He was completely forgettable. Edds maybe should help the ST's, Hawkeyes typically are well coached when entering the NFL.
That'd be the Steelers game. Henne was pretty damn good vs GB, if Marshall gets his other toe down Henne has a 3 TD game. First drive was a TD, 2nd drive was moving well and then the INT where Marshall fell down. There was the 4th and 1 drive where Ronnie got the first but the refs blew the spot and the replay. It was an all around good performance by the entire offense save for a few bad plays and bad play calls (toss sweep on 3rd and 14 inside the 30). Anyhow, a season is way to long to try and remember accurately. If you want to know what really happened, invest some time into watching the games again, if not, you're gonna continue to be confused.
coming from the guy who refuses to rewatch games. remember the Marshall missed TD because he couldn't get his 2nd foot in despite having room to do so? I can't believe you're complaining about a game we won where Henne played well.
Does anyone else see a pattern here? Henne throws an interception trying to get the ball to Brandon Marshall. Look at the NE game. He forces one to Brandon and doesn't see the linebacker dropping underneath him. INT. His second INT came on a play where he looked at Brandon too long and went to Patrick Cobbs too late. Cobbs had his man beat, but the hesitation by Henne because he waited to see if Marshall came open caused Ninkovich to get a step and pick that pass off. Against GB, he throws a pick towards Marshall that gets picked off because Marshall falls down. Against NE, Henne's third INT comes on a shallow cross to Marshall where Marshall stops his route. Henne threw 19 interceptions on the year, and I bet you at least 7 of them were thrown when he was trying to target Brandon Marshall.
Thanks for the time DJ... The issue with Henne's sitdown ensued after the OL's and WR performance or lack there of after week 8 IIRC... Hartline went out a few weeks after week 8 IIRC, and the new guys just were not in sinc with their QB and they had seperation issues... my two cents...
You can't throw out the "he didn't score points" argument, and then say you don't want to talk about the other pieces that most certainly had a huge part in the lack of scoring points. You don't like Henne...I get it. However, I think that with a different OC, a line that blocks, and an average run game, that Henne can be quite good. So, I do believe that Henne could, and probably was, benched more because he didn't fit with what Henning was trying to do...and not so much because the coaches thought that Henne sucked.
Teams were keying on Marshall all year, and for good reason. If we can get the run game going, some credible threats at other spots on the field, and find more creative ways to get Marshall the ball I think we'll be in business. I actually think Marshall is better served as the flanker. We can use his blocking over there, and assuming we can run the ball, it'll be easier to get him one on one matchups if we can force opposing strong safeties into the box to help vs the run. Whatta you think?
I see a pattern KB. Henning failed to use Marshall correctly; we had to protect with 7 often; and our playmaker had coverage draped on him because we couldn't spread out the field while having a predictable offense telegraphing what's coming. Coverage was pretty tight everywhere IIRC so I think the INTs wouldve happened regardless of where he tried to go. Only so many passes he can throw away IMO. I can tolerate a few extra INTs if it means better overall production and a more explosive offense.
I just don't like Brandon Marshall and wish he was off the team. I think we overpaid to get him, and he's always going to be a distraction. Plus, by mid season, Davone Bess was getting double teamed just as much as Brandon Marshall was. I do agree that getting some speed on the field at other positions, either the other receiver spot in multiple wide sets or the tight end spot, then maybe teams won't be able to play bracket coverage on him. However, that just shows you how dependent the wide receiver position is and how Marshall has very little effect on the game by himself. It shows you how we severely overpaid to get him. It was a desperation move that I hope Jeff looks upon in retrospect and sees was a gross error.
Cannot let you get away with that one Bro: -2010 #2 pick Sergio Kindle, will he ever play in the NFL after fracturing his skull and catching DWI #2? Keep in mind his first one he passed out and ran into a building and ran away from his car. -2011 #2 pick Orlando Franklin, knee balky enough to require a revisit to the Combine to see if it had swollen up Marshall had our first 1,000 season from a Wr in 6 yrs, put it this way, would you trade those two straight up for Brandon Marshall? Not..a..chance.
