, I'm just agreeing with you and reiterating that it's important.