From Yahoo Sports...Dolphins picking WR Bryant or linebacker

The idea would be to have a great O and a strong secondary and/or pass rush. Score points, force the other team to pass, force bad throws w/ the pass rush & create turnovers w/ the secondary, win lots of games. Colts have been doing it for ten years. IMO we're closer to being able to do that than we are to being able to run, run, run and play GREAT defense. As another poster pointed out, the current rules give offense based teams a big advantage over defensive teams. I'd suggest Parcells & co. stop trying to resurrect the 90 Giants and start trying to recreate the 90 Bills, just without Scott Norwood.

 

I'm mixed on Kindle. I'm not sure if I see a fit for him here, unless you want to put him at WOLB. I think his explosiveness and quickness is outstanding. He's a blitzer, not a pass rusher, at the moment IMO but he's got a ton of upside and he's got great strength. He sets the edge well IMO. Problem is, he's so raw in terms of being a technician. Despite all that strength, he doesn't shed blocks well enough because he doesn't know how to use his hands. In the end, there's something about him that makes me like him. I've seen too many flashes of his potential to ignore him.

 

IMO, his forty yard dash time has nothing to do with him as a pass rusher.

 

agree on him being a blitzer as opposed to a pass rusher right now. His best year IMO was his junior year when he was moved around the line to exploit mismatches. I havent really seen Sparano do that here with JT or Porter but I gotta think Parcells is waitng for that type of linebacker. Ware, LT, he has a history with it when he gets the right guy. He's definitely not a finished product. I think the thing with his hands is it was his first year as a pure DE so I believe he will improve rather dramatically and quickly as he gains more experience with technique. Plus he's the only one of the main OLB prospects for us with actual LB experience which cuts down on the bust probability phenomenally

 

I think it normally would cut down the bust probability but I'm not so sure with him, especially in this defense. Every time I've watched him, he's looked stiff. In this defense, specifically as a strong side rusher, he'll be asked to do some work in space. Again though, I think he could be a candidate for the weak side because I think his first step is good enough. Mix his explosiveness with the fact that he sets the edge well enough IMO, that would be a quality edge setters on both sides of the line, assuming you can find a guy who can handle SOLB duties.

 

I think if he comes in and has to work under Nolan he'll be blitzing an insane amount of times. This leads me to believe that against QB's like Peyton he will be much less effective because he has a quick release. As such I think a quicker LB would make more sense here. Then again as I said before I'm not an expert. Personally I prefer Brandon Graham after a trade down. I think that gives us more value.

 

If he comes in and plays weak side rusher, he'll be going downhill just about every down under Nolan. He's got a good closing burst, he's quick off the line and he's explosive too. If he's playing strong side, he won't adapt and he'll struggle IMO. He's not built for playing in space.

I'd prefer Graham as well. I don't usually like raw pass rushers, especially ones that don't use their hands at least decently. I just don't want to ignore Kindle yet. I think he's got a lot to learn but I don't think he's Vernon Gholston v2.0. If I had my choice of any linebacker in the first round, I'd take Jerry Hughes in a heartbeat. I think down the line, he'll be able to play both outside linebacker spots but some may disagree with me.

I'm no expert either. I'm just another guy who watches football. I respect your thoughts, I just kindly disagree.

 

Thats the problem with Kindle. Potential. We cant draft at 12 on potential and flashes I think. We need to come out with a stud who can step in and play.

All that you describe just sounds Cam Wakeish. If we go with Kindle it seems either he or Wake will be riding the pine for the majority of snaps. You take a Bryant, an Earl Thomas - they will be playing the majority of snaps most likely.

I do largely agree with your assessment of him, but to me that just screams pass considering where we are drafting and what our needs are.

BTW have you come out with a mock or anything Alen? Despite your claim of being 'just another guy' you do put in more effort than most of them. Id be interested to hear whom you are hoping we grab at 12.

 

i actually see him as a possible WOLB for us also. I'm wondering if we have a chance at a Kindle/ Hughes 1-2 draft though. Could Hughes handle the run responsibilities as a SOLB?

 

Trust me he isnt Cam Wake. Playing the run shouldnt be a problem for him. Dropping into an area wont be a problem for him. Running step for step with a TE might be a problem but thats a hell of a lot less questions than Wake has right now

 

I hear you and I don't really disagree with you. It's just that we have to keep all of our options open with this front office because we don't know what direction they are going to go in. Like I said, if it was up to me, it would be Jerry Hughes than Brandon Graham. I think those two guys are immediate impact players but after that, it gets difficult to project outside linebackers in the first round because the rest of the guys are a bit raw, except Derrick Morgan who I'm mixed on. The more I watch Morgan, the more I feel that he won't be an elite pass rusher in this league. I said in the Club Level that I see a lot of Daryl Tapp and Kyle Vanden Bosch in him and I'm sticking to that.

