This should rile up a few o fyou Brady fans!

The reasoning the 2007 Patriots gave for consistently running up the score was that the game was never out of hand. There is always the chance that a team could pull off a miracle comeback (Or in the Jets case, throw a couple of 21 point TDs). However, that logic falls flat on its face when you see Brady get pulled in a losing effort as happened against the Browns this year. Better yet, think back to 2009 when the Patriots went to New Orleans and got pounded on. With three minutes left in the game, down by 18, Brady is on the bench and his backup is playing. How can anyone make the claim that a 42 point deficit isn't safe, but an 18 point deficit is too much to overcome?

Most career TD passes with a 17+ point lead
1T. Tom Brady - 33
1T. Brett Favre - 32
3. Peyton Manning - 30
4. Steve Young - 28
Most career TD passes with a 28+ point lead
1. Tom Brady - 10
2. Sid Luckman - 8
3. Norm Van Brocklin - 8
4T. Craig Morton - 6
4T. Len Dawson - 6
Most career TD passes in the 4th quarter with a 28+ point lead
1. Jacky Lee - 5
2T. Tom Brady - 4
2T. Pete Beathard - 4
2T. Craig Morton - 4


http://youcantplayhere.blogspot.com/2010/12/patriots-tom-brady-sportsmanship-and.html

 

From the author of this article...

 

I think you're missing the point and Henne has nothing to do with why I posted this.

Also, I could care less if a team runs up the score. Those things have a way of working themselves out. See Giants-Pats Super Bowl and Jets-Pats playoffs.

The reason I posted this was because some here like to call Brady the GOAT or one of the GOAT QB's to ever play the game. This post shows as to why some of his stats are what they are.

 

Lot's of people during the 1990's called Aikman the or one of the GOAT QB's. They look pretty stupid now that all the hype has died down. Brady's hype will (and already is) dying down.

 

Super Bowl wins are team stats. If someone was to say that the Patriots weren't the best team of the 2000's you could pull up that they went to 40% of the Super Bowls and won 30% of those same Super Bowls.

Here, i'll play your game.

In the last two years, Tom Brady is 0-2 in the Playoffs. Mark Sanchez is 3-1 during that same period. Thus Mark Sanchez is a better QB than Tom Brady right now.

Tom Brady's "stats" do not make him elite. He's played 9 seasons and has 2 seasons with elite stats. The rest were pretty average. Hell, Matt Cassell's season with the Pat's is about the same average season as Brady's. If you average out all 9 playing seasons for Brady and compare it to the matt Cassell season, they are nearly identical.

 

He put up about the same season. 90 QBR to a 93 QBR.

However, with the Patriots he hadn't started a game since high school, came right in and put up Brady-esque numbers. With KC he's been there for 2 full years now. With Weis. And a rushing game. And he still won 1 less game in KC this season.

No, Cassell isn't a horrible QB, but he will be the next Derek Anderson. Mark my words...

 

No sour grapes. He's played on some great teams. Great TEAMS = Super Bowls.

Ask Trent Dilfer or Hostetler or Rypien or Johnson or any of the other many average to crappy QB's who also have Super Bowl rings.

 

The Miami Dolphins, while Marino played, was 8-10 in the playoffs.

However, Marino could put up numbers like 24 of 38 (64%) 270yds, 3 TD's with 0 INT's (110 QBR) and still lose.

Brady can put up 27 of 51 (52%) 280yds, 2 TD's with 3 INT's (57 QBR) and still win.

The 2000-2009 Patriots > 1984-1999 Dolphins

Dan Marino > Tom Brady

 

Your attempt to argue using a big, giant, ugly strawman won't work with me. I'm too smart. You're attempt to some how use Dan Marino to claim Brady is great won't work. At least not on me.

There are numerous reasons Marino didn't win a Super Bowl. I don't think I've listed one reason here, on this entire forum. So you trying to claim I have is funny.

I will breifly touch on this though. For you.

