Area of hope for next year's offense (and Henne)

That doesn't mean it has to be dumbed down. Actually its the opposite. We have too much of a dumbed down, predictable offense. And Henne is absolutely a drop back passer. You put him in NE's offense (or Detroit's, SD's, Denver's, etc) and he's easily more effective. Henne's skill set isn't all that limiting. He may never be that top 5 type that can work in any system, but he would be a damn site better in 75% of the offenses in the league.

 

You blame Henne for that? Wow dude you really are out to get this guy. Bro that one is totally on the OC who is a stubborn old mule and refuses to move Marshall around at all. There was one game where we saw Bess get a deep route with no success. Also Curtis got a deep route with no success. I haven't once seen Marshall lined up in the slot with a straight deep route attacking the middle of the field all season and you are putting that on the QB. Things are worse than I thought. Reminds me of the original Frankenstein film where the Doctor built the Monster who doesn't quite understand his surroundings but yet the people have to blame someone so they lynch the Monster without the knowledge of facts.

 

You totally missed what the point was Killahp, two similar players both more possession guys than real explosive Wr's is not doing Henne any favors.

Not

Henne has two good Wr's to throw to and is not using them.

I suspect something is cooking with the Wr corps Kilahp, do not be surprised if there is a shake up this offseason.

 

I really don't take issue at all with the ball he through to Marshall vs. the Jets this year. I want more of that. Ya, would I like to see the WR hit in stride? Ya, but I think it's unfair to think a QB can hit that pass in beautiful stride every time. I just want him to allow those guys the opportunity to make that play. He did with both of those plays to Marshall and Hartline. I know if we could have make those plays with more consistency it would change the way defenses play us drastically. The plays were there to be made this year and they weren't.

 

Sorry I'm on Nyquil today......

He did use Marshall on Sunday.10 catches just 14 yards being the longest. Brandon doesn't get separation after the catch and before you say he is being double covered he had more YAC last year in Denver with the same situation. I also couldn't help but notice Henne had success in the middle of the field against zone coverage to both TE's Fasano and Shuler. There was also a nice play to get a first down to Fasano at the sideline against zone coverage. Henne placed the ball over the LB and in front of the safety. There are moments with him when he excels if the right call is made as far as a shakeup at wR I agree and todd hammers it home daily. We have to get a deep threat speedster of some sort but if we don't change the philosophy it will be status quo. I'm more than sure Henne will be the qB so get him some tools and a OC that has a clue and maybe we can salvage the damage this group has done to this kid's head. If not go ahead and make a change at QB and watch things go backwards.

 

I would like to see current Henne in 08 Dolphins or '10 Patriots. I think an offense with a lot of different weapons, two good TE's (Fasano/Martin;Hernandez/Gronkowski), a guy who can get deep (Ginn/Hartline;Tate), and a solid run game with receiving RB's would be best for him. Best of all a new OC.

 

Hmm, any chance you can find 3 wr's and from the shotgun?

That to me was where Henne played at his best, 3 wr's/shotgun/ no huddle

 

That is the biggest bunch of bs I have heard here in a while. Brandon Marshall has to go up and fight for that ball at all cost. He lacked effort on a ball that was out right where it had to be. A star WR goes up and makes that play. You are giving Marshall a pass and putting it on the QB. I swear player fans make me sick. An amazing leap? How about just going after it and coming down with it. Marshall is a fraud. He is over paid and over rated and gets way too much credit for not doing his job. Bess is a better possession WR IMO. That is all Marshall can do is catch the ball and get tackled. When he doesn't drop the football. I'm not impressed and could care less if he stays. He has done nothing but take up space and waste oxygen IMO.

 

That is why Marlon Moore was inserted and Curtis waived, more upside, faster, keep an eye on him this Sunday.

 

You're right about that as well - we've seen plenty of missed opportunities, and the splits don't show passes not taken.

 

But you did have that. He had Ginn and Hartline last year. He had a deep threat. He was blessed with a Top 3 Rushing Offense. He was in the same offense they ran in 2008 (last year). Yet, he still put up mediocre numbers. He still struggled to complete balls down the field, not nearly as bad as this year however. He still struggled with costly INTs in situations. I will say that there wasn't as much of a struggle to score points. A running game vastly improved that, as it would have this year. However, when he is asked to lead us to victory he comes up short more often than not.

It's true that a better running game, makes Henne better and this offense better. For me, though it still masks the issues I have with Henne.

 

ESPN also has splits as well, and pro-football reference does too.

 

I think he was talking about the completion to Marshall, KP. I know I was. That was a good throw by Henne and a great play by Marshall. That's what we brought Marshall in for, to make those plays--which he did.

I disagree about your view on Marshall, however. I think he's a stud.

 

He was talking about the deep play against the Jets where the ball was put on the money and Marshall didn't go up and fight for the ball. Incomplete pass. I believe it was 3:25 left in the third quarter Go back and take a look. The ball was spot on and BM is paid to make those plays. I'm underwhelmed by this guy. He is far from a stud.

 

I was, and the more I look at it, the happier I am that the throw was made. Brandon Marshall is 6'4 and has a 37-inch vert, and he is here to make those plays, and he did. That's good for me.

