2010 Florida Marlins Thread

No to Skipworth and Torres.

C-??
1B Gaby Sanchez
2B Coghlan
SS Hanley
3B Dominguez
LF Morrison
CF Maybin
RF Stanton

 

What "Bozo the Art Clown" wanted was to win, like everyone. He set expectations that high because he thought we had the team to make it to the playoffs. Obviously, that isn't the case. And he see's that. He's not going to go high and trade everyone to win now. I don't know what makes you think that.

And even if we wanted to win now, you accomplish NOTHING by trading away Hanley. That idea is so bad I can't believe it's been brought up.

 

Not very good.

1B will be Gaby Sanchez and LF will be Morrisson. SS will be Hanley.

 

No to Skipworth? What??

 

He's been awful up until this year and has been below average this year, even though he's repeating in a hitters paradise. The biggest issue is his massive strikeout rate. It's only going to get worse as climbs the ladder.

 

What evidence has Bozo the Art Clown given you lately to make you think he's capable of that sort of rational thought? For example, you don't fire your manager in mid-season unless you think you can get a better guy immediately, and unless you think it will lead to more wins.

I don't know what makes you think he's making correct, informed decisions.

Like I said, you improve multiple positions by sacrificing talent at one. How many games have the Rams won by holding on to super-talented Steven Jackson? How many championships did the Cowboys win by trading Herschel Walker? That's where I'm coming from.

As for the 2012 lineup speculation, I'm with Mainge. His lineup seems pretty likely to me. Coghlan at 2B will make us forget about the then-departed Uggla.

 

Josh Johnson is a beast. Wish the Cubs had him.

 

Can Coghlan play 2B? The Braves tried a similar thing with Kelly Johnson. He was an INF his whole time in the minors, they brought him up as a LF because the Braves had Marcus Giles at 2B, then he was moved to 2B after Giles left and proceeded to boot easy chances and lose us games because of his glove.

 

Yeah Coghlan came up through the minors as a 2B and it's been long speculated that if Uggla ever got traded Coghlan would simply slide back to 2B possibly opening up LF for Logan Morrison (who started to play a little OF in the minors).

 

How about we give the 19 year old, # 6 overall pick a chance?

 

He fired Fredi because Fredi wasn't very good at his job.

Can you explain to me how he's making bad decisions, though? I mean, you want to kill him because he said we want to be playoff contenders. And now you think he's going to trade Hanley to try and reach that goal. Think about that.

But you're not guaranteeing improvement. You're taking a HUGE risk by trading one of the best players in the game.

 

20 year old*

He has 3 more years to prove himself. I'm not exactly sure what you want from me. This is his 3rd professional season and he's shown next to nothing. He strikes out in 35% percent of his at-bats in Low-A. I bet there are only a handful of regulars in the MLB that have that k-rate. He can't hit lefties and is suppose to be abysmal with the glove.

It's awesome that he got paid but the fact remains that the only thing he's got going for him is that he was the #6 pick two years ago.

 

Fredi wasn't the best manager, but he wasn't the worst, either. I've knocked Fredi plenty of times on this site, but if his performance was the reason for his dismissal, then it makes no sense to dump him in the middle of the season as opposed to the previous offseason, when Bozo the Art Clown wanted to make the move.

It's incompetent management by an incompetent owner.

I think you need to go back and re-read some of my posts on this topic, because you're mistaking my presentation of essentially a what-if scenario as a serious prediction of what the team will do.

I've said at least twice that I acknowledge that Hanley won't be traded. Nowhere did I say that I want him to be traded, either. I've said that if Bozo the Art Clown is still clinging to his delusions of playoff adequacy, and was serious about doing everything possible to make the playoffs this year, then a blockbuster trade is one way to go about it.

My personal opinion as to what the team should do? Forget that the playoffs exist and build towards fielding a contender in 2012. But even then, Bozo the Art Clown stabs at me and thee, because David Samson has said that the team might not open the payroll spigot until they get consistently high attendance figures for about two years in the new ballpark. Meaning, we might not see a really good team until 2014 or 2015, and even then it's dependent on people turning out in droves to see a middle of the road baseball team in the interim.

Do you feel the despair yet?

What exactly is at risk, though? Not making the playoffs? We've never made the playoffs with Hanley Ramirez in a Marlins uniform, so I'm not sure what the problem is there.

 

If Loria trades away a top 3(2?) position player away right before the new stadium opens, you can kiss the Marlins good bye.

 

You destroy the last bit of good will this ownership group salvaged by keeping baseball in South Florida. No one will go to the new stadium to see a Hanley-less Marlins. You combine stadium debt with money we still owe to the MLB and that's it. The team will fold.

 

Josh Johnson. Chris Coghlan. Mike Stanton. Hopefully Anibal Sanchez and Ricky Nolasco. Hopefully Cameron Maybin, too.

The cupboard isn't bare, it's just really immature.

