2010 Florida Marlins Thread

Deadspin just leaked all the Marlins financial documents for 2008 and 2009.

 

And away we go

http://deadspin.com/5619235/florida-marlins-financial-documents/gallery/

 

All it really shows is what has been, assumed: The Marlins management are businessmen first and foremost. Winning is secondary to staying in the black.

That's fine if you run a Starbucks, but not a baseball team. If you look at the number of wins they had per dollars spent, It's outstanding. Just makes you wonder had they spent a little more...

 

Can someone explain to me what that means?

 

It's a shame because the Marlins have a very good front office and baseball operations. Imagine if they had an owner that was willing to spend a little more money to try and keep some of their talent instead of shipping them off when their price tag gets too high. If MLB didn't step in Josh Johnson & Dan Uggla would probably be in a different uniforms right now. It stinks that guys like Mark Cubans of the world are kept out of the league because the other owners feel he's a threat to spend money on the time while they allow the Loria's of the world to step in. Granted for a lot of these owners these teams aren't their main focus of business (for example George Sternbrenner's real money came from building ships) and owning a team is just something of a status for them.

 

For the last time, JJ was going to be a Marlin no matter what. MLB just sped up the process.

 

See my post above yours. It basically means the Marlins made a nice profit, but instead of putting that money into the product on the field, they stuck it in their pockets. Which is fine, except your fans may not be too thrilled to hear it.

Like Ray said, a lot of owners don't own teams to make money off them. They do it because ultimately they are fans like us who want their team to win.

I guarantee you if Jerry Jones was guaranteed to win the Super Bowl but would lose 100 Million in the process, he would do it every season until he was bankrupt.

 

You keep saying that, yet there are numerous articles on the subject back in the off season that contradict what you say. The Marlins didn't want to give Johnson the 4th year and the sides couldn't agree on terms until MLB stepped in.

I posted the links in this thread in June (last post on the page)

http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=45329&page=15

You may have been confedent that Johnson (and Uggla) would have stayed with the Marlins but the fact is there was nothing to suggest either guy was going to stay until MLB started in. While it was very well possible that Johnson may have eventually signed on to stay with Florida, it's funny that they hadn't talked about a contract since November of 2009 and when the MLB went public and ripped them, they suddenly had an agreement 3 days later that seems a little suspect no? You have to admit that without MLB's involvement it could have been possible that Florida would have shipped him (and Uggla out of town) like they have done to numerous players in the past.

 

Einhorn is 100% on the money there.

 

Laces out my friend, laces out.

 

I honestly agree that they were going to sign him. Ashraf is right. They were going to lock him up no matter what through the stadium opening.

I think you may have a point with Uggla but they were absolutely going to lock up their best position player and pitcher and say "See? Look everyone! Were committed to winning!"

 

It is definitely possible they were going to lock up Johnson but given the team's track record isn't it possible Johnson could have been dealt by now (or even possibly this winter) if they hadn't come to an agreement? I do think someone can make an argument that if MLB didn't rip the team a Johnson deal might not have been made yet and his future with the team could have been in question, especially if you were to assume Johnson would still put up the numbers he has now without a contract he could have commanded a higher dollar figure or in arbitration.

 

I think it was getting done regardless to be honest. They were only apart in years, every thing else written suggested that they were in agreement on all other issues.

Like I said, they were always going to bring Hanley and JJ into 2012. If this team is a legit contender in the new stadium, they may be able to piggy back onto the Miami Heat (and to a lesser extent, the dolphins) upswing and legitimize it's place as a real sports franchise in South Florida. That's not possible if they deal their All-Star pitcher the year before.

That agreement is spurring the Uggla-Nolasco extention talks, that I'm sure of. But I firmly believe JJ was always going to get signed last winter.

 

The real dissapointing thing in the reprots is that it is now clear that they could've kept Cabrera and still made a tidy profit.

Read Cote's column today, it's eye opening.

If Cabrera were on this team we would be in the playoffs.

 

Yeah, I'm done with the Marlins.

 

.

Miggy will forever be a black stain for the Marlins. As a Braves fan, I can honestly say that a 3-4-5-6 consisting of Miggy, Hanley, Uggla and Stanton would make me **** my pants.

Forget about a 3B, thats already the best power infield in the game.

 

ya....im leaning towards being a braves fan again.....to be honest. until we get a new FO



































**** you im not serious. but its bull****

 

Local highschool baseball man. It's where you wanna be. Seriously, it's fun; get in on it. You gotta be there, bro.

 

i dont have the time......nor do i care for 17 yr olds playing baseball........cant get into it

 

At least you'll know they spend more on personnel than the Marlins do.

 

double probably.

 

Done with Bozo the Art Clown and Igor Samson, sure. Done with the Marlins? Nah, not with you on that.

Is anyone really surprised that Bozo the Art Clown has been pocketing millions of dollars?

 

Not done with the Marlins in that sense. Done with the way they do business.

So you fire your manager mid season because he wasn't making chicken salad out of the chicken **** you gave him. You made it a point that you had playoff expectations for the team and Freddi wasn't cutting it. Now, after a 4-game winstreak, you just flat out gift wrap one of our more consistent outfielders.