No. It was the Packers game. Again, in my post, which you quoted, it was an indictment on Henne. I said he was playing OK and didn't seem like somebody that was hindering our ability to win football games. However, the Packers was the first game in a line where we had serious difficulties in scoring TD's. Yes, the Brandon Marshall TD catch should be a ball he comes down with. Yes, Chad Henne played well. But, again don't remember the fact that if we don't get a penalty flag on a call that might not have been called against any team for the rest of the year, we don't score a TD to Fasano. So, you can play the what if game all you'd like--about him not getting a 3rd TD, and the INT where Marshall fell down, all true points, but don't forget to use it when it goes against Henne. And that is we moved the ball well in the 1st half and scored only 10 points. We moved the ball OK in the second half and if not for a penalty call in our favor, we lose the game. Again, because we failed to score TDs. The attempted point of debasing my argument because I haven't re-watched the games is true. Matter of fact, again, it seems as though some people fail to read what I say, because you read what you want to read and comment on it, but I said that don't need to re-watch and my knowledge of the games, season may not be as strong as some, you included. With that said, anything I said above regarding the game untrue? Nope.
Complaining? Where am I bashing Henne and complaining about him in this phrase? I said it wasn't Henne. I said he looked OK. But, that was the start of a trend in not being able to score TD's. Again, you all LOVE to play the what if game in regards to Chad Henne. Well, play if fairly. What if a BS penalty that is NEVER called against anyone isn't called? Anthony Fasano doesn't score that TD. Do we win that game? Who knows. And I could careless what you say about me watching the games. I have no interest in breaking the team down. I'm not qualified to do it, I'm qualified to do the job I have now. And, if that's something you do, more power to you, and enjoy.
Yes. I would trade Brandon Marshall for those two. Of course, I would have taken someone other than Sergio Kindle with that pick. Heck, I'd trade Marshall just to get him off the team.
Hahaha. It always, and I mean ALWAYS comes to this (you don't like Henne/you like Henne). What's so hard to understand about this? This isn't my opinion here. The coaching staff benched a healthy Chad Henne. How is that not an indictment on his play? I'm not going to quote what I say, because you did it already--which makes it even more confusing on what's hard to understand. Let's use your thought. You think he was benched because he didn't fit with what Dan Henning was trying to do. Why draft him then? Why name him the starter at the beginning of the year? Why continue to play him down the stretch over Tyler Thigpen? If the offense would have scored more TD's/points with Chad Henne at the helm, does he get benched? The answer is No. I mean the coaches and players were glowing in praise of Chad Henne before 2010. Then it all stopped, not only stopped but it was the complete opposite as the players were visibly lacking confidence in him and the change was made. I wanted to not address the "you don't like Henne" crap, but I have to. Mainly because it's such a crap argument. It's almost baiting me to respond, well you clearly like Henne, so that's why this yadda yadda yadda. Bias will always play a part in everyone's formation of an opinion. However, if you go and check out my posting history, I've always said Dan Henning didn't help, we did a poor job developing the guy, he didn't have the best parts last year. But, they were good enough to win and good enough to be better than he played. Also, in 2009 he had two of the three things you think would make him a good QB (line that blocks, GREAT run game) and yet he had the same under-performing year.
Of course, as if the offense wasn't crappy enough. Point being, look at that trade, two guys with injury problems, one who may never play, heck who has still not been cleared even to practice, and yet "gosh, don't trade draft choices!" persists. Do think it is quite funny how that trade turned out, almost an indictment of the hooplah around the draft... NFL is a playmakers league KB, no escaping that reality, solid staid picks really do not offer what playmakers do.
