What this organization could do to inspire my long term hope:

Um?
Drafting Jake Long #1 in the same draft.
Trading for Brandon Marshall (giving up 2 2nd rd picks and giving him one of the largest contracts).
Drafting John Jerry on the OL.
Signing Ritchie Incognito
Re-signing Ricky Williams

I'd call those moves trying to help Chad Henne. Did the work? Not all of them. That happens.

Hell, not even every single team on that list has brought in a big time WR. Who's been brought in for Bradford? Who's been brought in for Stafford? CJ was already there. I'd say Miami has attempted to do quite a bit around Henne. They've brought in even more this year.

I'll say that Pennington being in the picture was an easy replacement for Henne when he struggled. But hell, last year and the year prior Sanchez was getting a lot of heat and talks of him being relegated to the bench. Had a Chad Pennington been there, I'm not so sure he wouldn't have been inserted. I don't see how having a credible, viable back up QB hurt Henne.

 

Henne is absolutely one of the reasons why this staff is on the hot seat. GM's and coaches are fired because of their inability to find a QB, let alone lose.

My point is that they hitched their jobs with the Miami Dolphins to Chad Henne being the guy, after Chad Pennington. Pennington's injury made this happen earlier than expected, but hey, that's the way things role in this league and knowing Pennington he probably let him know that can always happen.

If Chad Henne was the guy and the fan base felt comfortable, excited with him, this would be a different story (kinda like last year). It's clear the front office doesn't feel comfortable or else they wouldn't be going after other players.

 

I'm curious what moves you would have made.

From what I can tell, Ireland shares your view. Orton is probably the best available QB (including the draft) for this year and there doesn’t seem to be any urgency to bring him in. Wouldn't it be poor GMing to not pursue him?

I personally think Orton is better than Henne today, but am not convinced he will be better than Henne when all is said and done.

It looks to me like the Dolphins are grooming a QB, but need to bring in another guy who has taken a snap or two in the NFL.

 

Ok. So they're not "asking" them to lose games.

You're saying the trade off is to play Chad Henne at the expense of winning games now. I'm sorry. That isn't the way the NFL is anyone. No one goes into a season saying we're going to play this guy even though we know we'll probably lose more games. That's ridiculous.

We didn't do that with Sean Smith or Vontae Davis. They were viewed as the best players. They were highly, sought after players. Plus, comparing the CB position to the QB position is apples to oranges.

Playing Sean Smith & Vontae Davis ensured us of not being a playoff team?

Chad Henne went into last season as the starter without competition. To think that the offense was not made with the intention for him to be successful is ridiculous. I mean hell, let's use common sense here. This was the same offensive system that had us all excited about his upcoming 2010 season. Now, it's an offense that wasn't tailored for him? Ya. The play-calling sucked. Ya. Players underperformed all around the joint, but wherever this notion came that the scheme wasn't tailored for Henne is just naive. He was drafted because they thought he was a great fit. No one talked about him not fitting in the offensive scheme in 2009. Now, he struggles and it's the fault of the scheme not being tailored to him? Cmon.

Maybe it should have happened in 2008. At least we'd have 3 years to know that he isn't the right choice to move this team into the future.

 

What about Chad Henne's past has made his future more certain? He's younger? He has a strong arm? Again, I say yay!

 

What this organization could do to inspire my long term hope:

Sharks. With like, frickin' lasers attached to their heads.


Also, a QB, a good G/C and a seam-busting TE.

 

I don't know if this was intended for me, but I think it was.

I'd go for Orton, but at the right price. What the Dolphins are rumored to be sticking at (a 4th/5th rd pick) seems correct. I actually think Chad Henne provides the "safest" short term feeling for me and the team. He has a heads up on the playbook, the players, etc. I would prefer to bring in someone that could compete with him, but I don't think the FO is enamored with Vince Young and if they don't get Orton, I believe their content with getting a Matt Moore type and going with Henne. I understand that though process, but again, Sparano and Ireland have tied their careers with the Miami Dolphins to his success. Is that smart? I wouldn't feel good about it

Kyle Orton is two years older than Chad Henne. Kyle Orton not only has better numbers than Henne, but has shown progression every year. Chad Henne has not. I can't see how people feel Chad Henne is a safer long term prospect than Kyle Orton.

Where is this coming from? Michigan? That was 4 years ago now. 2009? A year he had one of the best running games in the league, the long bomb threat everyone says he needs and he still was mediocre?

