Ill-advised, overkill, and short-sighted are indeed ways to say its a mistake. So lets be clear. I cant say it enough, regardless if you want to gloss over it.....holding onto prospects and not chasing a given FA is only 1 strategy or approach and Cashman has stated time and again, if the timing was right, and if he felt it doesnt take away from Yanks (regardless if it IMPROVES them .00001%) but in contrast it keeps an opposing organization from positioning themselves to improve, he would trade prospects for FA. This is one of those instances in his mind. Its WIN/WIN he can roll the dice and stay pat, or he can make the trade and feel like he improves his chances by NOT-improving the chances of teams that would be roadblocks. Nothing to really debate here....its win/win either way for Cashman.
A source tells Buster Olney that the Yankees expect a resolution regarding Cliff Lee "before the game" on Friday. "There has to be an answer before the game," says the source. According to Olney, the Yankees told the Mariners that their current offer is their last and best offer for the left-hander. Also, there has been no talks of opening a negotiating window on a contract extension for Lee. It's a risk to let him hit the open market after the season, but the Yankees would likely have the upper hand to re-sign him, anyway. thank God it isnt until 10 tonight.....nice!! all day to work oon it....git er dun Cash...
Good, I have Hughes on my Fantasy Team, and the thought of going up vs Lee again is a concern...trade and sit him and hopefully Hughes gets easier matchup.
Again I never said that, that wasn't me that was Patsy. All I asked is if 3 months of Cliff Lee is worth giving up 6 years of Montero plus others when the Yankees already have an excellent chance of winning this year anyway. That's not saying it's a mistake, it's called analyzing the situation and asking legit questions. Everything I asked were fair questions, that I'm sure even the Yankee FO asked themselves too.
Fair enough, I thought you were agreeing with him and that mindset. I am fine with acquiring Lee and much as not acquiring him....I see it as the same thing if as Cashman sees it "increasing the chances at their Highest Possible Level to secure #28"..(since its never going to be 100% until the final out - upticking 99.999% to 99.9999% is worth the price of a PROSPECT or two - it just is) if so, a Montero is worth the price to uptick the %. I would run a business that way when it comes to achieving the #1 goal for two big reasons. 1) I love increasing my odds 2) I am confident my decisions today to increase odds will have no impact to prevent me to make future moves to increase future odds. Win/Win!
I find it amazing that anyone could rationalize this move as anything other than short-sighted. Seriously? Someone explain this to me. And the generic "well, the 27 championships tell me..." response isn't convincing me otherwise.
If you havent got it yet....you wont! How would you attempt to prove that its short-sighted exactly? Wait 5 years and look back?
According to Ken Davidoff of Newsday, the Mariners have told many interested teams that they are "out of the Cliff Lee sweepstakes." The Reds, Twins, Mets, Rangers and Cardinals, among others, have also shown interest in Lee, but it now appears that they will have to find an upgrade elsewhere. Davidoff has also heard that there was a "snag" between the Yanks and M's for Lee, but all indications point to it getting done.
A source tells Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com that the odds of Javier Vazquez being traded to the Phillies for Jayson Werth is a "50 to 1 shot." The same source also describes the Rays as a longshot for Werth. If the Phillies trade the soon-to-be free agent, they will seek an impact player who they can control beyond the 2010 season. As much as the Phillies want pitching, Vazquez will be a free agent after the season, as well. As for the Yankees, they could choose to sit on Vazquez right up until the deadline, possibly moving Phil Hughes to the bullpen until they are able to find the deal they want.
dont worry, you'll only have to hear it for another 4 months. We'll be changing it to 28 championships then
Look as Yanks Fans we know we WONT WIN EVERY YEAR....we have lived with the bad decisions of the mid to late 60's, and bad Mgmt by the likes of CBS...we have watched what it took for Streinbrenner regime and mindset to use FA to its advantage in mid 70s ending a decade plus of not having a Championship season. Then we all watched as the focus left the field (and the Boss was more worried about dirt on the Dave Winfields of the world) than helping Donnie Baseball get to the post-season let alone win a WS. I thank my lucky stars everday for what Gene Michaels started and what Cashman continues....the run starting with the likes of Andy, Mo, Sado and Jeet and the mix of FA (Wettland, Boggs, Key, etc) was sweet...but come on, not every move works, not every signing works...but we still keep trying to always find the right one....we just came off 8 years of Giambi, Mussina plus type moves that didnt pan out (personally I think Mattingly as Coach was a curse) but right now we re-grouped and are in position for back-to-back Championships. No one concerns themselves with moves that may not pan out...we only focus on if it works. When it doesnt, oh well...when it does (and only time will tell) great - thats the right move. Otherwise, the next year is the NEW Year to win the next one.
