If I have to eat my words on all the stupid Thigpen threads because our front office can't do better........... I think they are doing the right thing. 2nd for Orton is too much. Price should come down. Young will be available. After that, we have...well........Thigpen
I live in Chicago and witnessed the Orton era. He is lame....Sure he had numbers at Denver...It seems like anyone can have numbers there. Orton is not the answer. He is like packing a bologna sandwich every day...You know what you have, you know what to expect, it will keep you going but nothing to get excited about....
While I agree we need legit competition at QB, which Orton would provide, I couldn't care less what Hartline thinks. IMO, he is as big a wimp and as contact shy as many here accused Ginn of being, and has nowhere near the speed of Ginn to go with his wimpiness.
It's all our various opinions, but it is telling too that no one else ever gave Brown or Foerster a job as OC before or after their time with us. Either NFL or college. Both were in over their heads as OC when in that role for us.
Yea...You probably agreed with the Culpepper pick over Breeze too huh.... Orton will not bring this franchise back to respectability. It would be a safe pick if the GM there has no sack.
We don't agree on a lot of decisions over the years. One thing that most agree on is the fact that we need someone to push Henne. Do you have other options you could bring to the table? Orton or Young is about all we have at this point. Regardless, the team has improved just from losing Henning.
What about our trading for Culpepper and Feeley? We sure didn't turn down those great opportunities. LOL. Seems like we say no when we should say yes, Hasselbeck the first time, and Brees either time, and yes when we should say no. Of course we cannot blame this regime for any of those mistakes.
IMO this regime doesn't have a year or two. Next year they better win, or its bye-bye time. This FA makes or breaks Jeff Ireland. He fails to land some game changers he is gone. The better GM's are going to shine in the next 7-10 days. Ireland needs to be REALLY shiny.
That's the issue here. You don't care about next year's draft. And it's not your job to care about next year's draft. However it is Ross, Ireland and possibly Sparano's job to care about next year's draft. The QB class that comes out next year has the potential to be the best since Manning/Rivers/Roethlisberger. We've thrown 2nd round pick after 2nd round pick towards mediocre QBs the past decade. Culpepper, Feely, Beck, Henne and White and where has it left us? 12 years after Marino retired still looking for a QB who can just be adequate. Throwing another 2nd round pick away on Orton is just going to continue to perpetuate this cycle. Spending that 2nd rounder not only hamstrings you in the ability to deal picks in next year's draft to move up to get one of those (potentially) elite QBs but also dissuades you from wanting to attempt to get them due to the investment already made on Orton. What makes you think that Kyle Orton is worth sacrificing next year's draft? Is it his 79.6 career rating? How about his 71 TDs to 62 TOs? Or perhaps it's the fact that he's never won a playoff game as a starter? Stop me when I figure it out please.
Franchise quarterback with a career 79 rating who's never won a playoff game? Care to elaborate how that works?
Just heard on NFLN, LaConfora said they think (whoever they are) that Orton could likely be had for a third rounder. Said Miami and Arizona most likely landing spots (per LaConfora). FWIW...
Totally agree, same thing with Palmer 3rd at the most. But part of me would not mind a 2nd if it means to keep Vince Young from the Dolphins, but that is not the brightest way to do business.
Agreed, a 3rd is what he is worth. I'd rather stick to that, and face the other options if they don't accept, than to over pay for a "quick fix"- eventhough I think Young will have a hard time beating out Henne.
Not getting Orton/Palmer/any other QB does not equal getting Young. The two are mutually exclusive. And while I'm in the minority here (what I like to call rational thinkers ) I don't believe that the NFL is simply going to give us an 0-16 record for starting Chad Henne week 1. I'm not in favor of giving up a 2nd round pick for anyone. I'm not of those who believes you hold onto every single draft pick you can for the sake of having them, but I am a believer in spending them intelligently. Spending draft picks on a mediocre QB with so many better options on the horizon is just not intelligent. The issue that scares me the most is that Sparano is in the last year of his contract, he knows if he doesn't perform this year he's gone, and even if he doesn't perform well enough he's gone. And while Ireland's job is most likely safe (as most NFL teams don't make a habit of firing the Coach AND the GM) he may feel some level of loyalty to Sparano and combined the two may make a bad deal just to make a change at the QB position hoping that it buys him/them another year.