I mean if it wasn't that it was his first year in 2009. It was the poor play of everyone last year. I've just never heard more excuses made for a player in quite some time.

I wish people were this kind to Jay Fielder. People might remember how fun those years were for this franchise.

 

So we're supposed to wait on Chad Henne, but incapable of waiting on Chris Clemons? I mean if we use this logic we should wait on any young player because they're young and have talent. Everyone in the NFL has talent. Sometimes 6th rd QB's from Michigan are better than 1st rd QB's from Marshall. It happens.

You act like this team is devoid of talent. Almost makes it seem like it's the teams and FO's fault for providing him with the #2 rushing offense in 2009 and one of the fastest WR's. It seems like it's the FO's fault for providing him with one of the top defenses in 2010. I mean do we honestly need a play maker at every damn position for the guy to succeed? He'll never be Dan Marino because Dan Marino never even sniffed anything close to that.

This perfect world around Chad Henne doesn't exist. It didn't exist in Green Bay. Who was their seam busting TE when they won the Super Bowl last year? It wasn't Finley. How about that OLine that gave up some of the league's highest sack totals? I mean even the Super Bowl Champions had holes. How about that running game most of the year?

At some point the QB needs to win in spite of the team's weaknesses. Every successful team does it.

 

No matter how we slice it, this team, with Henne, Henning, Sparano, and company have struggled! No way do I want them to stand pat. They need to bring in a Qb this is, at the very least, as good.

Nothing wrong with having two Qb's go at it.

 

Henne has the tools he just doesn't have "it". He doesn't have a very high football IQ or else he panics under pressure , either of which is a non-starter for a star QB in the league.

i.e. 3rd and 1 to go, Henne drops back to pass, everyone is covered, he rolls to the right, 2 linebackers get a bead on him, he tucks the ball 8 yards behind the line of scrimmage lowers his head and charges forward like a bull, he's slow as mollasses, the linebackers converge, tackled for a 4 yard loss and we punt.

He doesn't see a wide-receiver all alone 1 yard past the first down marker wasving his hands furiously, he doesn't try and pump-fake the linebackers to buy more time to find an open receiver. He actually doesn't even have to pump fake, just pick up your head, there isn't a defender within 20 yards of the receiver. He won't make a football play like a good quarter back should do. He panics under pressure. I'm screaming my ****ing head off at the TV, throw the ball, he tucks theball and runs in an impossible situation where he has zero chance to make it. Effing moron. I've even saw him do this on a 4th down play, double effing moron.

There's just so much of that crap a fan can watch before you throw in the towel. I was a fan of Henne but he unmade me last year with plays like that. Can you teach a quarter-back to have good football instincts? He has the tools but he's such a ***** some times it's really embarrassing.

I stopped caring last year becaue of his horrific play, I knew he would find a way to give the game away, same bull**** this year? C'mon a fan has to have some hope, with Henne I only hope he doesn't **** his pants.

 

Did Pennington start 2010 as the starter? Did I miss something??? Wasn't Henne given the job?

 

In the Bank

 

The reason our young QB have struggled is because they're not talented enough... Sorry, but you can't turn chicken **** into chicken salad. AJ Feeley was never starting QB material. I loved his toughness, but that didn't translate into good decision making. Sage Rosenfels had few opportunities but never amounted to anything but quality backup. Pat White is a joke. And Henne is Henne. He'll make some nice plays here and there and **** it all up with a series of stupid plays.

Drew Brees is often the example cited when discussing QB development, but he's 1 in a million just as Tom Brady for being drafted so low. The fact is, QB with talent will rise to success. Henne is another quality backup in the long line of QB we've tried to make starters.

Want to inspire long term hope? Stop spending 2nd round picks on QB and invest a 1st rounder, in the draft, on quality prospects. How many QB have we passed on that have had success? Matt Ryan, Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, Joe Flacco, etc...

We need to make moves to get a true franchise QB. Until that happens, we're 3rd best in our division.

 

So, let me get this straight. It's the poor offensive scheme, play calling, inability for the defense to cause turnovers, not having play makers, etc etc etc etc as reasons for Chad Henne struggling or the team losing. Yet, it was Chad Henne as the reason winning those games?

Huh? No reason you like Henne. I'd I only took into consideration the team's wins and attributed them all to him, I'd like the guy too. Too bad, that's not reality.

Either way, at this point he's the starter and I wish him nothing but the best with full hope and want that I'm very incorrect.