Henne had bad games, I'm certain of that. I'm also certain he wasn't as bad as some people would like to think. I don't need to look at all the games to tell me who is to blame (no offense DJ, I'm glad you feel the desire to go rewatch games). I know sometimes it fell on Henne, sometimes Henning, sometimes the OL, sometimes the RBs, sometimes the defense (though not often), sometimes the WRs and TEs, and too often the STs. No one is mostly responsible, nor is anyone innocent. What else I do know is that this past season we were 6-2 when the team rushed for over 100 yds, and 1-7 when we didn't.
Well, I think that as Henning's offense got more and more exposed as the season went on, the heat got hotter and hotter on the coaches. Everyone was remembering Pennington from 2008, and they had this offense tailor made for him, why not put Pennington in? If it won some games, they're getting the heat off them. Of course, Pennington promptly got hurt, putting that plan right in the garbage. IMO, it was a combination of things that got Henne benches for Pennington, but Henne sucking wasn't one of them, or at least not high on the list. If their opinion of Henne was really that low, I don't believe for one second that they wouldn't have used their first pick in the draft to get a QB.
Well said. The shame of it is, is it turns into a thread of why Henne isn't to blame/is to blame every week it's done. No offense to you DJ, but it's almost the same discussion every week. I started the whole thing by arguing that Chad Henne was benched because he wasn't getting the job done in the eyes of the of the coaching staff, and it came right around to you don't like Henne, you like Henne crap.
Personally, from what I watched, it didn't get exposed. It just never developed. It was the same thing in week 1 and week 17. That's not good. Regarding Henne, I think he can be pretty good in this new offensive philosophy if I have my mind wrapped around it right.
Well, I can't seem to see it any other way. There were far too many other factors OUTSIDE of Henne, to simply use the offense last year as an indictment of Henne...unless you just aren't a fan of Henne. If you are simply being objective, you have to say that Henne deserves another year, only his third as a starter, to see if he can get it done in an offense that (hopefully) is somewhat tailored to his strengths.
How does the 5-step drop thing fit in? That quote in another thread (or is it in this one? lol) about how the Dolphins ran 5-step drops so much? Defenses knew what we were doing. I would say that is Henning's offense being exposed...just like it ALWAYS is. How long was he in Carolina? How long foes he stay ANYWHERE? LOL Dude is a joke. I really can't believe he keeps getting jobs in the NFL.
I don't think it's low either, which is why I said what I said above. If they didn't believe Henne was a fit for Henning's offense why would they have drafted him? Why would they have named him the starter with no competition? You're entitled to your opinion, which basically seems like Chad Henne was a placeholder for Pennington until he was healthy. However, I don't see that the case. Not drafting a QB, is more proof that Sparano and Ireland still believe in Henne--which makes it even more believable that he was benched last year due to an indictment of his play.
I don't think the 5 step drops exposed the offense, I think it just showed a lack of creativity and flat out being ******ed IMO. He was in Carolina five years, which is pretty good. Before that, 3 years with the Jets. Not bad I'd say.
What's that tell you when defenses could afford to double up both of those guys? Who would you try to throw it to when you're protecting with 7? A doubled up Bess or a doubled up Marshall? Fasano who's not open? With no one around Brandon to really take advantage of the coverage he drew, I agree that he's a waste; however, with the draft we just had, I think we'll see Marshall have the overall impact he's capable of.
I love how you NEVER seem to address Henning subbing in the wildcat inside the 35 like clockwork..... or--- the constant 1 and 2 yard runs leading to field goals despite Henne having moved the offense down the field. Once we got inside field goal range, Henning and Sparano shut down the offense so often it's not even funny, so I'm not sure how the heck you think a QB is supposed to throw TDs when he's given FEW opportunities inside the 35 combined with not having big play threats capable of scoring outside the 35. Again, if you looked at the film, you'd see this. If you looked at redzone performance statistics, you'd see that Henne wasn't remotely close to the bottom of the league.
