Friday Morning Discussion: If Fins start out 0-4 under Sparano...

l-w-w-l.

 

That is a fair point

 

What if we go 0-0-4? Undefeated, but no wins?

 

Then we bring in Butch Davis.







Duh.

 

No matter what side of the debates any of us sit on in these forums, that is the one thing that could rally us all to one call. No Dolfan could live with the Jets winning the SB. God couldn't be that mean to us could He ? Haven't we suffered enough the last 10 years, and then to see that insult as well ?

 

Trying to win and then NOT winning means you have failed your fanbase. That is exactly what has happened this past decade. The loyalty that Dolfans have shown their team, and that has been considerable, they do deserve to be repaid. Whether or not that happens is a matter of fact or not, but the fans do DESERVE a winner here. They have done their part of the contract and that is constantly full Sun Life Statdium, now its the Dolphins who owe them.

 

Jake..Listen...I, from the get, believe it was a 4 year project, the staff, and team, have a winning record, during the process of rebuilding a franchise, that was in complete dissarray, imo, because of that and the trials and tribulations that have to be accounted for during a rebuild of that size, they have my respect, and I believe bases on what I know about football, they deserve the 4th year, with support...So, the venom I hear from you and others, and the boos, and the support of the boos, to me, is unjust and ignorant because I don't feel people are quantifying the starting point of this particular staff, or the variables involved when the first year head coach took over the franchise..

So with all you and others negativity, all its doing is creating a negative environment for a team that doesn't deserve it from my analysis..All yyour doing is creating a defeatist attitude and creating anx amongs its players and fans..

The past 3 years, and their body of work, and where they came from gives me a bottom line..I'am not gonna sh%$ on them until they deserve to be sh^% on.

 

Just for reference, the suck for luck mantra needs this disclaimer:

He doesn't have to declare this year. He just finished his sophomore season. He would be the prize of the class - I could care less if he has a down year, it's obvious he has talent. And I mean SERIOUS talent. But regardless, but hoping for him next year isn't a certainty.

 

Players read fan message boards, they have egos..Players listen to talk radio, players watch TV..

 

I have it as we will beat the browns and the texans, the browns faced an offense last year that was being sabatoged by a coach and special teams and a deterioting locker room, I think if they get that chance to redeem that bad taste on the road where I don't think its a fluke why they play well, I believe they will rise to that occasion..

I had Colt being a good QB in this league so Iam not suprised, but throwin up fades to Josh cribbs doesn't scare me, and Hillis didn't do much against us on the run, our defense can handle the power backs.

I will root my *** for this team to earn respect that first game of the season win or loss, as long as they take em the distance in the first game, I say that only because Iam taking into account our scheme situation vrs theirs.

 

You wait for the season to be over, its simple.

Than you go after a Cowher or Gruden type that has a resume and has won.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if New England scored 28 points by halftime in that Week 1 game.

 

No, we cannot all agree on that. I find it astonishing that you would even assume so. Look, it's no secret that you are the resident pessimist on these boards, but I personally find it absurd that you would think there is a 60% chance we go 0-4. You do realize that this team, just last year, BEAT the Super Bowl Champions on the road, right? What, exactly, have we done to get worse this offseason? Did our best player leave and I just failed to hear about it? Through this site and Twitter, I try to keep up with what is going on with this team, but perhaps I missed the story where we lost all our talent this offseason. Because, all I've heard is how we got back our 1st round pick from LAST year in addition to all our draft picks this year and Reggie Bush. But, seriously, please explain to me how this team that beat the Super Bowl Champions on the road last year, and also had the AFC Champions beat but for a ****ty call by a referee, has somehow digressed to the point that it has a 60% chance of starting 0-4. Our defense was in its first year under Nolan last year and was one of the youngest units in the league. Whether you think the offense has gotten better or not, the defense should be improved. That, alone, should suggest we at least win one of our first 4 games.

 

Players are human being's and can be affected by what they read and hear..Lets hope the coach knows how to flip it...It is what makes me somewhat optimistic at this point...