No thank-youI want one year where we build around chad, play to his strengths and actually show some damn confidence in the man. If we lose we will go after a new QB next year(in the draft), but Kyle Orton is not a solution to anything IMO.
Yeah, I'm not as much a fan of Orton as some others in here may be. I certainly don't see him as the long term answer. But, if he can be had for a third rounder, can be restructured, and gives us a bridge at QB until we can find a franchise QB somehow somewhere, well...yeah, I guess I'm cool with it. He does bring some leadership and stability to the position IMHO. I'd still rather have Palmer, but I guess that's just not gonna happen.
Doesn't he have 3 years on his contract ? He had next year already, and was given a two year extention by Ross after the Harbaugh fiasco.
Correction: REALISTICALLY Sparano is in the last year of his contract. If you read the rest of the post you would have known what I meant
Why? What is so magical about a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round pick? What is the purpose of a Draft Choice other then to acquire talent, does it matter if such talent comes in the Draft? I say it does in the sense that the draft pick is a guaranteer of NOTHING..da Nada, they bust out all of the time, and yet, there is some magic associatied with them that is baffling. "No! Do not acquire an upgrade, keep the pick..we do not know who it will be, whether they can play, and whether they even remain healthy" I know, we can start "2nd rd pick" at Qb, just lay a sheet of paper with "Dolphins 2nd rd selection" type on it behind Pouncey and we are set! rant/off
Not sure what your trying to say? Are you trying to say even if they get Palmer/Orton they will still get Young. Because what I was implying was if they don't get Palmer/Orton it looks as though Young will be the next option (with Hasselback probably going to Tenn). I agree also that I'm not fond of the Sparano/Ireland lame duck situation as well. My fear is that to save their jobs they may affect their successors resources to find that ever alluding franchise quarterback. But though I may not like it, it is their right to do so.
What's so magic about Draft Picks? This: The NFL draft pick value chart We could acquire an "upgrade" (as you put it) who in all actuality is a pretty mediocre QB or we could hold onto draft picks to make a power play in next year's draft. And for the record, franchise quarterbacks don't bounce around to 3 teams in the span of 4 years.
For fun let's play count the busts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NFL_Draft 07: Sears, Davis, Beck, Ugoh, Jarrett, Irons, Henry, McBride, Francis, Alexander, Piscitelli Bazuin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NFL_Draft 08: Thomas, Hardy, Kelly etc 09:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NFL_Draft 10: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NFL_Draft Compared to 20 td's and 12 or so int's, how many Qb's taken in the second rd in the last 5 drafts have put up those numbers>?
Sometime it's not about the player you can pick, it's the ammunition. If they had it this year the would have traded up for Locker (Their #1).
Are you even reading the posts or just making **** up as you go along? Who here is talking about drafting a QB in the 2nd round? We're talking about conserving resources to move up in the first round to take one of the QBs coming out next year.
I don't have the time right now, but I was wanting to go look up all the 3rd round draft picks we've had over the past 10 years and compare them to Orton.
Same could be asked of you, so allow me to reiterate, how many Qb's, taken in the second rd in the last 5 yrs have thrown 20 td's in a single season? -As for next season? Hmm, perhaps one enjoys losing, and the typical "oh, you have to wait 3 yrs for a qb to develop" nonsense, others do nto share that same enthusiasm for such a addled strategy in the first place.
you'll be surprised at how inefficient the Draft really is at acquiring talent in any given round. For example, the 09 second rd? 40% or so have busted, been traded, or suffered serious injuries...already. The key to such strategy is to make sure there is quality control in place, for example trading a #2 and a #5 for a 33 yr old JT who was due 9 million the following season was an example of poor value, but we held up our end of the deal and that pick became Pat White. And these are professionals making these moves...
