Dj, Cam might have a great year with the Vikings, but that's irrelevant when comparing the two players because he was not going to get much playing time for us. Sapp on the other hand will.
http://www.ffmastermind.com/quickbits.php#207065 "ESPN's John Clayton reports the Minnesota Vikings acquired Miami Dolphins WR Greg Camarillo in a trade for CB Benny Sapp, multiple sources confirmed Wednesday." This trade could send a quiet message that no one may want to hear. It looks like we are satisfied at the WR position, but we are concerned about the CB's. Only time will tell how this works out, but it will be sad not having Camarillo around. He was a very dependable warrior and an asset to our team in every way.
we'll see Raffie, basically its a strait up competition as to who will be more valuable to their team relative to their position..You may think he wouldn't of got a lot of rep's, I disagree in that Dept.... What I think is getting carried away here is some projecting that some 5'9 29 year old corner is gonna be more valuable to our team than a player we have seen perform at a very high level in starting and pressure situation's... Now, if the situation is we have found out that will allen is toast, than I understand the move and iam all good..but once again, were left in the dark to speculate.. If we had some inside info on injury stuff, we could make a more intelligent projection here.
never play poker with these guys huh padre? i had given up on them trading camarillo just about. it made perfect sense to do once hartline emerged last season but this front office made it seem he was a part of our plans. good for them that's some expert poker playing
I kinda saw it coming Adamp, what people have to understand is this is no longer 2008 and we no longer need "steady and dependable but doesn't make plays", we need speed and playmaking ability. As sparano has said "as a young coach coming into this league you need a Greg Camarillo"..meaning after a couple of seasons you need something more from your Wide Receivers. Some people do not wish to hear that, but it's the truth of the matter, dink and dunk, control the clock and hope the Wildcat Works this week is not a valid strategy after the foundation has been built... Pat Turner had best chin check himself, as Greg C was twice the player he is, and those UDFA three amigos, Wallace, Moore and Pruitt are not just going away somewhere, they want what he has..a roster spot..and they are out playing him.
yeah i said he was a darkhorse a couple of weeks ago to be traded or cut when we were talking about who would make our receiver corps. after last season i was sure he was going to be let go but the front office made no indication that he was being shopped and I thought they were going to go with him another year though it made no sense to me. We have a younger faster version of him in Hartline and there is no reason to double up on that kind of possession receiver. Good move by the front office. There was no reason to keep him and we got a good nickel back in return. Also shows that Carroll wont be ready to contribute in the secondary till 2011 which is what I suspected after jacksonville. Too much technique work left and he has to get better at play recognition
More or less, though do not under estimate Mr Carrol, this is more a less of "cannot go into the unknown not knowing" type of hedge your bets move. I've banged this drum since Ted Ginn was traded, Irish/Sparano badly need to find "a" Returner, and not make do with some guys, we need more explosiveness across the board, ST, Offense, what have you. I do feel the offense will be quite good, I also think we need an "X" factor type who makes positive plays and can also create explosive mismatches. God love Greg C, but he more of a magician than a playmaker, he can catch a ball on his ***, he cannot run 50 yds downfield, get open, and make a play.
well when last season ended I thought Camarillo was the most likely to go. When we got Marshall I was certain of it. I thought we would keep Ginn and have a receiving corps of a playmaker go to receiver (Marshall), a possession receiver (Hartline) a slot receiver (Bess) a speed guy (Ginn) and a developmental receiver. Once we got rid of Ginn, it got a bit weird since we were back to having one of the slowest receiving corps in the NFL. Moore seems alright from the little Ive seen of him. Pruitt and Wallace seem a mystery at this stage but they could be developmental projects and Turner seems like another version of Marshall just without the playmaking ability. I think we're going to be picking up a receiver off the waiver wires or maybe trading for one at some point soon. If we want a speed receiver who might be cut look at Todd Watkins from the Raiders. He ran a 4.28 and hasnt done anything for them but had a nice career in BYU. Considering he had to deal with Russell and speed receivers usually take three or four years to emerge, he might be worth a look so long as it doesnt cost anything as for carroll, there probably isnt a bigger cheerleader than me. still considering how much time he missed in college, i think it was too much to expect miracles from him. give him a year and expect him to contribute nexxt year significantly. kinda like chris clemons
Instead of Misi? I would have taken Antonio Brown in the 6th. As well as Jamar Wall in the 6th. But that would have meant staying put in the 1st and 4th rounds. So far Brown has 109 yards and 1 TD in the preseason. As well as 6 returns for 93 yards. Jamar Wall has 1 return for -1 yard. But he also has 9 TKL (led the team in tackles Week 1 of the preseason) and 2 passes defended.
Agree about the Wr corps make up being a head scratcher, I really hope they are not over estimating what Hartline can, and cannot do as the #2 Wr. As for who they should pick up, I've banged the drum for Stefan Logan, but if a Wr, who knows? I thought RGM was the answer but apparently not.
