2010 Florida Marlins Thread

Now that LeBron is coming to Miami, can he pitch for the Marlins?

 

Not if you ask the folks on www.marlinsbaseball.com . They give all the credit to Loria for 2003, convienently forgetting that most of that roster (actually most of the important parts) were put together by Dombrowski and (then owner) John Henry. There is one guy on that board (2003 Marlins) who does nothing but schlurp anyone associated with the Marlins management, and makes excuse after exuse for their failures. The best and funniest part of his schtick is when he tries to justify that the owner isn't pocketing money every year but is just breaking even - $ 35 million payroll - $ 80 million in revenue sharing & national TV money - yet he claims they are breaking even. I wish he would answer this - if the Marlins are putting that much money into their scouting why is it that Beinfest whiffs so often on his draft picks & trades ? (The last 2 trades have been dreadful)

 

And last night he was Bozo the Art Clown's sidekick. Taking the Hopper out and putting in Wood was the death knell for last nights debacle. E-Rod needs to go !

 

This what one of the more delusional ones said on that Marlins board.....

Has that whacko seen the defense this team plays ? Has he seen the lack of a bullpen ? The shaky starting rotation ? The streakiness of the hitters ?

They are closer to the Royals and than to the Yankees and a championship.

 

I'm amazed that there's actually someone out there who'll defend Marlins ownership. Wow.

 

No one is defending ownership. They defend Beinfest, who is one of the best GMs in baseball.

 

He said we're close to being a great team, and we are. This team has a LOT of potential in it's young players. Couple that with an increased payroll when the new stadium opens, and we will do damage.

 

I just don't see it. The last two trades are part of the reason this team this year is below .500. He got NOTHING for trading Miguel Cabrerra. You cannot trade a future league MVP and get zero for him. You might have just let him walk, and then get compensatory 1st round picks for him. You would have done better, especially if you trust Beinfest to draft.

Beinfest's drafting record is not exactly stellar either. He takes Matt Dominguez instead of Jason Heyward, he took Jeremy Herminda instead of Cole Hammels, and of course the drafting of drug addict Jason Allison. DISASTER !

So please tell me, when you have a team that is predicated on low payroll, you HAVE to draft extraordiarily well and make trades that work out for you. Lately Beinfest has been horrible on both fronts.

 

Hindsight is 20/20.

At the time of the Cabrera deal both Andrew Miller and Cam Maybin were very highly regarded prospects. They didn't pan out as their talent suggested, it happens, but I really don't remember anyone (experts, scouts etc) killing Florida for that deal. And who's to say that the picks Florida would have received would have panned out, they could have been busts too. Baseball is a hard sport to play and also to forecast development of players.

The baseball draft is such a crapshoot that every team has a 'I wish I picked Player X instead of Player Y' every year. Hell Pujols went 16 rounds before someone picked him. There are tons of stories like that, plus you're assuming that Heyward would have signed with Florida, he could have went to college like he was telling teams might be possible if they drafted him. It's not like Dominguez is/was a bum, the kid can play, he's just hasn't developed into the player a Heyward has. Like I said if you look back in every draft every team could look back and say why did I pick him instead of him.

 

Here's to hoping the Home Run Derby doesn't screw with Hanley's HR swing.

 

has JJ been announced the starter for the AS game yet?

 

Nope, Jimenez is the starter. Johnson deserved it for sure though but Charlie Manuel must love that win total Jimenez has.

 

JJ not starting is a total joke.

 

Maybe it's just me but I kinda want JJ to get this rest. Screw Charlie Manuel.

 

It's not just you, I'd rather the guys on the team I root for don't get into a meaningless game and risk potential injury, especially the pitchers. Yeah it was great seeing Pedro Martinez in 1999 dominate the NL striking out 5 out of the 6 batters he faced but it wasn't worth seeing him sit on the DL later in the year because of it.

 

hoping for miguel / hanley final tonight

 

Damn, he didn't win. At least he got to the final round and passed Miggy.

 

It might not seem so meaningless if your favorite team made it to the world series and didn't get home field advantage. NL teams have overcome and won the series anyway but I'm sure it's nice to have it. Not something AL fans have had to deal with. Personally I'd like to see the NL win for once. Not at the expense of say a Martin Prado or Tim Hudson injury BUT, I don't mind taking the chance if it helps. They probably won't be playing a full game anyway. For a dominant home team like Atlanta starting the world series at home if they made it could be huge. If they really need the rest they'll decline to play, like many players have.

 

Eh, I'd still rather my team's players sit out the game to avoid risk of injuries even if the game 'matters'. There are still plenty of other guys that could play on the team that could help them win and get that home field advantage.

 

Good speculation on 790 that the next 10 games determine the rest of our season and whether we sell at the trade deadline. I agree. Josh Friedman is decent with baseball speculation.

 

This x100.

That was value equivelant to Longoria and Price.

 

Honestly, I just want to sell. Give me some hope for the future and get rid of this team. It hasn't been working for 4 years, so it's never going to work.

 

Pretty much.

Coghlan is back to sucking.

 

He'll be back. He's just struggling.