 

This play, right here:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010092614/2010/REG3/jets@dolphins/analyze/box-score#tab:watch

EDIT

Looks like the NFL doesn't want me to link directly to their videos Rather than fight them right now, it's the 40 yard play. The 11-yard TD is pretty sweet too.

 

Takes 1-2 throws a game. David Garrard does the same, and his rating is much higher on throws of 20+ yards. Matt Cassell has done the same, and also with a far superior rating at 20+ yards. I wouldn't say those guys are luminaries of the deep ball. I'm just asking that a guy that can throw the ball like Henne can work on his placement to make some of those long passes completions, and others scores.

 

By the way, that was against Antonio Cromartie who was clocked between 4.3-4.4 and Eric Smith who was clocked between 4.55 and 4.65. That looked like plenty of separation to me.

 

No I didn't have that. He didn't have his two TE's. He also was in his first year starting. Something about current Henne skipped pass you.

EDIT: Also, Dan Henning.

 

It's cool.... That's on me. I thought you were referring to the 2nd Jets game late in the 3rd QTR when Marshall didn't go up and fight for the ball and Fields bailed us out.

That 40 yarder was Marshall longest on the season I believe. I have issues with the guy. YAC average is 2.5 and only scores 3 TD's. I know the catches are there and the yardage is good but he is not a play maker at all.

 

I don't know if you're aware of this, but Dan Henning was the coordinator for that 2008 offense. I was waiting for the first year excuse, which is a valid one. I agree. But, it can only be used as an excuse so long as there has been progression into this year. While I believe he's better in a few areas, he's gotten worse in others and stayed the same in others.

Yes, he didn't have David Martin, but he has Brandon Marshall this year. Say what you want about Marshall's production this year being down and him overrated, but he makes the defense account for him at all times by double coverage, defensive gameplans, etc. that David Martin NEVER received.

 

I don't know if I'm down with Mike Sims-Walker. He's no better than Hartline or Marshall in terms of being the deep go-to guy (its a combination of Mike Thomas and Lewis for the Jags). Henne has had Brian Hartline now for two years. The difference between say Mike Thomas and Brian Hartline is two or three plays made as opposed to missed. If you're not going to take many shots down the field, you have to hit the ones you are taking, and that's where Henne has struggled, even since college.

Bowe though is having a monster year all over the field, and between him and Cassell they're probably the best QB/WR tandem right now.

 

You just described what the Pats do 90% of the time. The biggest difference is that Wleker and Woodhead get YAC and the Pats have a running game.

 

Actually, that isn't the case Todd re: Mike Sims-Walker & Dwayne Bowe.

Here are there 40 times, which use as big criteria for a vertical threat per nfldraftscout.com:

Mike Sims-Walker
Avg: 4.35
Low: 4.32
High: 4.44

Dwayne Bowe
Avg: 4.51
Low: 4.49
High: 4.61

Brandon Marshall
Avg: 4.52 (only had average on nfldraftscout.com)

Brian Hartline
Avg: 4.52
Low: 4.44
High: 4.63

So, you can see by those numbers Mike Sims-Walker should be a much more clear vertical threat than any of our guys, but it isn't the case. Per NFL.com player stats, he only has 2 catches in his entire 3 year career of 40+ yards, with none of those this year. He isn't a vertical threat by any stretch of the imagination. In one less game, Hartline has one catch of 40+ yards (which was really more him doing the YAC) and one less 20+ yd catch and a better YPC. So, the 40 time doesn't hold water and the stats would indicate Hartline is much more of a big play guy than Mike Sims-Walker is. I didn't even get into Hartline's impressive YPC numbers from his rookie year.

The best vertical threat of those 4 guys? It's actually Brandon Marshall and all his numbers indicate that, both 40+ yd catches, 20+ yd catches. Dwayne Bowe has posted an outstanding 16.3 YPC this year that bests Brandon Marshall's best output of 15.5 in 2006, but before this year Dwayne Bowe really wasn't viewed as downfield guy, whereas Brandon Marshall has posted 3+ 40 yd seasons in 08 and 09. By no stretch of the imagination do I believe Marshall is a vertical guy, but he is a vertical threat and is an all-around good WR as he is good at all (vertical, over the middle, short and YAC--other than this year).

Again, this not only argues that MSW is a better vertical threat, but that also 40 times really don't hold much water when it comes to how much a vertical threat a guy is. Brian Hartline has done a good job stretching the field and picking up chunk yardage. I think he could have been even better say if a few of those balls he's open deep are completed.

Edit: It shouldn't be a surprise that Dwayne Bowe's numbers have been so great due to Matt Cassell's excellent play this year--really since the 1st quarter of the year where he and Bowe still struggled. The presence of that strong running game allowed the passing game to become more formidable I believe, which is a point you've been alluding to Todd and that I agree with.

 

To add to this, I was listening to ESPN radio and Tim Hasselbeck was asked about Vick missing some protection calls. Tim stated that most QBs aren't responsible for that, that guys like Manning and Brees are exceptions. I did not know this.

 

That really isn't true.

 

I don't know the numbers now but it was true through the first half of the season on third down. What isn't true is those repeated allegations that Henne stares down his receivers anymore than the average QB. Even Sparano came out and said that.

 

Contrary to popular belief, Marshall wasn't double covered all year. He got single covered a few times including Jets and Titans. But Dan Henning called the Offense against the worst defenses in the league and the Wildcat had no answer back then.