I tend to lean towards the Henne needing more time side, like I said in my *** backwards statistical analysis a few weeks back I think he can become as successfull as a Kyle Orton or a Matt Cassell type with a much better arm, but I tend to try and focus on the opposite point of view because I need to see improvement. With you and Marine obviously having watched Henne quite a bit my question would be what do you see as his most limiting weaknesses that we will need to see improvement on next year?
I think he can become every bit as good as Cassel or Orton with a better arm too. Off the top of my head in no particular order. 1. Getting an offseason to work on beating zone coverage. Priority #1 I would guess. (getting some players in here- #2 TE, vertical threat, and improved ground game to better attack zone should aid this. He shreds man coverage, so if we have the personnel to attack cover 2, then we should see him in more favorable passing situations, no?) 2. 1 of his indirect weaknesses IMO are when this staff puts him into situations that aren't to his strength: like too many fake playaction calls that temporarily divert his eyes from coverage. if we stick more to his strengths (3 WR sets, use of motion, getting into 3rd and short-medium rather than 3rd and long), then I think that will limit some of his weaknesses and show us improvement. 3. Pocket presence and maybe doing some footwork drills to try and get him a little quicker on his feet. (I do like that we saw him progress into throwing passes away rather than forcing throws, and then late in the year tucking and running rather than taking a sack, so hopefully he can continue to improve here.) I think this is one area of his game that we have to look at in a "baby steps" approach as long as he's continuing to improve. 4. Locking onto receivers. (IMO he's still having to think too much and the game hasn't settled in yet for him. A new OC who can mix things up a bit and play more to his strengths will indirectly speed this process up IMO..... as will getting in a few extra "trusty" playmakers who can get down field quicker and get open quicker at the 8+ yard range so he doesn't have to lock onto them as long while waiting for the play to develop. I'd be locking onto Bess and Marshall too if I had Moore, Wallace, and Curtis as my other options.) 5. Leadership & passion (I'd want him to step up and really try to own this thing.... work on getting the team on his side this offseason- lead by example and bust his butt beginning in January) 6. Getting his vertical threat in camp as soon as possible so he can work on chemistry. 7. Easing in pump fakes and staring off coverage (As the game continues slowing down and becoming 2nd nature, I expect to see this emerge from his play.) 8. I dont have a problem with the checkdowns b/c I think that's more due to personnel than Henne b/c he probably threw downfield as many times in the Michigan-Florida game as he's done all year here. This is another baby-steps area. 9. Getting him more involved in the redzone. I don't know how ANY QB is supposed to jump to the next level when he's taken out for the WC or when a coach CONSTANTLY plays for FGs. He's a good QB inside the 20 and needs to be used there more often so that he can become even better. 10. I'd tinker a little bit with elevating his arm angle and see how he responds.... but that should take a back seat to everything else b/c we don't want him taking a step backwards next year b/c we're focusing on his delivery. I'd maybe save his delivery point till after next year so we're not throwing the entire book at him. 11. Getting him out of the overly conservative mentality that this current regime has put him in. I'd like to see him being a conservative gunslinger.... if there is such a thing. I'm probably missing a few things but that's what comes to mind.
Working his *** off has not been his mindset. His physical body sure but just this season, he started to try and become a film room junkie. Hopefully he is a bright guy because he needs to learn to read defenses much better than he's shown. Most of the physical stuff is in tact. It's upstairs that needs work and that is not easily taught. Lets say I have him told differently. Henne, you have all the tools to be a good NFL Qb so I want you to work your *** off this offseason and come into camp ready to compete for the starting Qb job which is, at this time, up for grabs. I'll get some more weapons, get the line to get the Qb more time, and put a system in that is more Qb friendly. One that will run the ball well, and throw it deep more OFTEN. So get in the film/training rooms and you're welcome to live at the facility if you like. But you will have to work work work your butt off if you wish to be the Miami Dolphins starting Qb. Oh and by the way Chad, I'm pulling for you. Not holding my breath but pulling for you...