 

3 out of 4 months of 'struggling'

 

Rookie of the f*cking year. Yes, struggling. Or a slump I should say. A sophomore slump.

 

Angel Berroa was a ROTY too. Not saying he's Angel Berroa but the facts remains that he's been good in half of his time as a big leaguer and abysmal in the other half. This year, he's striking out way more than he ever has and his walks have completely dropped off.

I'm a teensie weensie bit concerned.

 

His Rookie year was no where near Coghlan's rookie year. After looking at his stats, I don't see how he won ROY.

Don't be concerned. Sophomore slumps happen a lot. He'll be fine. His walks haven't completely dropped off. His BB% is around league average.

 

Coghlan will be fine. Sophomore slumps happen.

As far as trades go, I'm honestly open to the possibility of trading Hanley, especially if we can get good bullpen help and a boost to our defense in the process. And by that, I mean players who belong in the majors, not a mishmash of AAA players who might one day be ready to play in the bigs. If the plan is still to make a playoff push this year, then we need immediate returns, not more prospects.

I swear, sometimes this organization feels like it's trying to innovate the art of AAAA baseball, not compete in the major league.

 

I can't believe you just said you're fine with trading Hanley Ramirez.

 

Not sure what's so unbelievable about it. He would command a lot in a deal, his contract is very affordable for any team that would want him, and we're not exactly winning a whole lot with him around. At this point I have no problem trading him if it means real and serious improvement to the parts of this team that have chronically struggled.

On the flip side, I don't want to trade Josh Johnson. I value what he brings to the table more than Hanley. JJ would have a hell of a lot more wins if the rest of the team came through for him.

But both are reportedly off the table, so my position on Hanley is moot. I do seriously think Dan Uggla is gone, though.

 

No, you never trade a talent for Hanley to build your team up. He's a top 10 player. You build your team around him. He isn't the problem, and trading him solves nothing.

Keep JJ, Hanley, Sanchez, Coghlan, and Stanton. They are our future. Trading any one of these players sets us back.

 

Coghlan I'm not sold on.

 

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to trade Hanley, but if another club offers a package of players that immediately mends a lot of our problems, I'd probably pull the trigger on that deal.

Hanley and Cantu (who's also likely to be gone before the trading deadline, IMO) for two good relievers, a glove, a bat, and some sort of high-end prospect would be awfully tempting to me. You could cover for the absence of Hanley's production in the short term and make up for it in the long term.

But I understand that with the new ballpark under construction, the team probably wants to have a Hispanic as the face of the franchise to help draw attendance from Little Havana and other Hispanics in Dade. They're not going to deal Hanley.

 

It's not even about the Hispanic audience. Hanley Ramirez plays a position that doesn't offer much offense. He's easily the best SS in baseball. Trading him for whatever package does not make us better.

And we don't even need bullpen help anymore. What we need is better defense and a more consistent offense. And a better bench.

 

We need help especially in the bullpen. A competent bullpen helps mask our deficiencies on defense and can keep us in games on the nights when our offense struggles. In lieu of bullpen help, then I'd look at defensive help, and in lieu of that, then offensive help. If we can't stop other teams we might as well try to out-score them, though that philosophy hasn't worked out too well, which is why we're having this discussion in the first place.

And don't dismiss the Hispanic factor. I would bet anything that if the front office is looking at an acquisition where the players are roughly equivalent in talent, but one is Hispanic, they do everything in their power to bring in the Hispanic. They've made a big deal about wanting to appeal to the Hispanic community to increase attendance. At this point, Hanley could moon Bozo the Art Clown the way he mooned the beat writers and he wouldn't be traded.

 

Our bullpen has been more than good the past month. Veras, Hensley, Nunez, Sanches, Badenhop, Tankeresly, and Marinez is not as bad as you make is sound. It's pretty good, actually.

And why do you make it seem like we HAVE to win now? We don't have to put a winning product out on the field now. We have to have a competetive and winning ball club in 2012, meaning building this team this season and next season.

I'm sorry, but trading Ramirez is just plain stupid. You don't trade him for bullpen help because we have a plethora of talented young arms in our minor league system. And you don't trade him for prospects because it's took risky to trade away a TOP 5 talent for top prospects, like we did with Cabrera. You trade Uggla, Cantu, Ross, Robertson, maybe Nolasco, maybe Nunez and Hensley. But you HAVE to keep Hanley. He's too good to just trade away because you feel he can bring back a few good bullpen arms and a top prospect because you want to win now.

 

I'm not the one who put the "win now" expectation out there: Bozo the Art Clown did.

So when I talk about winning now, that's because the front office entered the season with that mentality. They thought they would take the next step and make the playoffs. While they seem to be demoralized lately, and are probably going to sell at the trade deadline, the fact remains that the owner is completely insane and might demand the pursuit of moves to help win now.

We the fans have our eye on 2012. Bozo the Art Clown is looking at 2010.

 

Really bored, so what you think 2013 starting lineup:

C-Kyle Skipworth
1B-Logan Morrison
2B-Chris Coghlan
SS-Jose Torres
3B-Matt Dominquez
LF-Hanley Ramirez
CF-Cameron Maybin
RF-Mike Stanton