Dude, your opinion of his reaction is DIRECTLY tied to your opinion of what happened on the play. Marshall dropped a pretty easy catch on a 3rd and 5 IIRC. That's the same as a turnover basically. I don't hear you harping on how he didn't make the play, his reaction afterwards or anything. Not b/c you didnt see the play, because it doesn't support your preconceived opinion. You've been going after Henne for weeks now, and your view of events is incredibly biased. Oh, I wasn't trying to show any animosity. It's not that serious. I'm just pointing out, with a joke, how you're willing to grab at the thinnest of straws to support your point. Go back and watch what happened when Marshall came out of his break. Then tell me how "terrible" the throw was.
That wasn't directed towards you at all, Stitches. That was directed towards GMJohnson and in reply to a post he had. Sorry for the confusion. Nice post.
Actually there are only three guys that seem to disagree. I don't think it'd be a stretch to say I'm in the majority with this stance--which means absolutely nothing and doesn't diminish your opinion at all I can't say that Chad Henne is a reason why we lack big plays and our offense struggles based on what I've seen? Based on a missed TD to Brandon Marshall today. A missed big play to Kevin Curtis last week, a missed TD to Brian Hartline against Cleveland...I don't want to go into it all because I don't think that negatively of the guy. He's had some good plays. However, it's my opinion based off what I've seen, no pre-conceived notion of what I thought he should be, or where he should be at this stage of his career, etc. etc., but what I've seen these past two years, especially here lately that he isn't the QB I want. Of course I'm using certain things in my discussion to prove my point. Are you doing anything differently? Please feel free to look at my posts in this thread, including the original and I've said that some negatives that show up in the box score are not his fault, like the first INT. I'm more disappointed about the play(s) that weren't made Let me ask you this, which has yet to be answered for me...From what I'm reading you'd like the offense to be shouldered less on Chad Henne, mainly with the help of the running game. That is called be a more conservative and not wanting your QB to win the game for you. Why is it then, everyone calls for the coaching staff's head when they do that? I mean you can't have it both ways. You get ticked when they run the ball, play for points, two scored, to the strength of their team (defense), when they don't call for him to throw the ball more, downfield more, be more aggressive, take chances, etc. etc. And now, you're upset because they're not more of a caretaker with the guy, not having him shoulder the load. I've also heard this offense is designed for Chad Pennington, who was called a caretaker. Would that not make it beneficial for a guy they're not looking to shoulder the load or put in difficult situations? By the way the throwing the ball 44 times is extremely skewed. Ten or more of those throws are added on after the two interceptions caused us to lose a 10 point lead. Before that, we were very balanced. I apologize if that's the idea you were getting from me saying you don't understand. I didn't mean to insinuate you don't understand the game, or what I'm talking about. I was trying to say you don't understand my point. I've talked about a million and one things in her which makes me think that my original statements have been diluted. I don't think Chad Henne is the QB of this team. I don't think he measures up to a guy that leads us to anything special. I believe that because he's had opportunities to make plays and he doesn't. More importantly, I don't think he's a smart QB on the field. I think we need a change there. If we get steady production from that position, I believe you'll see our offensive output change--maybe change drastically.
Sorry, but my BS alarm is ringing loudly. Please explain to me how Finnegan boasting about being able to predict Marshall's routes pre-snap based on our formations has anything whatsoever to do with Chad Henne. I'll wait. This is why people like me and others have a hard time taking you seriously. For every valid point you make, you surround it with assertions that can only be described as absolute reaches. Personally, I don't have much of a problem with your point of view. I disagree with a lot of what you say. But you'd be better off just stating it in a reasonable manner rather than reaching constantly to make those who disagree with you out to be fools.
Henne's 4th quarter meltdowns are enough to show me he isn't even as good as Jay Fiedler, and he is not going to lead us to the playoffs. He has the worst 4th quarter stats in the entire NFL. And his 2nd half of the season is bad for the 2nd straight year. If not for the stout defense, Henne would have fumbled away the game against the Jets when Miami was in FG range, he's lucky the D stopped them or it would be 4 straight game losing turnovers.