I've typed it more than a few times. He was directly in line and JUST to the right of where Bess was lying on the ground. No way Bess catches that ball. Levy had a damned good break on the ball so it was either an INT or a batted ball. The angle he came in would not have caused pass interference.
LOL, first of all, in this argument, you're already one step down. The ball was in fact, intercepted. The rest is what ifs on your part.... The coach defended his player. The player who actually picked it said, he'd have got to the ball no matter what. Ohh my, who to believe?
Not whom, but what. I believe the video. I believe my own two eyes. I believe the truth. All point to the fact that Bess fell down. If he doesn't fall, the ONLY way that ball is intercepted is if the LB runs through Bess.
Do I have to type it for a tenth time? No way it's pass interference. It is an interception or a BATTED Ball. Truth is told in the video. Levy caught the ball correct? The rest is made up so instead of accusing someone to be making things up. Look in the mirror first.
LMAO. How do you know what Chad Henne's mindset or work ethic is? I'm guessing you're not a coach, player, or any other person in a position to observe his habits closely so why even go there? Hopefully he is a bright guy? He needs help upstairs? If only he had a sharp football mind like you, right? I'm dying to hear you back up these statements with some evidence b/c so far you've offered conjecture, platitudes and not much else. And I'd hate to think you'd be on here questioning a guy's football knowledge when you yourself have no more than a elementary understanding of the game. So I'm pulling for you. Not holding my breath, but I'm pulling for you.
IMO he's trying to argue that Henne is not the answer at QB. And he, like a lot of people, are willing to use the flimsiest of evidence to support their preconceived opinion. Henne has officially become the fans' whipping boy, the scapegoat for all of the team's problems, even more so than Dan Henning if you can believe it. So it doesn't matter that Bess falling down made the interception possible, or that Bess' fumble early in the game cost us 3 points. Or that Sparano himself said Henne had one of his better games as a pro. Or that if we had a running game we'd have never been throwing into the wind up 10 late in the 4th in the first place. Henne's mistakes are the ones being magnified above all others. He's the designated fall guy for the fans, and everyone else is swimming upstream.
You forgot Brandon Marshall dropping a 3rd & 5 pass that hit him square in the hands. Or John Jerry's penalty that negated a big play. Or the fact that Mickey Shuler was our #1 TE for part of the game. Henne gets almost no help from anyone on this team. Anyone. And it's been that way for most of the season.
Or Jake Long's penalty when we had 2nd and goal from the 1. Or McQuistan's 2 false starts. Or Sean Smith dropping another pick. Or the D allowing the long TD to Best, or Dobbins allowing long completions down the middle all game. None of that matters, it's all about Chad Henne and his bad luck INTs. Now if we grab a Ryan Mallet or Cam Newton or Kyle Orton, all of the fans will put their pitchforks away. Until the new QB throws a pick that is.
With respect, brother, this is a professional football player we are discussing here, not a freaking mollycoddle. We shouldn't need to koom bah yah the guy and worry about his fragile little psyche. Kick him in the a** and tell him he delivers or he's gone. That's what football is.
Drew Brees is the most notable off the top of my head. I'm sure there were a number of other opportunities. None as bad as passing on Brees though..... Organization passed on him TWICE I might add. The second screw up most likely cost this franchise yet another decade of spinning it's wheels with no success to show for it.
Come on Ozz... argument about Henne aside, what is the player who intercepted the ball going to say when asked about the gift wrapped INT given to him because a WR fell down. Most of these guys are cocky as hell. Of course he's going to say I'd have had it anyway. If you wan't to argue Henne's shortcomings this is the wrong play to focus on. There are plenty of others to argue that make a better point to discuss.
