Comparing Henne to this drafts QBs (with videos)

Three years ago Miami drafted a gritty, four-year starting QB from Michigan who had a talented arm capable of slinging the ball around the field. He displayed his toughness while playing with a separated shoulder his senior year (rather than calling in sick).

http://articles.southbendtribune.com/2007-10-23/news/26803865_1_purdue-and-wisconsin-michigan-quarterback-chad-henne-shoulder


This is a kid who seemed to display heart and fire in his play while showing some emotion on the field with leadership skills that emerged his senior year. He was a Freshman All-American and a finalist for numerous awards as a Junior. During his senior season, Chad played through a sprained knee, separated shoulder, and sprained ankle behind an Oline that was injured much of the year. Despite this, he bounced back to earn Senior Bowl MVP honors and was spoken in high regard at the combine (his arm was supposedly the most impressive there IIRC) to the point where he was given a late 1st round grade by many analysts.

For those on the "draft Ryan Mallett" bandwagon, maybe we need a reminder as to what happens when QBs enter the Sparano Bermuda Triangle. If some fans are speaking of wanting Chad replaced b/c they believe "so and so" is the answer and a better QB than Chad yada yada, then IMO we really need to see what we're comparing here..... and it's only fair <to the guy we currently have> to do so.
This isn't intended to be a "Henne-loving" thread, but I know some of you will take your insulting pot shots regardless.

For people who are pessimistic about Chad and believe he has no ability, please take the time to watch his clips below and compare them to this year's draft class. If you want to dog him, at least see what he's like when an organization and conservative coach isn't busy ruining him. I think fans owe him and the team that much. People might be surprised to see the grass may not necessarily be greener. If it doesn't look greener, then we as fans should be showing our support for the the guy we currently have rather than trying to run him out of town. After all, we may need him this year whether people like it or not.

Does the QB in these clips seemslike a guy who's "scared to throw the deep ball" and "unable to throw accurately downfield". Do fans really want to risk a high draft pick on another potentially neutered QB or would you like to try and turn the one around we currently have?


Besides watching Chad (and not meaning to sound condescending), notice how his receivers make plays on passes down field; notice the speed factor involved that allowed him to lay passes up so his man could run under them without worrying about the CB recovering or making a play on the ball (rather than trying to fit it into a tight window 50 yards down field).


**Here are 3 downfield TD passes to Mario Manningham in the 1st half of the ND game.
See how Manningham beats his man and maintains separation (or increases) it after the ball is thrown?

[video=youtube;57i-2OBxNS8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57i-2OBxNS8&NR=1[/video]




**Here are 2 downfield TD passes to Manningham vs Wisconsin: (Speed factor again)

[video=youtube;dV8Hy5V6rAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV8Hy5V6rAs[/video]




**Notice how Henne puts the ball in a spot and lets Manningham finish the play to win the game? (where as Hartline allows the DB to make a play on this throw).

[video=youtube;z22PFO55Tfs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z22PFO55Tfs[/video]




**Notice how Henne can afford to put an arch on this throw and let his speedy, talented, legitimate, downfield receiver beat the corner to the ball. It's a little difficult to lead a 4.5 receiver on this play when the DB likely has an equal or better chance to get there first.

[video=youtube;V6jfks3gR3Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6jfks3gR3Q[/video]





**How about a 43 yard laser downfield to a receiver who doesn't need a flea-flicker? Isn't this the same thing the "retired NFL QB coach said about Mallett?

[video=youtube;oMLrI49Dot0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMLrI49Dot0[/video]




**Notice the following throw by Henne at the 1:10 mark that Brad Childress similarly praises Mallett for,

........except Henne's pass is squeezed in 28 yards down field.

[video=youtube;rMGskrMgmws]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMGskrMgmws[/video]



**Watch another NFL throw at the 2:09 mark (similar to what Brad Childress referenced) that few QBs this draft can make. (or begin at 2:00 to first watch a 45 yard frozen rope TD).

[video=youtube;TgvJHEjhcBI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgvJHEjhcBI[/video]



**Does the following look like a guy afraid to throw it vertically and let his receiver make a play? He does it 4 times to Braylon Edwards in this game. Notice the 21 yard screamer to Edwards at the 2:28 mark that's similar to what the NFL Scout referenced about Mallett: "he can hit a shallow crosser on the upfield shoulder".