Then why are we asking him to throw 35+ times a game, especially in the 4th qtr with a lead and into a crazy wind? What point are you trying to make here b/c I'm not sure what it is to be honest. Where's the proof to why we resort to an unsuccessful ground game in the redzone and play for a FG when we have a QB with an 86 rating with 9 TDs to 2 INTs in the redzone (with 1 of those coming off a last 2nd play vs NY)? We've given him only 43 attempts this year. Bradford has 11 TD's in the redzone...... but he has almost twice as many attempts with a 77 rating. Drew Brees has an 89 rating in the redzone, but his stats & TDs look awesome (21 TDs) because he has 93 redzone pass attempts (with 4 INTs). If you doubled Henne's redzone pass attempts, his stats would look just like Brees's. Two of the worst things this regime could do for Henne is taking him out in the redzone for the WC, or calling runs to play for FGs. How does a QB develop if we're taking away his opportunities? If you want to maximize your QB's potential, then he needs more practice, not less. And by the way, Penny is a seasoned veteran while Henne is still learning the position. Of course a team will give Penny more slack.
If Bess doesn't fall, Levy isn't jumping the route unless he goes through Davone. Last time I checked, that draws a PI call.
No KP.... we're wrong. And the announcers are wrong too b/c they also feel that Marshall doesn't have the speed to be a vertical threat (or run under passes) which is why he's made his career out of catching short-intermediate throws and turning them into something.
My arguments sure the heck place blame on the Qb. Sure do but what you want is for me to forget Henne because he is young (were them not your words) and place blame on this young defense? A defense that has given up 20 points or less 9 times this season!!! A defense that has two second year starters at Cb, and one at Safety? One that's been riddled by injuries? Go ahead and keep using the words young, and developing. It's ok but the defense is young too, and developing nicely I might add. I've been killing the offensive coordinator all season and killing Sparano the past two weeks! So I don't just pick on Henne because he is Henne. Both of his picks were on his Wr's? Now that is funny! OK lets say you're even half correct which you're not. Did you miss the other three passes early in the game (was this the part of the game where he was excellent because it sure the heck wasn't the 4th Quarter) where Henne made BAD throws that would have been easy int's returned for touchdowns if the defender had not dropped them? Henne is young, and surely, most definitely, he needs more developing because, and I could care less what people say about talent around him at the skill positions, he plays good for 30 minutes then it's like the clock stikes midnight and he turns into a pumpkin for the rest... Yeah, it's the defense that's the problem
Please tell me you don't believe this. Henne, when drafted, was a big armed QB who threw a lot of passes downfield at Michigan and was at his best with 3+ receivers on the field. How is putting him in a dink and dunk Penny type offense that uses a lot of 2 WR sets and short precision passing routes "matching his skill set"? How is drafting Turner & Hartline when we already had Bess and Cammy "matching his skill set"? This is a "possession" based offense. Henne is not a possession type QB; he's a thrower. Do you really think that coaches & organizations aren't fallible or don't make mistakes? This offense wasn't designed for a Penny type QB? It screams "Penny" which is one reason Penny was successful. Any offense that's perfect for Penny is far from perfect for Henne b/c they are different style QBs. You know how I know that the offense wasn't designed properly for Henne? Here's 6 reasons: Bess, Camarillo, Turner, Hartline, Fasano, Nalbone. These are the guys this regime was building the offense around going back to the offseason before Henne took over. These guys do not fit Henne's skill set. They are possession guys best suited for a Penny type QB..... and we took these guys instead of playmakers, speed guys, vertical threats etc who match Henne's arm. The only guy who fit Henne's skill set was Ginn, and we traded him.
Marshall gets a half a step on someone that is seperation enough and his Qb's in Denver showed this man. Gotta chuckle a little here though. So your saying that Marshall, because he's too slow, did not get to where he was supposed to be and that Henne placed the ball perfectly? Insert little chuckle....