 

I don't necessarily agree in that analogy.

Are those three very broad key ingredients to a good QB? Ya. They are for any player in the NFL. However many players never reach their potential that have those qualities.

Do you subscribe to Club? If so, there is an AWESOME post from alen that details it in a way I didn't know/understand. It absolutely makes me re-think my position on him. If not, let me know. I'd be willing to pony upmarket
a donation to get you in there and read it. It's good and I think you'd enjoy reading it.

 

Trading for Brandon Marshall wasn't an attempt to improve the talent?
Drafting John Jerry known as a better pass pro guy than Donald Thomas wasn't a move to help Henne?
Signing Ritchie Incognito to do the sane on the left, wasn't made with the intention of helping Henne?
Re-signing Ricky Williams after an 1100+ yd season wasn't made with intentions to improve the team?
Applying the 1st Rd tender on Ronnie Brown to deter offers and keep him a Dolphin wasn't a transaction made to help Henne?
Signing Kory Sheets to utilize his speed wasn't an idea to help Henne?
Signing Karlos Dansby to the richest contract at the time for an ILB to improve the defense wasn't aimed at helping Henne earn more wins and lessen the load on the offense?

They were one of, if not the most active team in FA.

And I disagree that giving a guy the QB job isn't going all in. This isn't like giving the job to an aging vet. The moves they made were with the intention to help Chad Henne. That's all we read about in the offseason last year.

What you've said has hindered Chad Henne has helped the New York Jets to two straight AFC appearances. Mark Danchez was frequently substituted for Brad Smith and LT to run the Wildcat. Schottenheimer was KILLED by the media for being conservative, settling for FG's, and relying on the defense. Yet, it hasn't hindered Sanchez.

I make the Sanchez reference because you said the Jets went all in with him.

Plus, it's tough to make all those moves when Miami believes they have those guys on the roster. That "outlet" back. Between Cobbs, Ronnie, and Ricky and their solid production in 09 and 10 in the receiving game, did you really believe that was an area of concern? Yet we still added Kory Sheets to bring explosiveness to the position.

I'm interested to know this when has a coordinator ever changed his playbook on the middle of a tenure? I ask that not sarcastically but looking for examples. And please don't harp on this to defend the argument because I'm interested in your response to the entire post. But, I know of coordinators calling different plays (i.e. Gailey spreading it out for Thigpen in KC), but those were plays and concepts in his playbook already.

 

What I think it comes down to is that you believe Chad Henne has top 12 talent. I don't believe that is the case. I don't believe he has upper echelon potential. I think he's potentially Kyle Orton...right now...which is some if my problem.

Talent doesn't equal success. So, saying that Henne's talent should give him first right of refusal in the eyes if Miami would be a huge mistake. Matter of factly, I think it's this notion of talent, that has Miami fans grasping to something that may not be there. I won't go into the names but Jeff George was a huge talent. Plenty of QB's not viewed as talented or weak, but were better than talent. You hear it all the time...hard work beats talent.

In your hypothetical, if Orton is brought in and Henne wins the job no stir will be created if he wins. If he doesn't then absolutely there should be calls for him to be replaced. A 3 year starter, not winning, when you've traded for a guy whose history shows he's s much better player. Again, that's where this idea that you just stick with him no matter what because he's young, and talented is incorrect IMO.

I'm really confused by your hypothetical scenario because other Dolfans are as short sighted IMO.

Why is Kyle Orton incapable of getting better? Especially when he's gotten better every year as a starter? When he's only 2 years older than Chad Henne? When past history shows he's more accurate down the field, scores more, and puts up better numbers?

I mean Tom Brady got better last year at his age. Jeff Garcia, Trent Green, and Rich Gannon hot better with age. Why are we making the assumption that he plateaus when he's gotten better every year? Why are we making the assumption that Henne gets better when numbers show he hasn't?

He's not even on Kyle Orton's track at this point.

Kyle Orton isn't marginally better than Chad at this point. He is flat out better, IMO.

Kyle Orton hasn't showed an ability to win games when his team around has played well? What about starting 15 out of 16 games his rookie year and leading the Bears to the Division Title? Is that good enough history? Has Chad Henne come close? What about a 6-0 start to the season in 2009 with a huge win over NE, before getting hurt?

In your hypothetical scenario you don't think he'd beat any good teams on his way to an 11-5 record?

Both scenarios would leave optimistic. I mean you're basically saying Henne has more upside and talent because he's two years younger, has a stronger arm (which makes him more talented), and because we drafted him.