 

can't wait..more hypotheticals??....riveting..

 

There's a reason why a 0-4 thread was started and 4-0 wasn't. Even the most optimistic posters on this board aren't that crazy.

 

Can you imagine the odds on that ? You could bet $ 100 and die a billionaire

 

I don't see how anybody could predict a win over Houston.

 

1st, as to "supporting the boos" EXCUSE ME ? Go back and look at the thread on booing. I DID NOT AND DO NOT AGREE WITH THE BOOING OR ORTON CHANTS ! Go look up the thread. I understand WHY they boo and chanted, but to lump me in, or try to associate me with the booing. You need to make sure you separate me from that crap.

And if you want to give them a 4th year, fine. That is you. Do it.

But for myself, I was all for giving them this year until the end of last season. Had they won but ONE of those last home games I wouldn't have turned on them and on Henne. That was too much for me to stomach. It was at that point that I have been in the corner of clearing them out. This off-season didn't do a lot to change that, because of all the things they said they needed to do, they didn't change what needed to be changed the most ; the quarterback. They needed a new QB yet couldn't find one anywhere. They had no conviction on anyone to be better than Chad "Mr Bad Timed Interception" Henne ? That is a regime that is scared to death to take a chance. That is not the way to coach in the NFL, unless you want to end up 6-10, 7-9 or 8-8 every year, and fist-pump for field goals.

DJ you really think anything said on this or any other internet message board as an influence on the team ? Don't know what to say about that except that, dude, you have a very inflated view as to what this board or any other can have on anyone. I'd bet on the fact that most, if not ALL the players on the roster, and the coaches of the team, have ZERO clue it exists. If they are wasting their time reading this or any other "fan" board and being influenced by it, dude that would be VERY SAD, and yet another reason why I wouldn't want them on my team or coaching it. This board is for fans, not NFL players. Its beneath their dignity.

 

You're misusing the word ignorant. That would imply that people that haven't bought into Tony Sparano are for some reason lacking some kind of information that you have. In fact people are interpreting the same things differently. That is not what ignorant means. Someone seeing the glass the opposite way you do is not ignorant. It may be negative, pessimistic, whatever, but it's certainly not ignorant. Everybody knows the 2007 team was not good. Everybody knows he won 11 games in 2008. Everybody knows they have been rebuilding. Everybody knows it was supposed to take longer than a season or two. What are these people ignorant of? Using bottom line wins and losses the last two seasons to judge Sparano has been called a 'shallow' way to view things by you yet you repeatedly use those 11 wins from three years ago to push your POV.

 

and I wouldn't count on his departure from Stanford after this season. Its not as though he needs money (his father is the AD at West Virginia and makes $ 1.2 million a year) and he covets that Stanford degree.

 

Really? Not exactly a juggernaut.

Good offense for sure. Just not sure where that defense is going. Nobody on the defensive line any good except Watt who is just a rookie. Questionable decision to stick Mario Williams at OLB, seems exploitable. Unexciting Brooks Reed is the guy opposite him and he's just a rookie. He is not Clay Matthews. They should have grabbed Nnamdi Asomugha. Jonathan Joseph is good but he doesn't change anything dramatically in that secondary, and the safeties still suck. Kareem Jackson has been a big disappointment (which surprises me), and it looks like they're actually going to try and start Jason Allen which is laughable. It'll probably take them a good month or two of Allen getting absolutely scorched before they realize (again) that he can't play.

With that game being at home...I could see Miami taking it. Actually it seems the kind of opponent Reggie Bush might actually make a nice impact against.

 

Well said!

 

He's getting his degree this year.

Only way he doesn;t come out is if he absolutely doesn't want to play for the team that gets the #1 pick.

If it's the Bungles, I could see him staying in for a year. Pretty much anybody else he's gone.