Here's where we disagree: I think it's entirely possible. Hanley is a major talent with a contract that the big market teams would consider bargain basement. It's absolutely possible to put together a deal that would bring us solid, MLB-proven players that would play immediately, not in three years.

Hell, when Hanleygate was still raging, we got something like five calls the first day asking if Hanley was available in trade. That's leverage.

And again: this is all theoretical because Hanley isn't getting traded.

There really isn't any goodwill, though. No one respects the Marlins ownership and front office right now. Beyond Larry Beinfest and Michael Hill, we got nuthin'. And you can bet Bud Selig wouldn't lose any sleep if baseball died in South Florida. He's certainly done his part to smother it in the cradle by saddling us with You Know Who.

 

I read that he should be slightly above average with the glove. That was when he was drafted, though.

He is striking out a lot, but we need to be patient with him. He's young.

 

Bottom line, Fredi wasn't getting the job done. And we needed a major change to save the season.

What I'm asking is, what makes you think he hasn't acknowledged the fact that this season is over? I mean, he probably still has hope as most fans do, and might want to save this season with a trade. But in now way is thinking about jeopardizing the future for now. I don't know how you came to that conclusion about him.

The risk is trading one of the best players in the game for sh!t. That's the risk. And no, we haven't made the playoffs with him, but look at the numbers. He's the least of our problems.

 

Um, Why would he do that?

 

Gotta disagree with you here man. You don't fire a manger mid-season to try and save things, you fire a manager mid-season because you're throwing in the towel. Teams RARELY make the playoffs after firing their manager during the season.

The Marlins won a World Series doing it, and I know the Rockies did it, and the Brewers (even though the Brewers were already in contention when they fired Ned Yost, which is still a head scratcher to this day) but the Marlins odds of doing it this season were so low there was really only one reason Fredi was let go: Loria was sick of him.

It kinda reminds me of an old quote from (former) Braves owner Ted Turner after he fired Bobby Cox in the 80's when he said, "I don't know who we need as a Manager. Maybe somebody like Bobby Cox."

Fredi, IMO, was fired because the Marlins just aren't very good.

 

By this logic, pitchers should be the lowest-paid players in the game.

This isn't football. The amount of times a player touches the ball has no bearing on how important or influential they are on the team. An ace pitcher who comes out only once every five days is worth a hell of a lot more than, say, a mid-order batter who plays every night.

The season isn't saved. It's over with. We're 10 games back from the division and in 7th place in the Wild Card race. We'd need every team ahead of us to not only collapse, but for this roster to put together several long, consecutive winning streaks. To date, they have not shown that kind of ability.

I'll allow for the possibility that the team goes on a small run and maybe makes things interesting in the division, but we're not winning the division title, and we're not getting the Wild Card.

Firing Fredi in an attempt to spark the team. If Bozo the Art Clown had resigned himself to the fact that the season is done, then Fredi hangs around until the end of the season, because what good is it to hire an interim manager halfway through a losing season? What does it get you? Nothing. Edwin Rodriguez is going back to AAA at the end of the season.

 

I'm agreeing with you.

 

@HardKoreXXX- I guess you're right. At the time it was hard to tell because they wanted to hire Bobby Valentine. It seemed like they were trying to spark the team.

@ Desides- At the time of the Fredi firing, the season wasn't over. And if you remember, we tried to hire Bobby Valetine instead of settling on Edwin. In the end things fell apart and we promoted Edwin.

@Mainge- Sorry, lol.

 

And we could have hired Bobby Valentine in the previous offseason. But Bozo the Art Clown stuck with Fredi and then fired him.

Our ownership is a black hole.

 

I just now saw this. From the Herald, an article on George Steinbrenner and Harvey Greene:

2003 just got retroactively even sweeter.

 

You can build around a core of pitchers as the focus of the team. Which is what Larry Beinfest has been trying to do for years. The new ballpark is a pitcher's park, not a batter's park.

 

I agree that the rotation isn't great right now, but Beinfest is trying to build the team around pitching, not offense.


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Josh Johnson will be on the Dan LeBatard Show tomorrow. Also, Tim Kurkjian says that JJ is the best pitcher in all of MLB.

 

99% of the time when a statement like that is made, it refers to current performance, not careers. I mean, Josh Beckett has had a better career than Josh Johnson, but I'd take Johnson over Beckett right now.

Man, imagine the sort of team we'd have if Bozo the Art Clown didn't keep trading players away before arbitration.

 

JJ will be on LeBatard at 3:15 EST.

 

He has very quietly put up 2 very good years in the minors, though BP left him out of our top-30. I think he's likely a back end starter or pen arm.

 

"donnie bleeping murhpy!!!!!" what a great game and a great call

 

That was one hell of a comeback. Uggla disappointed in his 9th inning AB though. You'd expect at least a good line drive from him in that situation.

I'd say it's disappointing how few people were at the stadium to watch that game, but at the same time, it means less revenue for Bozo the Art Clown. Maybe he'll sell the team! (But then I realize that he's been stealing money through revenue sharing for years, so low attendance doesn't faze his pocketbook. Damn.)