I am against bringing in any vet QB we have to give up picks to get. IMHO, we need to save our picks to trade up and get a star QB in next year's draft. Ross should make it clear to Sparano that he won't be allowed to sabotage our new coach that we will inevitably have next season in a desperate and futile attempt to save his job.
And why spend a whole season on Chad Henne? 3 yrs on him? "Sorry fans, we were going to bring someone else in, but Henne needed 16 more games, no refunds" The Dolphins problem in a nut shell, for decades, the moves we have opportunities to make, that are not made.
We just LOVE to burn draft picks. It's an addiction at this point that spans through every mgmt. team we've had since Shula. You've got as good as or a better QB in Hasselback hitting FA and according to this were focusing on Orton who will cost us picks. Culpepper/Brees again. If we do look to trade picks I'd much rather press the Palmer situation. I would prefer we go full bore on Hasselbeck and use McNabb as a backup option. STill think with the timing and delay on FA that Henne will be the guy as long as he dosent crap the bed. I also still believe Henne has the potential to be very good. He certainly isn't past the development timeline that a lot of good QB's have gone through. Many people ignore that.
The thing with Orton in terms of making a deal, is that we may have some pieces that Denver might, and I mean might be interested in lue of just draft picks. Maybe this team decides to let Yeremiah Bell go, or Will Allen and or Benny Sapp, maybe even Merling - although I don't think he necessarily fits their scheme. Should we decide to do something like this it might be beneficial in terms of saving draft picks. But, the cost is that we become even younger on defense as we have more younger players having to fill roles which may creates some of its own problems. Hopefully we try to use a blend of the two to get the guy, if we are indeed going after him. Maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder, Bell and or Sapp would get a deal close enough. I'd rather us keep our 2nd rounder if we can.
Maybe so. But I want what's best for the team, not Sparano, Ireland, Henne or any individual. And I certainly don't see Kyle friggin Orton as the key ingredient that's going to save anyone's job. I keep hearing about these numbers he put up in Denver, but he wasn't playing under Henning, he wasn't a first/2nd time starter, and he definitely wasn't playing half of his games against the Jets, Patriots, Ravens, Steelers, Bears and Packers the way Henne did last year.
On the topic of QB's but unrelated to Orton, per rotoworld: Free agent Matt Moore was spotted walking out of the Panthers facility without a playbook Tuesday. The assumption here is that Moore won't be re-signed by the Panthers. He already admitted to the media that he isn't optimistic and there are reports that the Dolphins have some interest in him. The Panthers are ready to move forward with Cam Newton, Jimmy Clausen and a maybe a veteran bridge. Related: Dolphins Source: Steve Reed on Twitter Jul 26, 11:05 AM
He certainly isn't past the development timeline that [Kyle Orton] have gone through. Many people ignore that. Fixed.
Id flat out take Moore over Orton. Paying a pick and a insane salary for a QB no better then a guy I can scoop off FA without draft pick compensation is crazy.
If you like that, you'll love what he did at Indy and vs Tampa. Single handedly gave the games away. Ditto at Pittsburgh late in the year. Not to mention he's officially quit on his team. But Shhhh, he's our saviour.
Aye, but you have the luxury of evaluating in a vacuum. It's not your money that rides on Henne improving significantly, and it's not your job that depends on it. If Henne doesn't pan out, you have the luxury to say, oh well, it was worth a try, and root for the next guy. And while that's certainly fine and dandy for a fan, it isn't sensible to expect people who operate under a whole different set of circumstances to arrive at the same evaluations you do.
Kyle Orton would do just find @ a bargain price. its all about competition & treasure. there are many others that can bring something to the table & are looking for a second chance to compete for a start. Henne doesn't exactly present a high bar in the QB stable. we need to compete not deplete. the only QB worth a serious investment is Carson Palmer should he become available. if the franchise QB does not arise in 2011, there will be a bunker crop of possibility in the next draft, provided we have the resources to go after the best.
Good point. Orton playing in a very similar system under McDaniels, would make him seem the most logical option for us to pursue. His learning curve would be little if any. I'd not taken the similarity in the backgrounds of Daboll and McDaniels into consideration. This makes going after Orton seem all the more reasonable and all of Padre's clambering about him the past 5 months make more sense.
I like him because he is bald headed. My favorite all time QBs are YA Tittle, Terry Bradshaw and Matt Hasselbeck.
we need a to invest in an elite pro-bowl caliber left guard. keep it simple, not necessary to complicate things
Nail on the head, I am sure Brian has informed them of what QB to pursue based on how knows the system best, and who "fits" the system the best out of who is available...
20.6PPG in a QB friendly offense with Orton starting is not an upgrade over what Henne brings at 17 PPG with a OC dumber then a stump, no running game, and a really good WR having by far his worst year. Denver scored 343 minus the 3 games that Tebow started and clearly played better with Tebow. And keep in mind much of what Orton did was in garbage time (see below for backing up of said claim): Baltimore was up 24-7 at the 11 minute mark...Denver scored 10 points with game out of reach: http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=301010033 St Louis was up 33-13 entering 4th Qtr...Orton went for 150 and 2 TD with game practically out of reach: http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=301128007 Arizona was up 29-6 before letting up a late TD...this game got Orton benched for Tebow: http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=301212022 Orton had a nasty habit last year of letting his team fall behind and stat padding late. There were a few more examples I could have cherry-picked at but these were clear as day especially if you watched the games at all. When it was close and late (4th quarter, within 7) Orton's stats were pitful; lower then 50% completion rate and 58.4 QBR. You can see from the splits that Denver played from behind a lot and his stats in the fourth quarter when behind 9-16 points are higher then other teams; partially a product of how bad Denver was but stat padding all the same: http://www.nfl.com/player/kyleorton/...tuationalstats Also, orton's home/road splits are disturbing and you have to wonder if this is a product of Mile High altitude: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...0/splits/2010/ Specifically: 8.71 YPA at home 6.14 YPA on the road.