For whatever it's worth the guys at BA and BP love this deal for Seattle's side and don't really understand why the Yankees are making this deal, since they just love Montero's bat. The guys are Fangraphs say it gives the Yankees 2 more wins in the regular season with an upgrade of Lee over Vazquez or Hughes.
Those years must have really hurt/bothered you when you were ages what 1-4ish? Sorry I had too, just a friendly jab (not a knock out punch). It would be like me complaining about the 1986 World Series when I wasn't even 3 years old yet.
Watching the Chris Chambliss HR on my bedroom 10" Black/White in '76 to send them to their first WS since '64 as my family educated me on the recent bleak history of Yanks from 64 onward did more than enough to fill my void. Winning it in '77 as first since '62 started this run for my life. The Steinbrenner era and run is my era and run! Kind of like if you werent around for the '71,'72,'73 Dolphins run, you still can appreciate what that FO and on field product has gone through since then to get close but not secure their 3rd Championship (even though we have been to 5 SB)...our 6th appearance will happen soon and our 3rd Title will be secured!
It's a good article and I agree with it. He was saying almost exactly what I was saying earlier in thsi thread about the pros and cons of the deal.
NY haters thats all....2 more wins a year?? who the eff cares....I care about 2 more championships....
me too. i started watching the yanks when they were playing in shea stadium during the upgrade (which is what they should have done here instead of moving the stadium) i can still remember watching chambliss blast that HR. One of the greatest days of my life. the 80s were a crime. mattingly deserved a championship. the only decade in history where the yankees failed to bring home the trophy. dark days indeed. i think we had the worst infield ever assembled for a little bit when we had Len Sakata at 2nd, bobby meacham at ss and dale berra at 3rd. i remember the low point being berra and meacham both getting tagged out at home plate one after the other by carlton fisk. thank god those days are behind us. cant even imagine going a full decade without winning some rings anymore.
Born in 76, was sucking on boob probably in 78....so up until 96, I saw some very very bad Yankee teams, and Red Sox teams too.... With baseball I am selfish, I want it to be the Sox and Yanks in the ALCS every year, is there any other way really?? The WS doesnt move me the way it used to, unless we play the Sox to get there....IDK I'm wacked I suppose..
personally i think they should change the rules and just have the yankees play in their own division as a kind of barnstorming team. move all the other AL teams to the NL and have them compete to see who plays the yanks in the world series every year. I mean we have been in close to 40% of all the world series anyway. its demeaning to have to soil our cleats playing such peasants every year
They run numbers between Lee/Vazquez/Hughes to come up with that. The differece between 15 starts of Lee compared to 15 of either Hughes or Vazquez is 2 more wins, it has nothing to do with what teams they like/dislike.
And it's this thinking that is the reason why people hate Yankee fans who think that should just be handed everything because the team has been successful in the past. The Yankees earned those 27 championships nothing was handed to them. I only hope that this post was tongue in cheek because you can't honestly think this way.
If they want to ease up on Hughes for the balance of this season and slide him to pen (which frankly has been SHAKY) and keep Vazq as #5...so be it. Vazq is gone following this season IMO (even if Andy hangs them up too)....Hughes will be 200+ innings starter in 2011 and beyond so if this deepens the 2010 pen that's cool. Moving Vazq for bat is also fine.....options....lots of options.
as a former bleacher creature when sitting in the bleachers was crazier than being in a mosh pit at a bad brains concert i can only say thank you we have spent 90 years building up the hatred for the yankees and i would hate to see all those years wasted. i am simply here to continue the proud tradition of being the most arrogant fans in the world for the greatest, not baseball team, but greatest sports franchise the world has ever seen. there was a time the montreal canadiens were close but we have been pulling away from them for some time now. its a shame the celtics cant pull of a three championship run. thats a class franchise. i think they cursed themselves when they tore down the old stadium. anyway since finyyanks and bigdogshunt are playing the role of ambassodors of goodwill i feel it is up to me to be that arrogant annoying yankee fan. admit it. you know you love it whats a yankee board without at least one loudmouth
I hope they don't mess with Hughes. Just get rid of Vazquez and keep him in the rotation. Let him pitch out of the pen in the playoffs if need be.