Out of Marino's entire career the Dolphins had a top five defense 3 times.

His first top 5 was his rookie season. This #1 ranked defense made it to the playoffs where it then proceeded to give up 160 yards rushing. Also, the Dolphins fumbled the ball 3 times (2 by running backs and 1 on a KO return) which led to 13 Seattle points. To be fair, Marino threw an INT in the 4th quarter that led to 7 points for Seattle. It was Marino's first playoff game. It was 50 degrees with 20 mph winds. Marino completed 60% of his passes for 195yds, 2 TD's and 2 INT's.

The second time was in 1990 when the Dolphins had the 4th ranked defense. They faced the Bills in the playoffs. In this game Marino accounted for 4 TD's when threw 3 and rushed for 1. He threw for 323 yards and their offense scored 34 points. You'd think that the 4th best defense in the NFL could win with 34 points, huh? Wrong. They gave up 44 points.

The third time wss in 1998. Their defense was ranked #1, but Marino was a shell of his former self. He was 37 years old and was suffering from shoulder/arm nerve injuries. They made the playoffs. They faced the Bills first and beat them 24-17. Their next game was against the future Super Bowl champs, Denver. The Dolphins defense then proceeded to give up 250 yards rushing and 38 points. The Dolphins rushed for 14 yards.


The rest of Marino's career he played with defense's that averaged 20th in the league. During his prime, 1984-1993 (the year he tore his achilles) the Dolphins defense averaged 18th in the league.

Now, let's look at what Brady has had in his first 9 years of playing.

2001-5th (Defense held the "Greatest Show on Turf" to 14 points)
2002-17th (Failed to even make the playoffs)
2003-1st
2004-2nd
2005-17th
2006-2nd
2007-4th
2009-5th
2010-8th

The Patriot's defense while Brady has played has averaged 6th in the league. (Not to mention the cheating)

 

Did you happen to look at those defenses you listed in the playoffs? How'd they do? Did any of them give up 250yds rushing? How about 44 points? I see that the worst defense you listed was 13th. Well, did you miss the part where I wrote that the Dolphin's defenses ranked an average of 20th during Marino's career? You must have missed that part.

But I digress. Your attempt to change the subject is not going to work with me. Tom Brady is not an all-time great QB. His personal stats, even though padded, do not show him to be. Out of his 9 seasons playing he has had 2 great seasons. Since he's been there the Patriots haven't had a defense ranked worse than 8th but twice (22% o fthe time). The Dolphins, while Marino was there, had defenses ranked worse than 8th in 12 out of his 17 seasons (71% of the time).You can use Super Bowl wins if you wish, but I'd rather not think that Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were better QB's than Marino.

I love your last sentence, "So like I said once before in another thread, I will defer to that old "teaching a pig to sing" adage, and let you continue to pound your chest and preach to all how awful Brady truly is." Would you care to point to the place where I wrote that Brady is "awful"? Many times I've pointed out that Brady is a HoF QB. He's just not one of the All-Time Great QB's.

 

Yep, New Englands rushing, 112 yards to 45 yards, and the Eagles 4 TO's pretty much sealed the deal for the Patriots. That and AV's leg.

 

Montana benefitted greatly from the teams around him. There is no denying that.

 

Since you brought it up I'll use Montana as an example here. You can look at Brady's stats and Montana's stats and see that they don't differ too much. And that fact is the reason why Montana was better. If you consider that Montana came into the league in 1979 and was still able to put up numbers akin to any QB in the 2000's that alone shows you how great he was. If you think the league hasn't changed all that much since 1980 consider the fact that in 1982 Montana led the league in TD's with 17...that's right 17 TD's. Look at their total TD's during their first 9 seasons. I think they are something like 220 to 260 in Brady's favor. Not a huge difference if you consider the amount of TD's QB's throw today compared to 25-30 years ago.