[video=youtube;SyUimlCCbXU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyUimlCCbXU&feature=fvsr[/video]


continued next post......

 

**Here's what the end result looks like when Chad has a LEGIT vertical threat who can beat his man, track the ball well, AND FINISH THE PLAY 50 yards downfield. The 1st is at 0:27..... and the 2nd is at 2:10. Who's the #7 guy running to congratulate him?

[video=youtube;iAt5A_mU87w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAt5A_mU87w[/video]



**Now here's the opposite <of the play above> from a receiver who displays little ability to track and effectively attack the ball downfield while instead allowing the DB to make the play. (Back to back plays starting at the 0:37 mark.)

[video=youtube;qJ-lxjhVNnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ-lxjhVNnc[/video]

Not every throw by a QB will be perfect; otherwise Peyton Manning wouldn't have missed 3,783 passes in his career. That's where the receiver, the guy who's responsible for finishing the throw, comes into play. It's his job to make things easier for the QB, not harder. It's his job to help reduce the margin of error as much as possible, not exacerbate it. It's bad enough if you under throw a 40 yard pass; it's even worse if your WR can't help correct it. After all, refs don't award extra points for a higher degree of difficulty when a QB has to fit the ball into a tighter space.




**Another 50 yarder down field to a guy who can finish a play:

[video=youtube;foYOOKEXKic]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foYOOKEXKic[/video]



**How about the following 2 bombs to Ted Ginn? Anyone remember these? See how Chad can afford to lay it out there 60 & 53 yards b/c the speed factor allows Ginn to separate from coverage over the last 15 yards of the throw and run under it? Who's that guy butt-bumpin Ginn at the end? No pun intended.

[video=youtube;ZJmNn5aHN0U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJmNn5aHN0U[/video]
[video=youtube;MyPtJF-IgPc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyPtJF-IgPc[/video]



**And in case we need a reminder what Henne's capable of when the ground game is working, his knee is healthy, the line is providing better protection, and he's not throwing to a handful of practice squad guys, here's a glimpse back to what excited us in 2009. Notice the difference in play-action when our ground game is effective? Who's the 2nd guy running to congratulate Hartline at the 0:19 mark? See how Ricky and Ronnie effectively contribute to the passing game when they still had respectable speed? The NFL throw under pressure to Camarillo at 1:27 is absolutely beautiful.

[video=youtube;-nEYAnOnAj8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nEYAnOnAj8&feature=fvwrel[/video]



**For those of you who haven't seen Chad's Michigan touchdown highlight reel and would like to compare it to this year's draft class, here you go. Notice at the 8:40 mark Chad can throw it 40 yards to the pylon and lead his receiver because Manningham has the ability to separate from his defender downfield, track the ball, and finish the play.

[video=youtube;bR2b2BI6sxg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR2b2BI6sxg[/video]



**Lastly, we have Ryan Mallett. Ryan had talented receivers making plays for him just as Henne did a Michigan. I honestly don't see Mallett making throws that Henne didn't...... and I don't see Ryan being as successful passing downfield when his vertical guys are now a double-covered Marshall & Hartline instead of Greg Childs, Cobi Hamilton, and Joe Adams..... and I don't foresee it happening under the conservative, Sparanoism regime where testicles are separated from body upon signing (it's actually line 58 of the contract..... in fine print).

[video=youtube;Vr-U_2DSy1A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr-U_2DSy1A[/video]

 

Ricky Stanzi:

[video=youtube;NiUKYaHGlzE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiUKYaHGlzE[/video]

 

Christian Ponder (thanks to our very own Conuficus)

Con notes that Ponder was playing injured. Keep in mind that Henne was playing injured during his senior season, too (separated shoulder and sprained anke & knee).

[video=youtube;obbFKCZYcms]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obbFKCZYcms[/video]

 

I wish. I'd probably get seats to a few games rather than watching from home.
...... plus team signed helmets and jerseys. lol.

A lot of fans say that any QB this draft is better than Chad. When I try to compare apples to apples with Henne at Michigan to this year's draft class, and I just don't see it. Peoples' comments make it seem like the transition from college QB to pro is easy and that any Tom Dick and Harry Dick can succeed. IMO most of this crop looks like backups, average at best starters, or temporary solutions until the permanent solution is found. I don't see how that translates to a franchise QB you want to build a team around, and I don't see how that translates to a noticeable improvement to what we have.