We're not talking about 9 times all season. We're talking about THIS GAME. Ahhh, our defense gets a pass for their bad play b/c of their past play, which in turn makes ALL of the blame fall on the QB by default? I got now. Ok, we're clear. No, both picks weren't on his WRs. One was on a WR. The other was on a TE..... if we're being accurate. He's is only good for 3/4 of his game. He's young & still developing. What do you expect when things are falling apart around him and you're asking him to throw it 40 times a game? If he had a better cast and a ground game that could eat up more of the offensive plays, then he might very well be effective for 100% of his game when he's not asked to DO IT ALL.
Have you rewatched it? Bess had about 2 yards worth of position on Levy. The ball was thrown where only Bess could've caught it if he didn't fall on his break.
Wouldn't say that as Bess did catch an edge and stumble, it had happened all game. As for skillsets, eh, oh boy going to go hippy here a bit, but sometimes you have to bite your lower lip when developing a Qb until they find their groove, 3 games lost on Henne int's..I get it..but Sparano also found what he can do consistently well. Now for that offensive line and defense and special teams.
LOL at the Chad Henne supporters still. You ALL will "Get It" When Chad Henne is not on our roster next year.
Cmon.... how many times a year does a player have to throw a football while facing serious wind gust issues like Henne & Hill saw? Are you actually trying to blame ANY QB for missing a deep throw in this game? This quote from Lions QB Hill about sums it up:
You've been making the young and developing arguments the last 3-4 weeks, and no, we're talking about Chad Henne, not just this weeks Chad Henne, and especially when you've used the same young and developing excuse for him when that defense was the only reason they were in those games to begin with. I'll tell you what I expect. I expect him to actually develop instead of play good then lose the game in the end, or not win it. It's like watching Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. I could care less about who he's playing with either. He's regressed more than developed and that's, how did you put it, if we're being, ummmm, accurate
Why? Did your $5 magic 8 ball tell you that he's going to be paralyzed from a spinal injury after his Oline gets him killed next week?
Depends CiF, I think there is a trade market for Chad Henne, I also think a new, aggressive, OC would make a world of difference for him, I used to not believe that until I really watched him in the No Huddle/Shotgun offense..he looked outstanding to me. Could understand if they move in a new direction, think that maybe they should rethink what they want to do on offense moving forwards.
If you're talking about what he can do well, and how you explained in earlier threads, and posts, the one where you said he looked great back there early on in the game? I say he played well but still nearly threw two pick sixes and it could have been three, maybe he catches him. So I don't completely buy into that threory just yet...
Of course his play hasn't taken a big leap forward when his ground game has gone from one of the best in the league to one of the worst, when the pass is abandoned in the redzone in favor of a FG, his Oline is dismantled, and his skill players have been hindered for half the season. I wouldn't expect otherwise from any still-developing QB. You can argue against his "development" all you like, but the fact still remains that there's a 3 year curve in the NFL for a reason, as well as sophomore slumps. I don't ignore these things just b/c I want him to be playing at a veteran level.
Man I gotta hand it to you. You'll go to no ends to try and prove it's not Henne. I also must add that the dudes been playing football since he was a kid. His skill set should be throw the ball to the players in his uniform, not the other ones,,,
Nor should you buy into it, let's face it Henne has been as ugly as a rock fish in our base offense, he just has been, there is no denying it, however the one flash he has shown, and he has shown it all yr is when he moves away from the 2 Te alignment to the 3 Wr alignment, he always has produced. Ck did a study on it. Anywho do go to that full time though..with Sparano? I do think Henne's arm really shines in that situation.
You're right. The NFL is completely that simple. There is no such thing as players matching skill sets or certain players being better for certain schemes. So according to your theory, then I guess we should just have Bess run 50 yards down field in 23 seconds and catch jump-balls since he's a receiver and all. Right?--- he runs deep, the ball is thrown to him, and he makes the catch? So why don't we have Bess running verticals all game long?.... or even half the game? By the way, I've never said that Henne has no role in the blame game. He's a young QB; of course he's going to do stupid things and share some of the fault. Today, however, I don't see him at fault.