 

Have they ever been a juggernaut when they've beaten us? Even if it takes six or seven 50+ yard field goals I'm sure they'll find a way. I just can't expect a win given the history no matter how hard I try. I wouldn't be that surprised if they found a way to beat NE and then lost to Houston afterwards. They just have our number.

 

ignorant in this case are folks who back opinions and actions thru media memebers without knowing wtf is going on themselves.

 

and are you forgetting we beat a Green Bay team that wasn't 100 % either, or have you forgotten that ? Sure we beat them, at GB but that wasn't the same team that won the SB either.

Why do I see us going 0-4 ? How did we do against the Pats last year ? When have we beaten the Texans ? Last year we lost at home to Cleveland, and our history in Cleveland is not good. San Diego is just flat out better than us. So yes 60% chance we go 0-4 is actually probably generous given our past records against these teams.

As for defense, all the optimists think the D will get better, just because. Well what if it isn't ? What if they don't get the same production from Soliai and Wake ? What about a major injury to Davis or Smith ? It should not be a given that they will be better. They could be just the same or maybe even a little worse. As for Odrick, I wouldn't count on that dude just yet. He has to stay healthy, which is something he hasn't been able to do as a pro or a college athlete.

 

How else are we supposed to get information on the team, if not through the media?

This isn't exactly an "open" organization.

 

body of work, wins and losses, infusion of youth, Starting point..you come up with 3 years, I come up with 4...I would bet that if you polled GM's around the league and asked the question, should you be in the playoffs in the 3rd year of the rebuild, you would get my POV..

 

Considering KC made it to playoffs in year 2 of a rebuild, we made it in 1, the Jets made it in the first year under Ryan.

Just making it to the playoffs is not really the issue though. Alot of flukey things can happen to make one a playoff team even when overall talent doesn;t dictate it (like the 2008 Dolphins). The measure is whether you have built a foundation for sustained success both through the players you acquire but the coaching as well.

On defense it appears they have put together that unit. On offense, not so much, but it remains to be seen. As for coaching, I think it's been inconsistent. Sparano seemed to do well year 1 but has looked overmatched at times the last two years and has presided over two late season collapses that rival anything Wannstedt faced in his tenure.

 

God I hope so. We need to win that game badly, it could change the whole season. Its such a mental thing to overcome beating them.

 

They have had our number...but I don't know if beating us unexpectedly in the home opener in 2003, for example, really has a bearing on this game. More recently, they doused us in 2009, a game we should have won, and that was a similar team to what you'll find in them today. But they did that during what has now become a traditional late season swoon for the Sparano regime. Note how when we played Tennessee in the 9th game this year as opposed to like the 14th game in 2009, the Dolphins won.

But their defense is still new in the install, and they don't necessarily have the personnel to run it IMO, and for me that'll be the difference.

Of course, you could make the "time of year" argument about the Browns game too...I just think that after winning the Houston game, Miami might walk into that game a little over-confident.

 

Good for him then, he really does have the world at his feet if he plays well this year, and then wins Rose Bowl Game. Not many players will ever have his choice if that is what happens. Its the closest way to choosing where you can play as it ever gets.

 

There's really no way to back up that claim is there? Why would we ask if they should be in the playoffs after three years? Now you're trying to manipulate my opinion to suit your needs? I have always said that I am down on Tony Sparano because of last season's December collapse. I said my problem was that the team was trending downward, it collapsed with playoffs on the line against bottom teams in the league. I never claimed that my problem with him was simply that he didn't make the playoffs. He didn't HAVE to make the playoffs. But after three years you want to see a team trending upwards and a coach that's improving.

 

Halfway through your post, and I was readying my response about how Reggie should be a huge factor in that game. But I see you touched on it at the end. I'll take Reggie matched up against Mario Williams and J.J. Watt in space any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I have no idea how some people are looking at the game as if a loss is a foregone conclusion.

 

Wow....someone thinks they are on the same level of NFL know how as a GM.......okay......

 

Well said !

 

Apparently we just regurgitate the opinions of Miami Herald writers and such.

 

child please..