If Luck were in this draft, I'd be like: "now there's an upgrade". Sanchez was a hotter commodity with less bust potential coming out (no, not the closet) than any of these prospects, and he's yet to separate himself from Chad IMO, so I don't see the rationality behind thinking a group of mostly inferior and less NFL ready players will put Chad on the bench.

 

as to the video:

I had to watch it a couple times.

 

that's how I feel, too. It doesnt mean that I think Chad is a future HOF QB who doesn't need competition; however, I also know an incomplete class of QBs when I see one...... and I don't want to force the pick just for the sake of taking a QB.

I want to know where this offense is headed, who's going to be running/coaching it, and who the HC of the next 15 years will be before I commit a high draft pick to a specific type of QB who may not be a fit for every system.

If we're talking Andy Luck, then that's a different story IMO b/c with that guy, from the moment you draft him, you pretty much know he's the guy you're building a team around (including future coaches should Sparano & Daboll not work out). I can't say the same thing about Ponder, Mallett, Locker, Kaepernick, Opie, or Stanzi.

 

wow..... 19 TDs. I can definitely see your point here. Penny threw for 3653 because we played the easiest group of defenses in 2008 that any team has faced the past 10 years.

Riiiight......Henne neutered Henne. Did you not see David Lee chewing out Thigpen for throwing a jump ball to Marshall? Yeppers, Henne's the one holding the shears.

You're so right. Every pass from every QB is always on the money, so it's ridiculous to think that the guy on the other end of the throw has an impact on the play. That's why every receiver in the NFL has exactly the same skill set, and guys like Hakeem Nicks & Mario Manningham simply get lucky when it comes to making big plays. <sarcasm>

Question for you: If you throw 20 jump balls downfield in single coverage (Joe Haden) to Hakeem Nicks and Brian Hartline, which receiver is winning more of those battles? If you're running any type of vertical where there's 55 yards of air on the ball, who's tracking it easier and providing a better chance of completing it out of 20 attempts, Hartline or Jacoby Ford? Which receiver allows you to lead him more?.... And is it a benefit to the QB if he CAN lead the receiver more?


I'm just gonna copy this post from your other thread since I'm not sure if you read it.

Kitna and his 76 previous career QB rating looked pretty impressive in a Dallas offense that scored 27.8 points per game during Kitna's 10 games (good for 2nd in the NFL) while Kitna finished with an 89 rating, his highest yards per attempt, and his most TDs & yards per game by far. They did this with the 16th ranked rushing offense. Just making an observation.

Also, great QBs typically need great receivers for their greatness to show through. Go back through history and see how many great QBs had outstanding WRs to work with. The number is far greater than the ones who did not.

Just for fun:

Marino- Duper (3x Pro Bowl), Clayton (5x PB), Moore (1x PB).

Montana- Won 4 SBs with Rice (HOF), Dwight Clark (2x All Pro), & John Taylor (2x All Pro).

Joe Namath- won a SB with Don Maynard (HOF) & George Sauer (4x All Star) (combined for 2400 yards, 20 avg, and 14 TDs during 69 SB season)

Daryle Lamonica- Fred Biletnikoff (HOF)

YA Tittle- Del Hoffner (60's All-Decade Team), played together in straight 3 championships. Best 3 years of Tittle's career.

Kenny Stabler- Biletnikoff (HOF) & Cliff Branch (HOF nominee). Won SB 77 together. (best years of Stabler's career).

Kurt Warner- Won 2 SBs with Bruce (4x PB) & Holt (7x PB); almost another with Fitzgerald (5x PB), and Boldin (3x PB).

George Blanda- won 2 straight AFL Championships with Charley Hennigan (AFL HOF) & Brill Groman (1x All Star) (combined for 5100 yards, 47 TDs, and 20 avg in 2 years) Blanda's best years.

Warren Moon- didn't do anything for 4 years until he had Earnest Givens (2x PB), Drew Hill (2x PB), & Haywood Jeffires (3x PB).