In short, when you compare QB's you must consider their era. Then you have to look at what those QB's did compared to the other QB's in that same era. I've said that Brady is a HoF QB. He's just not one of the All-Time Great QB's. Both Brady and Montana played on some of the greatest teams ever assembled in NFL history. That's why between them they have 7 Super Bowl rings and 8 Super Bowl appearances. These Super Bowls are what people talk about first and foremost when mentioning Brady's "greatness". That's not true when people talk about Montana, Marino, Unitas...to name just a few of the All-Time Greats. Montana, even without a Super Bowl, would still be thought of as great. Like Marino. Brady, without a Super Bowl, would be considered above average except for his one 50 TD season.

Speaking of that record...I do think it was awesome, so don't get me wrong, but it just goes to show further that Brady pads his stats. Marino, in 1984, threw 48 TD passes. In that 1984 season he was pulled at the end of a few of those games. The Dolphins went 14-2 during the regular season. There were 4 games were the Dolphins beat their opponents by 21+ points. Now, in Brady's 2007 season, he played every minute of every game and they beat 10 teams by 21+ points. So, after all the rule changes since 1984 that favor the QB's Brady still only beat that record by 2 TD's. And that was only because he was still throwing the ball, up by 21+ points late in the 4th quarter. Hell, Manning threw 49 TD's and only played in the equivalent of 14 games because he was pulled when the Colts were blowing out their opponents.

 

I also think Montana was an all-time great. Montana played his first 5 seasons without Rice and his first 3 without Craig. He still had great numbers. I have no bias towards Brady. I admit the things that he's good at- works hard, is smart, and accurate with short, precise throwing. What he's not good at is playing well while he's getting pressured and deep passing. Just to name a few things he's good or bad at. You never seen Brady do anything except sit back in the pocket, with a lot of time to throw, and throw a short pass to his receiver and then watch them get YAC. Didn't you watch his last game against the Jets? He looked scared and frightened. Montana NEVER did that. The all-time greats never did that.

I've said many times that I would have loved to have had Brady on the Dolphins. He's a hell of a lot better than any QB we've had since Marino. I think Brady is a better QB than Griese was. I think Brady is a HoF QB. What I don't fall for is all the media hype about how he's maybe the best ever.

I do not think Marino is the best QB to ever play, although he is the best pure passer and an all-time great. There is an argument to be made that he's top 3-5 all time.

 

Without Moss, what did Brady accomplish? Any individual records? Any great season stats?

I find people who claim that Super Bowl wins are signs of individual greatness ignorant. I find people who fall for the media hype ignornat.

 

Once again, Super Bowl wins are TEAM accomplishments. Moss was good fro Brady to pad his stats. Brady throwing jump balls up to Moss, late in the 4th quarter and up by 30 points is good for any QB's stats.

Moss quit this year. Brady has had two "elite" seasons out of the 9 he has played. His 2007 season, and this past season.

Matt Cassell, in his first year starting since high school came in and threw 21 TD's and 3600 yards. The Patriots system allows nearly any QB to flourish.

What makes Brady great is his O-Lines ability, year in and year out, to give him an enormous amount of time to get the ball to his (normally) wide open receiver. You say that Brayd has "weapons" on his offense? I thought Brady was the offense and that offens has very little talent? To even suggest that the Patriot's have no talent on thier offense is just crazy. Add to it that their coach is brilliant (and is probably still cheating)

Montana, in his first 5 seasons, had no HoF WR's and yet he still managed to put up great numbers.

During the second half of the season the Pats defense was ranked 5th. They went from something like 20th to 8th during the entire season. There is no doubt that Brady played great this year. Their entire offense played great. However, when they reached the playoffs, and Brady didn't have his 30 second window to throw the ball, he wilted.

 

If you could actually comprehend the stats you would see that in Montana's first three years STARTING he averaged- 3400 yds, 18 TD's, 11 INTs (and that's including the 9 game strike season) In Brady's first 3 years he averaged 3400 yds, 23 TD's, 13 INT's. And remember Montana's first 3 seasons STARTING 1980-81-82.