 

You know who does for their QB. The Colts throw first round picks at skill position players regularly. It's crazy because they neglect their defense because of it. Manning is a damn good passer, and they made sure the person on the other end was a damn good receiver. They get good offensive players. Clark, Wayne, Stokley, Harrison, Garcon, Faulk, James, Addai, Brown, Collie. They also keep drafting O-Lineman and took two with their first two picks this year. It is sort of overkill, but that's the point. Saints have one million tall receivers for Brees and so does San Diego. Rodgers has Jennings, Driver, Nelson, Jones, and Finley. Atlanta even had to get another first round WR. We have no WR's drafted in the first, and only one with first round talent.

 

Parcells-style team. You win with power running, hard-nosed defense and throw only when you have to. At least that's my sense of it.

Where it gets weird is when Ross buys the team and tells the regime he wants flashy, exciting offensive football.

That's where the weird disconnect begins. Not sure this regime can overcome it's Parcellian-DNA to deliver that, no matter how much they may intend to do so.

 

double-posted by mistake. oops.

 

Well, I feel like they were trying to please two masters with Marshall. "We give Ross a guy who's name and reputation are buzzy so he feels like he gets his flash, but we get a big physical kid who will block and has size." Honestly, I think a lot of their moves are now trying to split the difference between what they want and the high-scoring, spread type offense Ross seems to want.

Thing is, splitting the difference never works. You HAVE to have full commitment to one identity. Otherwise things don't mesh.

Look back on those St. Louis Rams teams, the greatest show on turf, and so on... it was not power-football coaches trying to please their boss by throwing a few flashy frills on things and looking like a passing team.

I dunno. This year's gonna be weird, I think. Sparano's gonna try to do enough of what he needs (power run) and give Ross only as much as he has to of what Ross wants, imo. In Sparano's head, he'd be thrilled with 40 minutes of possession and a 14-6 win every week. Ross wants to be a top offense in the league, from what I gather. he can;t build a glamorous South Beach brand out of a stingy defense, I guess?

I think it's a misbegotten marriage and I just don;t see it ending well. the only thing that could have worked was if Sparano were willing to bring in a very avant garde, high octane Offensive Co-ordinator and give him carte blanche with the offense. But Sparano would never do that.

Anyways, I'm concerned about how the dual-purposes will affect the offense this year.

 

Nope. That isn't what am saying nor did I infer that within any of that piece. He has had a year to learn the game (2008). He had a year in which he started 12-13 games in 2009. He was the anointed starter in 2010. How much time do you give a guy? I dunno the answer to that question. That's why I say Sparano and Ireland have hitched their wagon to the success of Henne. Everyone has lost the luster of that 2008 season. With winning, and the choices this team made in the acquisition department, a lot of anticipation was set for this team.

This time last year, I was extremely excited about Chad Henne. That luster has wore off as well with his poor play last year. Although, with alen's most recent post in Club, I've re-thought my position on where blame lies (or the bulk of it).

 

The Colts have been fairly even about throwing skill positions at Manning. They've used 1st round picks of Wayne, Gonzalez, Addai, Brown, and James. The Colts, by all means a better run organization than Miami, do a great job of utilizing the draft. Miami has chosen to go a separate way in drafts and the FA/trade route.

But also beggars can't be choosers here. Chad Henne has a lot of comparable/better talent than some QB's who play better than him.

 

The Colts are better run than at least 25 teams in the league, so to say better run than Miami ain't saying much. Bill Polian is the best GM in the biz IMO.

 

Todd, i'm with you brother .... still maintain that Henne will be a successful QB in this league - with us or not.

while i haven't been one to make excuses for him -- this will be his last chance here.

with Ronnie and Ricky gone, Crowder gone .... Marshall in good shape for the 1st time in a couple years - and likely 'top 5' defense ... Henne will shoulder all disdain from this board and PHANS this year.

Regardless, this will NOT be a 'Suck for Luck' year .... will won't finish worse than .500 UNLESS Henne goes down again, and we're stuck with Moore.

 

I don't see how starting Penny during Chad Henne's rookie season was 'not marrying the QB'. Most teams start rookie QBs because they don't have a choice. A good QB fell into our laps. In 2009 and then again in 2010 we did essentially nothing at the QB position with the intention of Chad Henne being the franchise. I don't see how anybody can say there was no commitment to Chad Henne. It was really no secret that the regime wanted him to be the man and he started almost two full seasons. They did everything short of making some stupid nickname for him that rhymes with 'franchise'.