Blah blah blah blah blah. Now go back re-read where I claimed he was stupid or lacked knowledge. Oh yeah, you can let the air out anytime soon because you've done nothing but jump to your own conclusions here, and you're dead wrong in your assumptions. It is a fact that Chad Pennington came out, and said in the nicest way, that Chad Henne had only recently become a film room junkie. So yes, HOPEFULLY, he is a bright guy, and you know why? Because his window for being a starting Qb in the NFL will close on him before he knows it. So yeah, he will have to be a bright guy if he wants to overcome his reading of defenses, and blitzes, in a SHORT time. Now what's wrong with saying he needs help upstairs? I guess you're assuming that I'm claiming he is stupid? WRONG! My meaning is he needs help with the mental portion of his game, and as I stated, he has lots of physical tools. So tell me now, my elementary school teacher, tell me what else is left FOOTBALL WISE? I sure hope you don't think it is more physical tools?? Now next time you want to jump into a thread, where the most you've done is place thank you's all over the place. Come with some ammo or be nicer and you'll get plenty of good replies but if you wish to get into a pissing match with me, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Oh yeah, before you jump to another conclusion let me be clear. By that I mean, you will only get a few replies from me in a pissing match then I'll just move on to someone who can talk or debate decently. Mr. GM.....
Right but when the coach defends his players in the same manner it's different? That's how my reply came about. But for the record. The players point of view of it is exactly how I saw it before he came out and said he jumped the route....
Start reading my posts more. I've said it at least 20 times. I don't want Henne gone. I want Henne here next year and much much more. Someone such as Todd brings a ton of ammo when debating why he wants Henne to continue here and why he thinks he's struggled but you know what? He ackowledges the fact that he has struggled. Even if we don't agree on how much, he brings backing and substance with his debate. For your information, I've beat Dan Henning to death, and even made a thread up after the loss to the Brownies that I think Sparano is in over his head. I've said the line has sucked, said the running game is not the same. So If I want to say something negative about Chad Henne, I feel that I damned sure have the right too and especially when I've stated over and over again that Henne should not be cut or traded. What else you got Mr. GM ?
You do realize that his quote of mine had nothing to do with what the interception or the video evidence? Or are you just trying to jump on the wagon of anything negative said about or against me?
I’m as disappointed as the next guy with Henne’s performance down the stretch, but my biggest concern is what happened to the 22 rushing TDs from last year. We’re talking about a 98 point differential on the ground from last year. I guess my question is which phase of the offense is more disappointing? Granted, Henne didn’t progress as we would have liked. But he certainly didn’t get much help.
I am concerned about this as well. The idea that most of the posters are blaming everything on Henne is just showing poor reading comprehension. In fact most people who are down on Henne want him back next year, including myself. I also believe that they only way he will be back is if Sparano is the coach. I do think there are a lot of problems on the offense, I just see Henne's play as one of them. I am not seeing a quarterback who is playing well, making everyone else around him better, and yet the team just isn't catching up. In fact reading Toddphin's posts on what the Dolphins need to do to make Henne succeed actually help my point because I would rather not have a quarterback who needs a perfect situation to play well. Even when Manning is struggling, due to the injuries of the team, you can notice there is a good quarterback playing with poor weapons. I am not expecting Manning out there, I would just like a quarterback who isn't a drag. Right now, I see a quarterback who is dragging the team down. He is not the only drag on the team, he might not even be the biggest drag on the team, however he is still a drag. Can he improve to be a player, who isn't a drag? Maybe. Can he improve to be a player who actually pushes the team and makes them look better because he is the quarterback? Probably not. I am just not excited about a player who when I see him the best I can hope for is a Shawn Hill.