Steve Young: 1 SB with Rice, Taylor, & Terrell Owens (future HOF)

Roger Staubach: Bob Hayes (HOF), Drew Pearson (70's All Decade Team), Tony Hill (3x PB) (2 SBs)

Bob Griese: 2 SBs with Paul Warfield (HOF)

Troy Aikman: 3 SBs with Michael Irvin (HOF)

Terry Bradshaw: 4 SBs with Swann (HOF) & Stallworth (HOF)

Norm Van Brocklin: Crazy Legs Hirsch (HOF), Tom Fears (HOF), Tommy McDonald (HOF), Pistol Pete Retzlaff (5x PB) (2 SBs)

Sonny Jurgensen: Bobby Mitchell (HOF), Charley Taylor (HOF), Tommy McDonald (HOF), Pete Retzlaff (5x PB).

Brett Favre: Sterling Sharpe (5x All Pro), Antonio Freeman (Packer HOF), Donald Driver (3x PB), Greg Jennings (1x PB), Sidney Rice (1x PB).

John Elway: Shannon Sharpe (HOF; deserves to be included), Rod Smith (3x PB), Ed McCaffrey (1x PB), Vance Johnson.

Peyton Manning: Marvin Harrison (8x PB, 2000 All Decade Team), Reggie Wayne (5x PB).

Tom Brady: Troy Brown (1x All Pro), Wes Welker (3x All Pro), Randy Moss (7x PB).

Bart Starr: Carrol Dale (HOF), Max McGee (Packer HOF), Boyd Dowler (60's All Decade Team).

Johhny Unitas: Raymond Berry (HOF), Lenny Moore (HOF), John Mackey (HOF TE), Jimmy Orr (2x PB), Roy Jefferson (3x PB).

Otto Graham: Dante Lavelli (HOF), Mac Speedie (40's All Decade Team).

Dan Fouts: Charlie Joiner (HOF), Kellen Winslow (HOF TE), John Jefferson (4x PB), Wes Chandler (4x PB).

Joe Theismann: Art Monk (HOF), Charlie Brown (2x PB).

Jim Kelly: James Lofton (HOF), Andre Reed (7x PB).

Boomer Esiason: Cris Collinsworth (3x PB), Eddie Brown (1x PB), Tim McGee.

-Donovan McNabb: Best season was his only full season with Terrell Owens--- 2004 Offensive POY; 32 TDs; 104 QB rating (20pts higher than career avg).
-Jeff Garcia: his 63 TDs in 2000 & 2001 (with Terrell Owens) were the most by any QB in NFL during that time. His best TD production w/o TO was 13.

Fran Tarkenton- is one of the few not on the list, although he had 3 great years with the Giants 67-69: 2x Pro Bowler, Homer Jones (3300 yards, 28 TDs, 23 avg in 3 years)


If the QB made the surrounding cast rather than the surrounding cast allowing the QB to reach his potential, then teams like Indy would've drafted defensive players in the first round rather than the countless offensive weapons for Peyton.

 

How many teams are uncertain if their current coach will be with them next year? If you have a good coach, you don't worry about who the next one is.

I understand that and agree with that, but that's making the assumption we get a good coach. How long has that been? lol.

I give Mallett a hard time, but I like him as a prospect. I don't think he's franchise material b/c IMO he won't have the season long consistency to be one. If we were Arizona, Cincy, or Minnesota, I'd be all for him right now. However, in my eyes I see too much similarity between he and Henne as far as NFL success go, which is why I'd prefer to bring in a vet for competition and go all in next year if necessary b/c I dont think any rookie will give us a better shot at winning in 2011 than a seasoned pro....... and call me a homer, but I believe we have a chance to compete (even with Henne still developing at QB). If the Jets can do it, then so can we now that we're maturing as a team.

 

lmao. touche'. If I were Google, I'd know exactly whose boobs those are in my avatar.

I was interested about the topic a few days ago and decided to look it up for my own curiosity. I wanted to get a feel for what outstanding QBs over history had to work with b/c I've noticed over the years that great QBs (when they're playing at their best) seemed to have a great supporting cast around them.

 

No, he wasnt..... not when he faced defenses that were worth a crap. Need I remind you his performances vs good defenses in 08 and his 3 games to begin 09? They were horrendous. So, yes, it is "ok".