Putting the pity smiley towards me. Wow! I don't hate Chad Henne. I don't want them to get rid of Chad Henne. I want Henne here to compete for a starting position next season. That said, I don't buy into these arguments you keep putting up in his defense....constantly. Could Henne actually win the starting job next year? He could but I don't see it unless he really really works his tail off and by that, I don't mean just go out and throw 10,000 passes to Marshall. I mean he better watch more film than it's actually possible to do. He needs to learn the sweet spots in zone defenses and he especially needs to learn where the disguised blitzes are coming from. Then he needs to take that out onto the practice field and throw 10,000 passes to work on beating them...
Actually, I've said similar things about using more of a spread offense with a single back. He's also improved in the shotgun big time. He still can look like a starr one minute then comes the not occasssional, but consistant, boneheaded throw.
So its just a developing Qb that almost threw two, never ever should have been thrown, pick sixes, early on in the game? The ones where it had nothing to do with the running backs sucking, the oline sucking, or the reciever sucking....
Here we go again. Back to the Henne is a down the field passer...only. Except he still makes that ever present boneheaded throw doing just that. It's one of the knocks on him coming out of college. Yeah, today he played great! Not really but yeah ok..
You deserved that smiley b/c you and I both know that it's not right to throw blame on any QB missing that throw in those conditions today. I agree 100% about the rest. I think he needs to grow in leaps and bounds this offseason. Can he do it? Heck if I know, but I do think it's entirely possible if he's actually given a break for once and this organization lets the offense truly be about Chad Henne b/c we both know that hasn't happened yet. I don't like how Chad is playing this year, but I like even less how this organization has developed him, played him, and surrounded him with players whom I strongly feel do not match his skill set. I feel bad for the kid. If I were a young strong armed QB, this is definitely not the first team I'd want to play for in this league. For ONE season I'd like to see him truly get a shot when things are the way they're supposed to be> less WC, no conservative BS, a good line, a good ground game, play calling & schemes that suit his strengths (more 3 WR sets & less phony PA calls that delay his field vision), and at least 2 playmakers added who can pick up chunk yardage b/c we're anemic in the department.
Sure, why not. Well, he settled down and got into a rhythm after that and was the only reason we were moving the ball down the field in the first half, was he not?
When the ground game comes alive, he won't be put into as many situations where he'll make as many bone headed throws. Has he not improved greatly on throwing it away or tucking and running this year? He wasn't running to avoid sacks earlier in the year like he is now. I'm guessing next season it'll be looking off the safeties if we're going in some sort of chronological developmental order. I don't think he's "only" a down field passer, but he has a strong arm that needs to be utilized downfield more often. We don't have any WRs who can really be clutch downfield and we both know it. At least get him a big, physical, vertical threat who can out-position a DB on a deep ball.... or a TE who is a real threat. Gosh, get the kid some sort of down field weapon. We're gonna need it if we want to give the ground game more space to open up so our RBs arent tackled as easily at the 2nd level or shortly there after.
He was in a decent rhythm for most of the first half but the almost picks did not come in bunches. Had one been returned his good half would have been for naught. So though he played pretty good, there is still reason for concern with him. I'd say he was not the only reason they moved the ball down the field today though. I won't discount him either but the offense clicked a few times, even running the ball.
I'm all for improving whomever on the team. Including Qb if they think one is right. But the ground game was not horrible today. They had over 100 yards and had a couple called back for either a stupid, or phantom penalty.
So how do we get him to where he's in a better rhythm for more of the game?.... or limit his mistakes during the rest? Can we get the ground game going so that we can drop his pass attempts? Add an extra playmaking WR so that maybe he won't be keying in on 1 or 2 WRs when he has more that he can trust? ???? What are you thoughts?
Then why did we ditch it late in the game in lieu of the pass despite the wind conditions? I'm not mocking you.... I'm actually asking your thoughts why. If we had a shot at Luck, I'd want to upgrade the QB position too. I'm actually hoping Luck stays another year so we can get our offense in order and get an honest exact read on Henne's future.
There's no denying that. A good question would be "why?".... especially after last year when he was closing out well for the most part.