MY concern at this point with Henne..besides all the obvious question marks that have all been pointed out is his lack of confidence at this point. He looks like a scared broken indecisive player. He shows little passion or fire. He lacks any aggresiveness and is going faster backwards in his development than forward. Run him out there for another performance like these past few and I begin to wonder if he ever comes back to a point of being succesful
You have me confused Good Sir. I'm not Todd Phins, I lack the patience to debate/discuss with someone who has nothing to add to the discussion. I'm not going to go back and forth about this or that with anyone who so clearly displays such a basic understanding of the game. If you want to bash Chad Henne, go for it. But if you can't talk 3-5-7 step drops, coverages, protections, WR splits, route combinations, footwork etc., then frankly, you have no business judging the guy other than to blow hot air. I'm not a professional scout or talent evaluator, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I have no access to the teams game plans, play call sheets or coaches film. For those reasons, I can't pass judgment or make any real conclusions on just how well or poorly Chad Henne played. I realize that none of that means anything to a casual fan like yourself, but football is a complicated game, where things don't always appear as they seem on the surface. I hope some day you'll realize that just how much you don't know. Predictably, you didn't answer a single question that I posed. You, in fact, have NO CLUE has to how much time Henne, or anyone else on the team, puts into film study. You speak of reading defenses, blitzes etc, but you obviously have never stood under center so its much easier for you to judge. You're questioning the mental aspect of the man's game as if your knowledge of the game is superior, FOOTBALL WISE, we all know it is not. It's not about being nice, its about knowing what you're talking about before you mouth off about how a professional needs to improve. Any clown can sit on a forum and spew nonsense about a QB's shortcomings, but unless you have played/coached/studied the game, you really don't know what you're talking about, and that's the bottom line. I apologize if I come off as crude, but I tire of hearing armchair QB's bash members of my team, when they haven't the slightest idea what they are talking about. Reality is, I could bash Henne ALL DAY LONG if I wanted. I could name dozens of mistakes he's made in each game. I could name countless errors that 90% of observers don't even see b/c you don't know what they're looking at. But there's no point in it. Henne is a young (average) QB with a subpar supporting cast being asked to cover deficiencies that transcend anything that's wrong with him alone and mistakes are expected and in some cases welcomed. You don't seem to grasp that, but casual fans never have much subjectivity or objectivity, its the nature of term "fanatic". I don't cater to public/popular opinion and I could care less how many positive replies I receive. Neither does Chad Henne, or Tony Sparano, or anyone else that realizes the fickle nature of popular/public opinion. I certainly won't lose sleep over whether you choose to debate with me nor not. You have no real football knowledge to fall back on, nothing to enlighten or teach me with, if you did you'd have spit it out long ago. You bash Henne, question his football acumen, when your own understanding the game pales in comparison to his. But you have a keyboard and an ISP, so you get to make your feelings, however uniformed, known to everyone. Congratulations.
My apologies Ozzy, but I'm not going to restate my opinion if Henne, I've made countless posts about his shortcomings and not much changes from week to week. 1. He doesn't manipulate the defense with his eyes 2. He loses focus downfield when scrambling to avoid pressure 3. He fails to alter his delivery to compensate for arms in his primary passing lanes 4. He locks on to his primary target for a count too long before moving thru his progression to #s 2 & 3 5. He fails to show emotion and motivate his teammates to perform at a higher level He makes these same mistakes over and over, every week. They are all signs of a young, still developing QB who doesn't quite the confidence to trust his reads. He's not seeing the game with the speed needed to have success. Having said that, his shortcomings pale in comparison to the shortcomings of the other 10 guys and the coaching staff. Only an elite QB could have success in Henne's shoes, and Henne is far from elite. He has no running game. He has no play action game. His OL is leaky. He has no playmakers who can manufacture yds after a short catch. He has no speed outside who can stretch the field and widen his passing windows. He has no OC who is willing to cater the offense to what he does best. He's in his 2nd year, when most QBs take a step back to due to teams having tape they can use to attack his weaknesses. Most QB's would regress, some badly, under those conditions. But despite all of that, Henne's numbers have improved. His play has improved even as defenses have become more adept at defending him. That is a cause for optimism, that in his 3rd year as a starter, with a better group around him, he will have a increased success. I won't pretend to know what's going to happen with Henne. Maybe he becomes a good QB, maybe he mires in mediocrity, maybe he's out of the league this time next year. I don't know. What I won't do is pass judgment on him when he's still in the infancy of his NFL career and had shown flashes of very good play even without an ideal supporting cast. I'm interested in rooting for the kid and hoping that he's given the tools and opportunity to succeed. I'm not interested in weekly bash sessions where every mistake is magnified and taken out of context. But that's just me.