 

I think Desides once said (I think it was him) that when someone makes an argument that a QB can make all the throws, it's usually because they can't think of anything else nice to say. Henne has the physical tools but not mentally capable of being anything more than a backup. Physically, maybe he is first round talent. But he fell in the draft for a reason. look at the history of 2nd round QB and their chances for greatness. Drew Brees (the first pick of the 2nd round) comes to mind, but that's about it. If a QB isn't good enough for round 1, then he's likely not good enough period. Henne has done nothing to inspire confidence. He's a career backup at best IMO.

. I find it hard to believe you were objective. This isn't meant as a personal attack, so I hope you don't take it that way, but you're Henne's biggest fan. It's never his fault. hell, I've been there. Back in the Phinzone.com days, I always defended Fiedler (still do to some extent). I just can't take your word for it. I've seen Ryan play and I've seen Henne play (obviously I watch 16 games a year for Miami so i know Henne better) and I don't see the comparison between the two. One is very good and the other isn't.


R

Could it be Ryan's development was accelerated because he's far more mentally talented? Coming into the league, Ryan was touted as having all the mental intangibles but not necessarily the physical. Henne was the opposite. Three years into their careers and it shows.

Oh yes it does... Check the stats. The odds of being a successful NFL QB in the NFL has correlation to where he was drafted. 1st round QB win SB on a level FAR greater than non first rounders. Especially in the modern era.

Henne was touted as having all the same experience being a 4 year starter coming from Michigan's pro style offense... Matt Ryan had WAY less playing time than Henne did in college. And Henne had a lot more baggage on the football field. He never lived up to expectations.

Henne's had three years... Being mentored by Chad Pennington. He has never produced.

I hope he's a pro bowl type player this year. I really do. Come Sunday, September-January, I will watch every game. I'll spend money at the bar every game, and I hope we win every game. I'd love nothing more than to see Henne be the player everyone hopes he can be. At the end of the day, if he's not, we're ****ed for another 5 years, trying to rebuild, trying to get another ****ing QB, and suffering through more 8-8 type seasons. And you don't get those Sam Bradford types at pick 15...

 

What this franchise could do to give me hope is to draft a QB in the first round of the draft... I don't understand how complicated this is, if u have a strong need at QB why not draft the best one available when you pick? Finding a franchise QB is not that difficult, just draft the best QB on the board when u pick, here is who we have missed on Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, etc ......... why the Dolphins simply cant draft a QB in the first round is idiotic! Instead we try to find fools gold in picking up other teams left overs..honestly please give me a job.. ill make this team a playoff contender in 2 years,, instead the team is hopeless!

 

Nice post TP. I totally support giving Henne another year with a new OC and better cast around him. The only thing that bothers me is Chad's lack of a long ball

 

In theory it sounds good but in reality Miami has not been in a position to marry good young QB. Here is a list of QBs Miami could have drafted under this regime that were drafted...

2008
Matt Ryan #3
Joe Flacco #18
Brian Brohm #56
Chad Henne #57
Kevin O’Connell #94
John David Booty #137
Dennis Dixon #156
Josh Johnson #160
Erik Ainge #162
Colt Brennan #186
Matt Flynn #209

2009
Pat White #44
Stephen McGee #101
Rhett Bomar #151
Nate Davis #171
Keith Null #196
Curtis Painter #201

2010
Tim Tebow #25
Jimmy Clausen #48
Colt McCoy #85
Mike Kafka #122
John Skelton #155
Jonathan Crompton #168
Rusty Smith #176
Dan LeFevour #181
Tony Pike #204
Levi Brown #209
Sean Canfield #239
Zac Robinson #250

2011
Andy Dalton #35
Colin Kaepernick #36
Ryan Mallet #74
Ricky Stanzi #135
Taylor Yates #152
Nathan Enderle #160
Tyrod Taylor #180
Greg McElroy #208

Sanchez, Freeman, Bradford, Stafford all gone by the time Miami was on the board. And Miami has had way too many holes to trade numerous high draft picks to move up. Outside of Ryan, whom is overrated and we took one of the best LT in history 3 years into his career, who would have been worth trying to build the franchise around?

It isn't that this regime doesn't think we need a young franchise QB to build around it is there have NOT been any clear cut QBs to worthy of trying. Henne was as good as any. Which QB on that list stands out? None