"Orton let" Come on man, this is the joy of playing with the 32nd ranked defense and the 27th ranked rushing offense, Orton did not let anything happen. And, his TD split, 1st half v 2nd half showed 3 additional Td's in the second half and it should be pointed out that at least in your Rams game example, he very nearly lead a comeback from being 21 pts down, as for "mile high product" Could be, his numbers in 08 with the Bears are more around 6.4 ypa, still if his Bears season is his baseline he will do fine.
Part of that D ranking is because Orton couldnt lead drives early on when the game was still in question. Not all of it obviously as you dont to 32nd by accident but some of it has to fall on the offenses inability to hold the ball. But I get it, they have the 27th ranked rushing offense, we have the 21st but orton is not to blame but Henne is? Sounds fair. Look, Denver sucked and Orton is in part to blame for that. We were mediocre and Henne was in part to blame for that. Difference being Orton is 31, played in a QB friendly offense and is at a stage where he should be leading. Henne is 25, played with an incompetent OC leading the way, and is still in the developing stage. Orton's career numbers are more in line with what Henne did last year. Orton's road numbers are more in line what Henne did last year. No way shape or form would I even give up a 7th for Kyle Orton at 9M next year. Hell bleepin no bro. Do not want unless its as a backup without draft pick compensation involved and seeing as how that wont happen let someone else be the sucker
He's 28. And Orton has thrown 41 TDs to 21 INTs in his last two seasons. Henne has thrown 27 to 33. Look, I get that some people don't like Orton. It's not like he's my dream QB come true, either. But at some point you have to acknowledge that, for whatever reason, Orton has put up numbers that are in a different ballpark from what we've seen from Chad Henne so far. If you want to give Henne another go at it, that's fine. But let's not pretend that they have been equally successful, because that's just not the case.
IMO that reason was a better OC. Prior to the better OC, Orton produced no better (actually worse) than Henne.
I didnt say they were equally successful. And in the most important stat whats their W/L record? Henne was 7-8 last year, Orton "lead" his team to 3-10 as starter.
This just isn't true. Kyle Orton when ahead: 96.4 QBR Kyle Orton when tied: 89.4 QBR Kyle Orton when behind: 84.4 QBR The numbers speak for themselves. Thats not stat padding. In regards to his performance on the road, I'm not sure one season makes a trend. In 2009, he had a 96 QBR on the road, which was significantly higher than at home.
Id rather sign Young then trade picks for Orton. Actually its very true, you just didnt see it. 3rd line to the bottom reads as follows: 4th Quarter within 7 67 33 49.3 366 5.5 31 1 2 16 23.9 6 5 58.4 http://www.nfl.com/player/kyleorton/2506444/situationalstats
You could make that argument for any OC thats been in the league long enough. The fact remains, the offense nose-dived once the QB changed.
I'm not sure how proves he "padded" his stats??? Just to clarify, you do accept the fact his QBR when ahead was 12 points higher than when he was behind?
That point wasnt made to prove he padded his stats, it was made to prove what an average QB looks like on a bad team when theyre losing. I accept that his QB was 12 points higher when they were winning but they were 3-10 with him starting so they werent winning very much. I know, must have all fallen on the defense. You cant take an average QB on a bad team and expect him to turn you average team in to a Super Bowl contender. It doesnt work like that. Do you accept that?
I find it interesting that you accuse Orton of stat padding, when he actually has decent to very good numbers while playing ahead or with the game tied. Incidentally, Chad Henne's numbers are woeful when playing ahead or with a tied game and much like Orton, he has his best numbers when trailing by 9-16. The difference being that Orton actually plays pretty well when the game's still open or he's ahead, while Henne only has decent numbers when he's already in a hole.
I didnt accuse Orton of anything; I factually stated it. He plays his best when the game is out of hand. And then the stats I laid out pretty much backed up everything I said. Im aware of Henne's numbers...my point is people think the grass is greener and its not...its actually the same shade of brown. Except you're giving draft pick compensation for the same thing you already have; mediocre QB play.
Clayton is saying Orton will cost a 3rd round pick He is also saying, if VYoung doesn't go to Mia, he doesn't see where he would go.....
Yeah, you just kinda neglected to mention that he still plays pretty well when he's ahead or the game's tied. Which basically makes him precisely not the thing we already have, because the thing we already have plays awful when clinging to a lead or faced with a tied ballgame. Which, I might add, are the actually relevant game situations. For all I care, they could have a 110 rating or a 25.5 rating when trailing by a mile. I want a quarterback that produces when the game's still to be had and that, my friend, is Orton, not Henne. Sorry, but your own stats bite you in the rear end on this one