Padre, I'm just wanting to see who they were and if their still on the team. What I'm saying is if we give a 3rd for Orton, (which I'm good with), how would he rank with the past 3rd round picks for the Dolphins over the past 10 years.
Well under this regime that would be Kendall Langford, John Jerry, and Patrick Turner (this years third we dealt to move up for Thomas). Langford over Orton imo as Langford is one of the top 5 at his position. Other two...Orton.
9 QBs have been drafted in the 2nd round in the past 5 years. 3 of them by the Dolphins. Only one of them, Chad Henne, have gotten any extensive play time. The other 8, Jimmy Clausen, Pat White, Brian Brohm, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens and Tarvaris Jackson haven't or never did get an opportunity to start to ahave a chance of putting up those numbers. But no, none of them have thrown for 20 TDs and 12 INTs. At the same time, 20 TDs and 12 INTs has been Ortons best statistical season in 6 years. His average is roughly 14 TDs, 10 INTs (and that's not counting the 2006 season where he lodged no stats.) You say I like losing. I say I like having a commitment to winning, key word there being commitment. You say "oh, you have to wait 3 yrs for a qb to develop" is nonsense. I submit to you Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees. The top 5 (arguably) QBs in the game today. Each of these guys were drafted by their team and either sat behind a veteran for a year or two or even more in Rodgers case, or looked horrible at the beginning of their careers (Brees and Manning.) It takes time to develop a QB and these 5 guys are living proof of it. You can't keep throwing draft picks away every year or every other year trying to catch lightning in a bottle with another teams QB cast offs. Denver traded for Kyle Orton, how'd that work out for them? A year later they drafted Tebow and now they're trying to get rid of Orton. What realistic proof do you have that would make me think that coming to Miami is automatically going to turn him into a player he hasn't been for the first 6 years of his career.
2000 CB Ben Kelly 2001 LB Morlan Greenwood RB Travis Minor 2002 C Seth McKinney 2003 G Taylor Whitley T Wade Smith 2004 No Pick 2005 LB Channing Crowder 2006 WR Derek Hagan 2007 RB Lorenzo Booker 2008 DE Kendall Langford 2009 WR Patrick Turner 2010 G John Jerry
T-Jax did start, and now the point is made. Hmm, let us examine those names you mentioned: -Manning? #1 overall -Rivers? #4 overall, traded for the #1 overall pick Eli Manning -Brees, he started ahead of..Phil Rivers, then destroyed his shoulder and hit FA Rivers sat for 1 yr or 2 yrs -Brady, perhaps we should stockpile late rd picks to try and match the pats fortune in hitting on him? -Rodgers, sat 3 yrs behind Bret Favre Apparently to get a "franchise Qb" you either: pick Top 5 have a starting Qb and then draft a guy to develop him...with a high pick Get very lucky with a later rd pick And Eli Manning? He sat behind Kurt Warner. Which of those factors do you suppose we will achieve in the 2011-12 draft? And the Jets waived Penington, who was coming off a poor season, yet when healthy returned to form.
If they are gunna get Orton, do it. Make it happen now. Stop the bull****. And get them in training camp stat!
To be fair to this regime, I think we need to see who they drafted in the 3rd round in Dallas. In the 11 drafts since 2000, we've had four different regimes.
the two #2's for Marshall? Sergio Kindle, who may never play in the NFL, and Orlando Franklin. Would you trade Marshall for those two straight up, right now?
Ireland is going to pay his price for Orton, a 3rd rd pick reportedly, though I've read a 4th or 5th pick mentioned as well. Watch, Orton will wind up in AZ.
