Yup. Next year Matt Barkley will probably get talked about as the #1 QB prospect in the Draft if he comes out, and he'd likely go above Foles. We don't know what Blaine Gabbert is going to do yet but he was leaning toward coming out this year, all the more reason for Foles to stay. Tyler Wilson has the potential to cloud up the 2012 Draft at the position, but since he'll only have had one year of starting, he would be better off staying in school until the 2013 Draft...and so I don't see any analysis by Nick Foles this year about whether he should come out in 2011 or stay to 2012, being as wary of Tyler Wilson as he maybe should be. Robert Griffin is the total wildcard, very likely to come out next year. He's a running QB, has run 333 times for 1511 yards and 23 TDs in 27 games, but he's also 479 of 749 (63.3%) passing with 5767 yards (7.7 YPA, 12.0 YPC), 40 TDs and only 11 INTs (1.47% INT rate). That's stellar. He's 13-14 (.481) as a starter at Baylor. This year they lost games to TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M and Oklahoma...basically all the games in which they were seriously overmatched. They won every other game (Sam Houston State, Buffalo, Rice, Kansas, Colorado, Kansas State, Texas). But in the end, I think that Foles will decide that not only does he stand a better chance against the 2012 class than the 2011 class, but I don't know that Arizona is losing enough talent to make him think that he should come out for that reason. He'll be losing his Center and Left Tackle, and his #2 RB. But his top three WR targerts including Juron Criner who had 1100 yards and 10 TDs, will all be back. His primary TE will be back. His primary RB will be back. If the OL can roll on without Colin Baxter and Adam Grant, the team's prospects for 2011 are at least as good as they were for 2010.
Not "definitely" but it's a possibility, especially if they want to entice Stephen Ross to continue shelling out money in free agency like he did with Jake Grove, Gibril Wilson, Karlos Dansby and Brandon Marshall. They called up the Patriots before the trade deadline asking after Logan Mankins. That situation isn't 100% but it looks like there will be a parting of ways. If that's the case I could see them coming to Stephen Ross and saying hey, we'd rather take the money we're set to pay Vernon Carey, and pay it to Logan Mankins. They really don't NEED to do that, and they probably shouldn't. Why mess with something that's not broken? Unless Carey's injuries are mounting and significant. But it might be t he only way they can convince Ross to shell out the money...sort of a "pay as you go" thing. In order to pay for Karlos Dansby and Brandon Marshall, they ditched Gibril Wilson, Joey Porter and Jake Grove. I don't think they had to do very much convincing in order to get Ross on board with Marshall but it's possible they had to with Dansby. Over 2009 and 2010 they have paid Vernon Carey about $14 million dollars in salary and bonuses. They are set to pay him at least $20 million over the next four years. His salary jumps tremendously from $950k in 2010 to $4.15 million in 2011, so the Dolphins are definitely reaching a decision point on him. When they signed him to an extension, they had the option of placing the franchise tag on him, and that would have cost them $8.5 million. So, if they were to jettison Carey after two years, they could look at it as they paid $7 million a year to get a guy for two more years, rather than paying about $9 million a year to keep him on franchise tags. And so now they have to decide if he's worth $5 million a year to them, or if they'd like to do something else with that money.
Tough to ask Ross to keep shelling out big dollars when you're not winning and you don't seem to know what you're doing on the o-line. The picks of Murphy and Thomas are coming back to haunt us. Not only would we have had those guard spots filled, but we could have bypassed Jerry and taken Hernandez/Jimmy Graham. Now we're looking at more draft picks on the o-line when we have major needs at WR, TE, RB and QB.
4th and 6th round picks coming back to haunt us? They got a year of starts out of that 6th round pick. That's way more than you expect from a normal 6th rounder. Come on, man. That's ridiculous. If anything the elephants in the room are Jake Grove and to some extent Justin Smiley. They're the guys that set us backward. But that's because Brian Gaine sucks at his job.
Either way, this regime has continually shot blanks along the o-line, their supposed specialty. Whether or not Gaine sucks at his job, it didn't take a genius to see that smiley and Grove, while good, were constantly injured. I don't blame Brian Gaine for us signing them in the face of such obvious and readily available information. If Murphy and Thomas work out, we're not having these problems. And the good teams draft guys in those rounds that end up playing well. Because Murphy and Thomas don't work out. And because Grove/Smiley are too expensive and too injury prone, we take yet another guard (John Jerry) instead of a TE. And now, we probably need to take another guard as well.
Speaking of Gabbert, what are anyone's thoughts on him that have seen him play. I haven't seen him play and there has been almost no talk of him around here. As for Carey, I'm not sure how great an idea it would be to get rid of him. Even after a down year, he's a solid RT and we have seen how difficult it is to find a good replacement on the offensive line with the tinkering and struggles of our interior over the past few years. And according to Barry Jackson if they cut him it would be a cap hit of $7 million.