I'm more about play makers than even you are.....as you know. However it's not like Greg C brought nothing to the table. And if this ends up being a move to make room for Turner...... it will blow up in their face. This better be about trying to keep two of the three fighting Turner for that spot. Favre will make good use of Cammy and enjoy the fact he catches EVERYTHING. As I've said before, flashy or not he's money...... you have to be careful getting rid of guys that are money.
Agree, you cannot trade consistency for lesser consistency, if Greg C had to go, Sparano had better have a porsche hidden in the garage.
Greg C was more of a Volvo, solid dependable all of that, but you don't sel the Volvo and then buy a Audi, you upgrade to something that offers more performance.
how is it going to blow up in our face. this is a 4th receiver we're talking about. a possession receiver. these guys are a dime a dozen. he was gritty and reliable but nothing special. next year's draft is loaded with receivers and there are still cuts to come this year. he can be replaced very easily if we have the desire to do so
Now there we disagree, Camarillo was not a dime a dozen type of player as his hands and ability to catch the ball are Elite level skills, 50 targets and no drops? That is rare skill Adamp, the problem is DBess is supposed to do that this season, we need something else.
he was a 4th receiver. a duplicate of hartline. we can get these guys every year. maybe they dont catch 100% but instead 90%. we're not losing out on much and we get a good nickelback in return. i dont see what we're losing here. it seems we gained from my perspective. camarillo would have been valuable if we didnt have hartline. every team needs one receiver like him. the key word is one. you dont need two, three or four of them. one is enough and his name is hartline. we need a speed receiver and a developmental receiver. we certainly have the developmental part covered now lets go find a speed receiver
2008, long 33 2009, long 29 Camarillo is a fine receiver. Just not as great as people are making him out to be
you guys are acting like this was a good move just getting rid of the guy..and no point in this convo do I hear you saying that Benny Sapp is the superior football player..why is that?, because that is what its all about in a strait up trade, right?. Bottome line, they must think that one of their young receivers has taken their game to another level, or they think Will is toast...cause noone is gonna convince me that Sapp is the better football player.
i think sapp is just as good if not better than camarillo and thats if camarillo was our third receiver. as a 4th receiver sapp brings way more value to us. A nickelback is more valuable than a 4th receiver IMO
well we agree there. Turner at best is a 5th recceiver develpmental for another year. I'm hoping they seen enough of Moore that they feel comfortable in him being the 4th receiver. He seems slippery enough that he can gain some yards here and there. I also fully expect us to scour the waiver wires in another week when cuts are made. I wouldnnt be surprised if we have one or two new receivers in the near future
You can't make me... <throws pen out the window> edit...ahha.. you edited it to Chambers... well then... bah
bottom line = need for nickel corner (no sign of a healthy Will Allen) OUTWEIGHED the need for a third receiver (which we already have in Bess).
We will of course disagree, Chambers was marvelously talented, he could not hold Camarillo's jock when it came to catching the ball each time, every time. Why do you suppose BMarsh having a couple of drops is such news? That was the norm in Miami for yrs, what changed?
Chambers wasn't a horrible receiver. Third big play wide receiver, he was golden. Didn't do great as a starter, however he didn't do badly.
You keep arguing player (WR) for player (CB). You lose that debate because Greg Camarillo IS the fourth or fifth receiver. That's fact. It's undeniable. Benny Sapp may or may not play Nickel for this team. If he does play nickel for this team the trade was +dolphins. If he does not play nickel then the trade was equal. This is the point that you will not address. This is the point that you lose the debate. Where does Greg Camarillo play on special teams? Here, let me help you out. Where is Greg Camarillo in this video? http://www.nfl.com/videos/jacksonville-jaguars/09000d5d819edbe5/Jags-block-punt-for-safety I don't see him. You know what I DO see? I see our starting free safety attempting to block. I see him failing. That's great. We'll replace him with somebody else. Who is that? Oh yea, we did give that guy Wallace a try where you see Lex Hilliard in the video. How did that work out for us? How would like to have 1 punt block per game? That is the average right now. So the team is desperate. If the team thought Camarillo could do something to help out, do you not think he would be in there? Do you think they thought Camarillo's skills were so great as the 4th or 5th receiver that they would rather him SIT ON THE BENCH some more while their starting free safety failed miserably? Watch the next game. You may not see Sapp play a down in the secondary. But you can bet your arse you will see him on special teams. It is THE reason for the trade. Camarillo was bench fodder. Sapp plays special teams. The fact that Will Allen is injured is just a bonus toward the trade.
I'm more concerned about who gets Cam's roster spot.....the trade seems fine. We needed help in that area....
antonio bryant from cincinnati? or jerome simpson, quan cosby or dezmon briscoe. they seem to have more than enough receivers battling for that 5th spot in cincy and maybe they part ways with antonio bryant. i think caldwell has the 4th spot
Cam's roster spot has been filled with Sapp, however Randy Thomas was also released so there is room for one more little indian..and then there will be 75.. Patrick Crayton is sticking in my head, my one question is whether or not he can play out on the boundary, Sam Hurd is in that mix as well.