Chill Finkle he is joking, sometimes we let Prez out of his cage, and he goes crazy, and drools.....down PREZ down...we have company!!! IMO....I dont want to see Hughes in the bullpen, enough of the in and out of the pen, plus he has earned his keep to stay in the rotation...now as you said options.. 1) 6 man rotation, which could work, CC, Lee, and Hughes could use the extra day off, especially for Lee, and CC, Hughes it is more of a monitioring the innings pitched thing... 2) Trade for a bat, as they need it more than pitching, however pitching wins you the championship..this should be easy, Vaz is hot right now, and is liked by the NL, something should get done...he is only owed 5-6 million.. Lee is obviously Andy's replacement if he decides to leave...I hope he stays, he has it still, and if they win and Lee signs on, I think he makes a run at another title....
Sure, love those options as well.....I could see Andy staying for 2011 season maximum......6man is interesting approach, but come playoff time, who is the big 3 or 4 max to rotate...2 to the pen would set that up nicely as well. (Come playoff time, Vazq on the bump will scare the beejesuss out of me) Does Cashman trade for and sign Lee to extension? does he let Lee hit FA and get draft picks back from him as comp??
dude I was there the day they stop serving alcohol in the bleachers, we all held up a Zimmer cut out that said, "Wheres my beer?" I have bought and smoked pot in there, smuggled numerous pints of grain, rum, vodka, peed, puked, and generally got wasted....seriously where else can you do that for 6 bucks a ticket...I miss that section of the old stadium...
my dad took me to the 77 world series and we were in the bleachers. a guy pulled out a machete in the 4th inning or something. the cops didnt even want to be bothered because of the paperwork involved so they took him away and when i turned around in the 7th inning he was back in his seat. No way the New York cops were going to miss a world series doing paperwork that place was one of a kind. not for the meek but the greatest experiences ever. when they cleaned it up a little bit of what being a yankee fan died. its a shame. greatest place to watch a yankees game
IMO again playoff time I think Hughes goes to the pen, remember the kid sheet on himself in the WS last year.....ALDS, 3 man rotation CC, Lee, Andy sick btw....AJ, and Vaz to the pen...again sick..... ALCS, and WS....I would go 4 man, they only did 3 man last year cuz it was either Hughes/Gaudin/Mitre as the 4th scary.....this year though....it would CC/Lee/Andy/AJ.....wow...Hughes to the pen... As for Lee, I havent heard ONE thing about an extension which kind of scares me, the last thing I want to see happen is giving up Monterio for nothing.....pray CC, and AJ get to him and convince him to stay like Wade did for Bosh/LBJ.......Who is outbidding the Yankees?? The Mets are the only team I see doing it...Philly never pulls the trigger...Sox dont need him, they need bats..... Heres a question Yanks fans, are they really gonna give Jeet 25 milly..?? Come on.....
not this again.... it is what it is....the threads last several pages takes this from all sides.! I can understand those outside the Yanks base that are opposed, but its really Win/Win no matter how it plays out from Yanks side of things.
ehh not when u have 3 more just like him waiting in the wings, they like Romine better than Monterio I believe...natural catcher...
There is only one uniform for that boy......25M or not.....only one uniform. When the negotiations for Jeet and Mo start....things will find a way to work themselves out for them financially and Cashmans payroll mindset. Whether its 25M or less even. heck you could pull a Steve Phillips and in 20years we will see Derek Jeter's name on the payroll getting several Mil as an annuity??? LOL!
You see, you don't know that, how many can't miss prospects miss? They are winning the AL with or without Lee. You will sign Lee in the off season. Hold onto your chips, you may need them for someone else if somebody goes down. You need a Bullpen guy, with Mariano hurting, I would be looking for that, you don't want to put any of your starters back there.