If Brian Gaine is supposed to be the guy gathering that information in the first place and making the evaluation, and he didn't do that very well, then absolutely it is his fault. You have a guy doing a job for a reason. You don't have a guy doing a job so that you can do all of it simultaneously and unnecessarily. Have you ever been in charge of anyone, had someone work under you? Yes and I suppose if every draft pick they've made worked out we'd be winning the Super Bowl. Unfortunately that's a ridiculous standard to hold them up to. They've invested in a lot of low priced assets like Richie Incognito, Joe Berger, Nate Garner, Donald Thomas, Ikechuku Ndukwe, Andy Alleman and Pat McQuistan, and gotten better play from them than anyone could have rationally expected (including the market, which set their prices low for a reason). That's a fact. So we're going to pin them to the cross for low priced assets that didn't work out, like Shawn Murphy and Andrew Gardner? Nothing short of ridiculous. If you want to gripe, gripe about Jake Grove and Justin Smiley. Shawn Murphy and Donald Thomas are irrelevant.
We took Murphy over Carl Nicks. That drove me crazy at the time. The left side would be solid right now if we hadn't done that.
USC will lose a pair of first-team All-Pac-10 players to the draft as OT Tyron Smith and DT Jurrell Casey have decided to leave early, according to ESPN. Casey led the Trojans in sacks this season with 4½ and was recently named the team's MVP. Smiths could see his draft stock boost with a lackluster group of tackles in this year's draft class. Southern California RB Marc Tyler, who led the team in rushing with 913 yards, said he would return to school next season. The way we see it Smith has very long arms and is extremely athletic. While he may look the part, Smith still needs to grow into his body, as he lacks base strength at just 280 pounds. He would be ideal in a zone scheme. Given the high demand for offensive tackles, Smith could be drafted highly because of his upside, possibly in the first round, based on PFW's preliminary evaluations. Casey is projected to go in the second or third round. The high-motor, high-effort player excels at gap penetration. http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/12/15/report-uscs-ot-smith-dt-casey-declare-for-draft
If you want to speak of a 4th or 6th round LT, then you might have a valid point.... but we're talking about Guards here. We drafted them b/c we needed at least 1 of them to lock down the position. Cmon, we're talking 2 picks here, in the same draft, and on the same position. You can't whiff on both..... not when you draft them with hopes of becoming a starter..... and certainly not when your HC is an OLine guy. That's just embarrassing. And, yes, it is this regime's fault for even having Gaine look at Smiley & Grove in the first place. 300 lb men with a history of injury are risks..... and as such are likely to become injured again. We could've shelled out a couple million more for Jason Brown who hasn't missed a game in the past 4 years (like many of us wanted from the beginning for the sole reason due to Grove's health risk). Long---Nicks---Brown---?---Carey is a lot better than anything we have now.
Donald thomas was a starter, and a potential good one at that, until his injury. And, jason brown hasn't been very good with the Rams over the last 3 seasons.
A lot of teams took a lot of sh-tty players over Carl Nicks, including the team that picked Carl Nicks. Are we really reaching this deep for this type of criticism?
at least Jason sees the field.... and in our division full of 3-4 teams, he'd be an inviting upgrade somewhere on the interior since he was a G before a Center.
Jason Brown may not have missed any time but he also hasn't played particularly well for the Rams, for those actually watching him which I have (while I was scouting multiple games of Richie Incognito's). Go ahead and castigate a front office for missing on 4th and 6th round draft picks. I'll continue criticizing for more valid reasons.
It's not just the picks. It's the handling of the o-line in general. We're 3 years into this thing and haven't found a relaible pair of guards, which should be one of the easier positions to fill. And because of the steady stream of misses on the line (whether free agency or the draft) we're forced now to continue plunging resources into that unit which takes away from what we can spend on other, legitimate needs.
I'm not reaching deep. I was hoping Nick's name was called in the 4th round b/c I thought he would become good. Guess what? He's good. I could use your logic against you: How many teams would've taken 6th-7th round talent Murphy in the 4th round if we didn't do so? It's ok to reach through the clouds for him that early, but it's not ok to do so for a guy who actually had talent and potential? Or are you trying to say that Murphy was 4th round talent and drafted appropriately, without reaching? Bottom line is: we took Murphy (who was a reach) over Nicks. There's no twisting that. If he were true 4th round talent, then you'd have a valid argument, but he was a project and you know it. Only, people tried to rationalize the pick at the time by saying that "Sparano is an OLine guy so he must know what he's doing".
I choose to criticize for other more valid reasons too.... I just don't dismiss ones that I thought were dumb to begin with. They all add up. It probably doesn't help that the Rams had a poor Oline in general or that he was still new to the position. Either way, if he's proves to be only average at C, then he can be shifted to G where he was a stud.