There is no "what if game". Not giving your QB opportunities is NOT GIVING YOUR QB OPPORTUNITIES. That's not a what if game. You're the one playing the what if game. You're assuming that "if" Henne were given those extra opportunities afforded to most QBs (Bradford had twice as many redzone pass attempts) that he wouldn't have continued throwing TDs at the same rate. Henne threw as many TD passes per attempt inside the redzone as Drew Brees, only Drew didn't have a moronic OC subbing in useless wildcat plays or calling 1 yard runs b/c he prefers 5 FGs rather than taking shots at TDs. There's no excuse making here; it's pure fact. We rewatched the games; we saw this stuff as plain as day.
Again, what you are describing is that Marshall's impact will be felt when EVERYTHING ELSE is working well around him. He can't do it on his own. No receiver can, as it is the most dependent position on the field. However, we paid two second round picks and $50 million to get very little impact. That's why this position is a dime a dozen position that is as useful as **** on a boar hog when you have poor quarterback play.
So it had nothing to do with an injured and shuffled around Oline, zero ground game, our offensive personnel, or the fact that he was hit roughly more than any QB in the league? Does Pennington have poor pocket awareness? How about Thigpen?
If I what I've read about the new scheme is true, I'd expect to see more of that in 2011 Alen, but you are the expert so to speak on actual schemes so I defer to your opinion. I happen to think if true, we will run more 3 wides and 1 rb sets, Henne will flourish in that system, but he also will take a beating.
Thigpen is a wild animal at quarterback. Dude plays like he has a firecracker in his hand and his *** is on fire.
We kicked 3 FGs in that game. One was at the end of the half after the near miss to Marshall, 2 was on the drive when Henning called a toss sweep on 3rd and 14 (after a holding call), the 3rd was in OT to win the game. You can't put any of that on Henne, not if you're being objective. Like I said, the Pitt game is where we struggled to score, the Cincy game as well. But if you watch the play calls you'll see that we never really tried to attack the end zone, we'd get around the 30 and run the same conservative plays we used to get down field. Unfortunately, defenses play tighter once thier backs are against the wall and our drives would tend to stall once we got near the 30. The WC didnt help much either. I respect your opinion, but it's silly to claim we'd have lost the game if not for the penalty call as some sort of fact. No one knows what would've happened. Besides you're "indictment" of Henne includes one of the best games of his career, against the soon to be Super Bowl champs, on the road. How many other teams went to Lambeau and got a win this season? Zero. They lost at Chicago, at Atlanta, at New England (no Rodgers), and at Detroit (Rodgers hurt). The only QB to go on the road and beat the Pack was Chad Henne, the QB you love to hate on.
You have no right to speak through "the eyes of the coaching staff" because you're not the freakin coaching staff. that's why this has gone on and on. Some of us are only defending Henne because you're chastising him for things that are dead wrong. if a Dolphin fan hadn't watched football all season and listened to you speak about Henne, they'd be completely misinformed. We're having these discussions every week because you never stop trying to throw Henne under the bus. Even when Chad has 2 great games against 2 outstanding teams (Pitt & GB) you complain. As long as you continue "trying" to speak for this organization as if you know exactly why they do what they do, I'll continue to take the opposing side. Just because it's YOUR opinion doe NOT necessarily mean it's shared by Ireland, Sparano, & Co. That's why I called your words pompous..... and I should add arrogant to the list as well.
I somewhat disagree. IMO running it so often tipped our hand and made it easier for defenses to pick up on our tendencies, guess routes, etc. I'm inclined to believe preparing for us also became easier b/c of this.
I agree that WR isn't the end all be all, but I still think it was a good idea to get Marshall. We don't have a Brady or a Rivers who can make due w/ journeymen at WR. Henne needs playmakers around him and Marshall can be a dangerous weapon when used properly. I wouldn't say we over paid for him as much as I'd say we under utilized him. The fades, the shallow crosses, the smoke routes, bubble screens, we didnt do much of that. Hartline, Fasano & Bess were all working to get open in the 5-12 yd area, which is where Marshall should be doing his work. Offensively, the pieces we had last year didnt compliment each other, hopefully we can fix that this season.
Max Pro is a staple of Henning's offense. We led the league in max pro % in 2008, when Pennington was the QB.