Let's see: Penny's last 4 starts with us (which were verse good teams)--- 0-4. 0 TDs, 6 INTs, and a QB rating that should be in the 60s. I don't give him credit for 2 late TDs when the games were already over and defenses were in prevent. How about his 10 of 20 for 112 yards (5.6 avg) in his embarrassing loss to Zona? How many wins did he have against playoff teams with winning records?

what? It wasn't even Sparano's team. Don't tell me a Jerry Jones' football team (or the head coach of one) is gonna let some assistant coach run the show the way he wants.

On the flip side to your statement, I could see how Romo could have a great season like that when he's throwing to the best receiver in the game at that time who IS a legit deep threat despite having Sparano as the Offensive Line coach.

-Donovan McNabb: Best season was his only full season with Terrell Owens--- 2004 Offensive POY; 32 TDs; 104 QB rating (20pts higher than career avg).
-Jeff Garcia: his 63 TDs in 2000 & 2001 (with Terrell Owens) were the most by any QB in NFL during that time. His best TD production w/o TO was 13.

That Terry Glenn guy wasn't a horrible vertical threat either. Jason Witten doesn't impact that offense....... and neither did a ground game that ran for 121 YPG with 21 TDs (3rd in the league). TO & Glenn is where half your lofty 8.6 avg came from. I'm glad you like seeing these high passing averages per attempt but don't feel the need to help your QB get there. That makes little sense from my perspective.

Ask the Pittsburgh Steelers how it felt to almost see their SuperBowl hopes slip by because of ONE receiver....... that is, until ANOTHER receiver made an outstanding play to win the game for them.

Larry would probably say that it hurt their offense when Boldin was shipped off because Boldin <a WR> was an impact player whose absence allowed defenses to give Fitz excessive coverage which in turn impaired Derek's ability to get him the ball.

Ask Montana how many SBs he would've won w/o Rice.

it's plain silly to think that ANY player of ANY position will turn a team-oriented sport into a winning franchise all by himself.
I've got 2 words for you: Archie Manning.

What was Archie's winning..... I mean losing percentage? There's no way a great QB could have a lower percentage than a great WR could he?

Nope, I guess he could. 26.3%. Ouch. That's 11% lower than Calvin, Larry, and Andre....... and that's with more games played, too. Hmmm, did you know..... that a great QB like Archie is the losingest QB in the history of the NFL (with at least 100 starts)?

I guess QBs don't matter either huh? lol.

 

No, you put it this way: you can't take Tom Brady b/c Tom Brady's dont grow on trees. But you know what does pop up every draft? Impact WRs.

So while you and 31 other teams are looking for your Tom Brady (including the one who has Brady right now)..... while your life is progressing from a recliner inside to one day a front porch rocker with a side table to toss your dentures on when you're about to take a nap so they don't fall onto the deck and attract ants to the prune bits stuck in them, I'll be bolstering my offense with impact players WHILE I'm searching for the next Brady (or Manning. I'd rather have Manning).

AND, in the meantime, I'll have my stud WRs turning a 76 career-rated QB into an 89 rated, 27.8 points per game scoring machine. See Kitna in Dallas.

 

eloquently put "subtraction of some variables". lol. Do you mean the idiot?

Thanks by the way Deej. That's all I'm really trying to do, too---- remember who this kid was before Henning and Sparano ran him into the ground (if that truly is the case, which it seems to me based on everything that's come out of Sparano's and Henning's mouth last season regarding offensive philosophy and what they want out of their QB play).

If we did bury him and are wondering if he can rebound in a system that might be better set up for his success, then I like the odds right now considering his enthusiasm for stepping up to learn the new offense while organizing practices etc. He could've folded under the pressure and scrutiny, but he didn't, and I like that.

 

Thanks for the post gafin.

Actually, Childs is one of the best receivers in college football. If he came out this year, he's probably a 1st round pick IMO.... and Adams & Hamilton are no slouches. It's arguable that these 4 combine for the best pass catching quartet in the country, especially when you have a potential 1st round running back opening up the play action.

Henne only had Braylon his freshman year. His senior year it was Manningham & Arrington...... which is inferior to Mallett's crew (whom I didn't even mention Jarius Wright). Mike Hart was good, but he takes a back seat to Knile Davis.

I'm not sure if you read the entire opening post because it mentioned Henne playing through a separated shoulder, sprained knee, and sprained ankle his senior year. However, his mobility in the pocket at Michigan seemed better than Mallett's.