Missing on the 4th and 6th didn't help us but it sure didn't hurt us. Missing on Pat White, Patrick Turner, and Phillip Merling's production at the #32 pick in the 2008 NFL Draft have hurt. I think the Dolphins should be in pretty good cap shape and Stephen Ross should be happy with Jake Grove's coming off the books as is Ricky Williams, Jason Allen, Chad Pennington, Ronnie Brown, and possibly Carey's. Personally I think you keep Carey even if you sign Mankins. They need to focus on locking up Soliai and Wake to long-term deals. They can worry about Wake after next season but Soliai could come at a pretty nice price. The only "big" contracts we have on the books are Jake Long, Karlos Dansby, Brandon Marshall, and Vernon Carey. They have done a nice job locking up Brandon Fields, Dan Carpeneter, Anthony fasano, and Davone Bess.
it took us three years to build a super bowl capable defense. i think we can give them another year to concentrate on the offense now
So you want to wait another 3 years for the offense to be good? And they've tried to build the line. They've just failed miserably. What gives you the confidence it will be gotten right this time?
No, the bottom line is, 32 teams missed out on Carl Nicks. Even the team that took him. Just like 32 teams missed out on Tom Brady, even the team that took him. That's the bottom line. It's a valid criticism that Miami missed on Carl Nicks' evaluation. Just as valid a criticism that the Patriots did, the Jets did, the Bills did, the Bengals did, the Browns did, the Ravens did, the Steelers did the...well, you get the idea.
The fact that their talent evaluations have generally be right on. Justin Smiley and Jake Grove were busts due to injuries. That should have been accounted for, but at least they didn't whiff on the talent end of it. They kept Vernon Carey, that's been a sound decision. They drafted Jake Long and don't give me any BS about oh well that was a no-brainer, I remember the atmosphere here and around the NFL and around the Draft world during that Draft, it was anything BUT a no-brainer. As I mentioned before, low priced guys they invested in have turned out to be better than the market thought, in some cases dramatically better, castoffs and cheap price tag guys like Nate Garner, Ikechuku Ndukwe, Andy Alleman, Pat McQuistan, Joe Berger, Donald Thomas, Richie Incognito, all of whom have played far better than the market expected. Hell, the only TALENT misses they've had were trading away Samson Satele because they didn't think he could hack it (he had a torn labrum, he's been fine in Oakland), Shawn Murphy, and Andrew Gardner. That's it. There are a number of significant flaws in your guys' thinking on this one. 1. This is not a race where only the finish line counts, nor is 2010 the finish line. You seem to be implying that because the line has flaws right now, they've failed. What about 2008? What about 2009? They had one of the best OLs in all of football in 2009. They had a very solid line in 2008, especially the second half of the year when it really gelled under the new system. In your book, only 2010 seems to count. 2. You also seem to be ignoring that this is perhaps the finest pass protecting line in the NFL, or at the very least top 5. The run blocking may be bad but the pass protection has been really good for most of the year, and overall the OL is probably top half of the league when you consider the two aspects of the game together.
Overall this front office has handled the Draft really well. They've accumulated extra picks and made good use of them. They obviously have not hit on every pick, nobody does, and one reason you focus on accumulating extra picks is because you realize that you're going to miss. But when you consider that they have squandered picks like Phil Merling (#32), Pat White (#44) and Pat Turner (#87)...and yet you still come away from your DRAFT EVALUATIONS in 2008 & 2009 (two years, that's it) having acquired guys like: Jake Long, Kendall Langford, Lex Hilliard, Davone Bess, Dan Carpenter, Nate Garner, Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, Brian Hartline, Chris Clemons and Ryan Baker....that's superb treatment of the college evaluation process. Superb. You've got 8 starter caliber players in there...in two drafts...the oldest of which is only just now getting to the end of the standard three year period it takes to really evaluate a Draft. Harp on the Shawn Murphys and Donald Thomas', or even the Pat Whites and Phil Merlings all you want...that's superb Draft work.
You've made your point, but let's not go nuts over guys like Hartline, hilliard and Ryan Baker. I agree that overall they've done a good job, but the fact remains that we're still futzing around with the interior line, now going into year 4. The finish line ought to be coming over the hill relatively soon.
It's taken us 3 years to develop a SB capable defense, but in 3 years we can't figure out the interior of our Oline. That's irony right there.
Personally I don't think there's ever going to be a finish line. Every year is a struggle in the free agency era of the NFL. Every year you have to deal with the challenges of losing guys because of money, or because of injury, or both. I would HOPE that John Jerry becomes a fixture on the line. I think he's shown some potential. We'll see, he wasn't a guy I thought would play well in his first year.
Very true. I hope the interior of the line improves next year, as we are reaching a point where we should start winning.