Another pissing match post by you good sir. <note extreme sarcasm> I told you these would not last long because I will soon choose to just snicker when you post and move on to someone who likes to talk football. I really try my best not to talk someone in a personal manner. It's not about popular opinions. It's about respecting the owners of the site I'm posting at. So.... Instead of making a bunch of excuses up to go after me personally, just stfu and shut me the #### up by picking my posts apart with your expertise. Mr. GM
Your opinions of Henne do not bother me one bit. As a matter of fact, I am somewhat confused because I've said the exact same things, albeit in different ways, over and over. So If I want to go a little farther and make some complaints about the coach, the Rb's, the OC, and yes, the Qb, I don't see what the problem is? However, your accusations of my knowledge, and the fact that you're taking things on a personal level with me are troublesome. So if you want to debate football feel free. I know for a fact that I can stand keyboard to keyboard with the best of them. I'm not always correct, and I'm far from perfect but I know enough about Football to hang with them.
I think Sean Hill is the better Qb right now but Henne has more upside. Great post by the way. By Great, I mean, and this is for those who might think I'm a Henne basher, but it's great to me because you hit the nail on the head of many of my opinions. Thanks for explaining it this way....
In previous posts. I have stated that the problem is just not Henne. I fully recognize that the offensive line is a major problem. Other than Jake Long. I doubt if any of the other offensive linemen presently playing for the Dolphins could start for any other team in the AFC East. Vernon Carey was having a terrible year before he was injured. I also agree that the Dolphins need a severe upgrade at the running back position. Rickey and Ronnie do not have the explosion or speed they did when they were younger. Of course, the offensive line not being able to open holes on running plays doesn't help Ricky and Ronnie much either. At wide receiver. The Dolphins have no one with the speed to constantly threaten opposing defenses. It is very simple to defend the Miami passing game because of this lack of speed. Of course Henne has not shown that he is an effective down field passer to begin with. His deep throws have been terrible and even when receivers do get behind the defense. Henne has been unable to complete the pass. So getting a receiver who can constantly run past the secondary would probably be a complete waste of time if Henne is the QB throwing him the ball. So yes. I agree the offense as a whole is a problem. I agree many of the positions on the offense need major upgrades. I just happen to believe that the most important position on offense is the QB. So that is where I think the Dolphins need to start if they really intend to create a more productive and explosive offense. When I look at all the starting QB's in the league who were drafting in the last three years. I think that Henne is by far the worst starting QB in this group. I have nothing personal against Henne. He seems like a good guy. I just have no interest in wanting him to be the QB of the Dolphins after this season.
You were making a few good points, but after this comment, I'm not sure I can take what you say seriously.... no offense meant. Clausen? Sanchez? and possibly Stafford? Just b/c Ryan, Flacco, Freeman, and Bradford are tearing it, does NOT mean that Henne is in the "worst" category. Those are a tough 4 guys to be compared to in general. How about all the QBs who were drafted who aren't starting? How's Henne compare to them? Just sayin.
To be honest. I forgot that Clausen was even the starting QB for the Panthers when I made the comment above. So I will admit that Henne is as least as good, (or as bad), as Clausen. As far as Sanchez and Stafford. Personally I would take either one of these two QB's over Henne. Sanchez only started one year in college. He is still learning the position and I think he has far more upside than Henne. Stafford has played well for the Lions. His problem is that he has been injured quite a bit in his two years in the NFL. But I would trade Henne for Stafford or Sanchez, any day of the week. As far as Clausen goes. He has been the starter for only part of the season on a terrible football team. I never thought he was that good at ND, but he should be given a little more time as a starter before we know if he will turn out to be better than Henne. As far as the QB's who have been drafted in the last three years and who are not starting. Most of them are either no longer in the league or they are backups on an NFL roster. Of course ,other than Kolb with the Eagles, and Edwards, wherever he is now. All these other QB's were drafted after the second round of the drafts and they were never projected to be starting QB's as Henne was. I would trade Henne for Kolb in a heartbeat. The only reason Kolb isn't starting is because he is playing behind Vick. If Vick were playing for the Dolphins. Henne would be a backup for Miami too. I admit that Henne appears to be better than Edwards. Especially since Edwards was cut by the Bills. But saying Henne is better than Edwards really isn't saying much. I have felt for some time now that Henne will eventually end up as a long term backup QB in the NFL. I don't think he will be a member of the the Dolphins much longer and the Dolphins will once again be searching for their QB of the future.