Looks like Loria saved some art-money to spend on some **** painting.

For at least the rest of this year, **** them. I won't be watching; was planning to attend another game this year, that ain't happening.

Hey, Jeffry, if you can save money on baseball, so can we. *******.

 

I'm just going to go ahead and take credit for being ahead of the thread curve on this topic.

 

I've adopted this philosophy too. since ross went to the giants, i haven't even watched a game. i think they owe the fans at least the illusion that management wants to win. i mean, if they don't care about the team, then why should I? it's shameful the way this organization does business.

 

I feel like we just rehash topics. At the time when we traded Miggy, Miller and Maybin were two of the highest regarded prospects. It was actually a good trade then but now not so much. Think about it thoughJ we dropped Willis and avoided having him on the roster when he imploded and at the time Miguel was eating himself out of baseball. Does nobody remember how he had to go from left to third because he gained too much weight and was on his way to first because of the same problem. Remember him showing up hung over for Detroits big game last year? It`s the birth of his daughter that really refocused him. Had Miller panned out that would have been huge having a tall dominant lefty on the rotation. and if he can repeat his last start that may still be a possibility.

As far as Cody. I love Cody but who cares at this point. We`re 62-61 and can barely get above ,500. If they dumped him while we were say 2 games back from the playoffs I`d be more upset. Like I said last time it saves money and gives Maybin 1 more chance to prove he is worth it.

 

Also regarding Cabrera, it is absolutely possible that the Marlins FO was well aware of his drinking problems and that could have been another reason to trade him from the ones you mentioned. Yeah the trade looks bad now because Maybin and Miller have been busts but at the time it was considered a very very good haul.

I agree with you on Cody Ross too. It's not like the team was knocking on the door at a playoff spot. You have to assume they tried to trade him at the deadline but they either didn't like any packages they were being offered or no one really wanted him. He was most likely going to be non-tendered this off season so it's basically cutting bait and saving a little over a million dollars, which could now be allocated to signing some international prospects or sign a FA in the off season (or to help fund Loria's new pool).

 

The latter. Definitely the latter. A pool in the shape of double dollar signs, no less.

 

Even if it was considered a good haul at the time, it's still a bad move then and now. In the end, chances were extremely slim they were going to get even equal value to his worth from a talent perspective.

However, the main reason it was a bad trade IMO isn't because of who they got (that helps), but their decision to trade him in the first place.

I also don't think the drinking factored in much. Or at least it shouldn't have. Just my opinion though.

 

What if that extra 1.1 million goes to getting Dan signed long term? Would we still be complaining?

 

Money isn't the problem there. Uggla and the front office are on the same page in terms of money. The holdup is the length of the deal.

 

With a Tiki Bar.

Well trading Cabrera and Willis was pretty much a money issue, like it usually always is with Florida. Would you have just let Cabrera walk as a FA when his contract was up instead (assuming either the Marlins couldn't afford him or he would never sign a long term contract with them)?

Trading a player because of a drinking or drug problem happens more than you think. I know of at least 4 players for sure on just one particular team in the past 10 years that have been traded, released or simply not resigned due to those types of problems as well as a few other players that I heard whispers about too. A lot of the time none of this stuff is ever reported because no one but the team knows about. If Cabrera never got arrested last year no one would have ever thought he had a problem. But trust me that off the field stuff usually affects the way (at least some/smart) front offices view a player.

Exactly. I don't think as many people would be complaining right now if the financial reports were leaked yesterday. What if the Marlins dumped Ross due the draft deadline and used that 1.1 million to sign a few more picks?

 

^ That was my point, it was a money issue first and foremost, which is stupid, because if you were ever going to sign a guy long-term, Miggy would've been it. I'm not complaining though.

And out of curiosity, would any of those guys with drinking/drug problems you eluded happen to be of the caliber of a Miguel Cabrera? I know Josh Hamilton was definitely one of those (maybe not on the team you're talking about), but his problems were enough that any team in MLB would have to have gotten rid of him.

 

I think Hamilton is an extreme case and obviously it was very public, I know of at least two teams that pretty much said privately they'd never sign him out of fear of a relapse and they didn't like the idea that the guy has a babysitter with him 24/7 to keep him on the wagon.

Anyway the guys I'm talking about are/were never as good as Cabrera but they are all All Star type players (although one of the players put up numbers pretty similar to Cabrera until he left the team and was never the same because that team babysat him and kept him from staying out late). I'm not talking about a random back up infielder, 4th OFer or 12th guy in the pen types.

Also I know there are some teams out there that worry about players like Zack Greinke who need to take meds due to his anxiety/depression disorder. Of course there are countless guys that have been dumped due to domenstic issues too.

 

ESPN:

 

He should hold out for the rest of the year.

 

5 years? does he know he's already 30?

 

I honestly wouldn't mind trading Uggla if it meant acquiring a legit number 2 starter.

 

More on the leaked report:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-marlinsfinancials082410

Pretty powerful stuff. In the wake of this, I expect David Samson to be fired, because I know he's too much of a douche-weasel to ever resign. Pocketing profits and screwing your fans is one thing, but TO LIE about it so you don't have to pay for a new stadium that most people down here didn't even want is completely different.