A lot of OLs, even on the best teams in football, are really only performing in mediocre fashion. I insist that our RBs are weak, they're living off reputation alone. Ricky Williams can't get to the outside, and can't break a tackle to save his life. Ronnie Brown is losing his speed considerably, you saw how he broke wide open against Minnesota but could only get to the 50 yard line before someone who on paper should be slower than him was able to outrun him and force him out of bounds. The speed and explosion he's lost are exposing the weaknesses that he's always had, which are that he's way too hesitant in the backfield and doesn't see or anticipate the holes quickly enough. Obviously, we have limitations at the QB position as well. We also have a lead blocking fullback that doesn't lead block very well anymore. Meanwhile, our offensive play calling and play design have been misguided at best, at worst flat out over-simplistic with no attention to detail. Half the aspects of our play designs have no purpose or vision. We have OLs that pass protect immediately off the snap on play-action passes, running backs who don't even bother to fake like they're taking a hand-off before setting up shop for a pass block or a route, play designs that involve only one route that could be relevant to accomplishing the goal for a given situation, formation tendencies that are easily predictable, a non-existent audible system, a kill call system that is rigid and stays the same regardless of circumstance, play-action passes on 25% of passes featuring a QB the coaching staff has admitted hates the shotgun because he doesn't like taking his eyes off the defense, a system of perpetual half-rollouts (that cut off half the field and half the receivers out on routes) featuring a QB that anyone with eyes can tell is not very mobile or flexible, a general unwillingness to move the offense's best play maker around in order to get him more favorable spacing and matchups and get the ball into his hands more, a general unwillingness to give the one of our two backs that can still shake tacklers chances to hit the open field through the air, a tendency to call fullback dives on 1st & 10, and a tendency to feature a slow fullback that has no hope of shaking would be tacklers in the passing game. These are not misguided criticisms nor imagined observations. There are many things holding the offense back and only one of them is the mediocre blocking of the interior OL...and not a major one at that, IMO.
a parcells team is dominated by defense. at least they finished the job accomplishing that. now they have to build the offense to be the type of run dominating, time consuming monster they envisioned three years ago. You're not going to get everything right when you go through a complete dismantling and then rebuilding. They definitely screwed up the oline but its also obvious they didnt prioritize last year. They did in 2008, they realized they screwed up in 2009 with the injuries to their line and made a half assed attempt of rebuilding it. I think now that the defense is 90% finished they can concentrate on rebuilding the offense in their image which starts with the line. Look for two impact linemen to be added this off season. Whether through free agency or the draft I believe its almost certain
i think the only time they prioritized it was 2008 and they actually built a good line. Unfortunately it was as brittle as glass. I think last year they tried to change it on the cheap. I think this year instead of a Dansby or Marshall you will see us go after a Mankins. Instead of an Odrick or Misi. You will see us go after a D Love or Pouncey
Its obvious our interior line has regressed over the past year, get a solid FA like an Evin Mathis....as far as the RB's being to blame Im not sure I agree although a guy with breakaway speed will be a breath of fresh air.
wonder if kory sheets would have done anything? anybody know if he showed anything in camps this year or was it more of the same?
Neither of our Running Backs can get to the holes quick enough or do anything in space. If a guy is in front of them they get tackled, they really need to be able create a little on their own. I would settle for average speed at this point, I would be surprised if either of these guys ran much faster than 4.7 at this point. Neither qualifies as a power guy anymore as they aren't exactly running people over.
Too bad we cant trade Odrick for a 1st or a player of need and just re-sign McD. Odrick and Berger for Alex Mack?
That's a fair point. The way McDaniel has played, if Odrick doesn't pan out quickly we'll miss him. But I think Tony has told people he wants to go somewhere he'll start and even if we traded Odrick, McDaniel likely would not start over Starks and Langford. The Dolphins can try and appeal to him and point out that his 421 snaps is actually one more than the "starter" Paul Soliai, but I don't know if that will work. You're right though if McDaniel was willing to play ball, and someone out there thought highly enough of Odrick to trade something valuable to us for him, then that would be an ideal situation. I wonder if Miami might try and actually put a franchise tag on him and trade him? I guess some of this will depend on the CBA too, because right now he's only been in the league 5 years and I believe the current rules state that you have to be tenured 6 years to be a full fledged free agent. That would make him a restricted free agent and the Dolphins could put a tender on him then shop him to try and re-acquire extra picks, or maybe do a player for player trade.
Good point CK. McDaniel, or Odrick for that matter, would be good fits for teams like Pittsburgh, KC and SD, who play the 3-4 and have somewhat struggled at the end position. APrticularly Pittsburgh, who has now lost Aaron Smith two seasons in a row. Pitt doesn;t ussually make trades like that, but it's an interesting thought