Cameron Wake is someone that I have in mind when I picture Kindle. I think they are similar in some ways but Kindle is better against the run. I wouldn't be ticked off with Kindle here, I just don't see where he fits here, which I brought up earlier. I'm not sure where he fits in this defense.

I can understand why and I agree with you. It all depends on the guys available. If we have Hughes and Graham available, which I think we will see both on the board, and we take a guy like Kindle or Dan Williams, I will be royally ticked off.

Not yet. I plan on doing one next week.

Thanks man. I just don't see myself as anymore than anyone else here. We're all watching the same game, right? That's enough for me.

 

It really depends on who you ask. In my opinion, yes. Some of the guys strongly disagreed with me when we talked about this in the Club. I think he has the strength for it, I think he needs work on technique. Do I see him coming in and doing it immediately? Honestly, no but I think he can develop into a SOLB.

 

he's borderline in my eyes as a SOLB. He clearly will be a dangerous player as a WOLB. Its funny but the guy who kind of scares me is Graham. I just wonder about his short arms. nothing else worries me but his arms worry me

 

His arms are 32 1/4" IIRC? I agree, its a concern but he's been productive at every level. Tough to ignore. His height and arms is something I thought would keep him out of the top 25 or so picks pre-Combine but I was incorrect. Doesn't seem to be an issue amongst NFL evaluators and he's graded as a top 20 pick. I guess all we can do is sit back and watch.

 

the bills had a great defense back then
the colts got better when they improved their defense
saints closed out the SB with a pick six

 

I basically agree with you. If you look at our depth chart right now today, IMO, the biggest weakness is Moses, who if we played tomorrow would be the SOLB. The two OLB who fit the Parcells prototype and are capable of being of the same ilk as Carl Banks and Willie McGinest, are Everson Griffen and Derrick Morgan.
I'd like to see a FS upgrade too, and that position is able to impact the passing game more than a SOLB, but Moses is a bigger weakness than Tyrone Culver, if we had to start the latter at FS.

 

Yea and the saints defense was ranked 18th in the league.

 

If we decided the SAM was the biggest weakness on the D, and IMO it is, what with the stupid decision to waive Roth, and if we draft that direction in round 1, which LBs best fit what historically Parcells has looked for in a SAM? IMO, it would have to be Derrick Morgan or Everson Griffen. I cannot think of any other LBs who are as big and strong, who could start from the get go essentially as a standup DE in what essentially looks more like a 5-2 than a 3-4.

 

Yessir. Griffen doesnt get much love @ #12 but he's my dark horse. Word is he has "motor" issues, but when I watch him he seems like just the kind of player you'd want as a SOLB.

 

Thanks ! I wasnt even going to respond to that foolishness

 

they're the offensive version of the 2000 Ravens.

 

Yeah, but there seems to have been a lot of offensive versions of the 2000 Ravens in the Superbowl the past few years.

Which has to do with the fact that since the 90's this has gradually become an extremely pass happy league.

 

Yeah. Sergio plays the run very well. He's the only defender on Texas's team this past season that could play the run well.

 

Yet Texas ranked first nationally in run defense, 3rd in total defense, and 8th in scoring defense. Amazing with just one player who could play the run well.

I'm sure your response, if any, would be that they didn't play in the SEC.

 

You just can't breathe on a WR these days...

And, short of mississippis, rushing the passer has been reduced to nothing more than a social call, minus the orderves

God forbid you try and run the ball down the other team's throat and run the risk of being called a "gimmick" offense

 

Well, they didn't play in the SEC, and when they went up against an SEC team, they were thoroughly dominated. There were always questions about exactly how good Texas's defense was, considering that they do not play in a run oriented league. It's not hard to hold teams to low rushing totals when you are playing teams like Texas Tech that throw the ball 50 times a game.

 

He won't be here with twelfth pick IMO. If he somehow slipped to 43, which wouldn't surprise me, then sure I can see it. The motor issues stem from his practice days last year. He wasn't working hard enough in practice and Pete Carroll wasn't thrilled about it. His teammates talked about it as well and he lost his starting job when he was given it by default. Every year, he's been essentially given a starting position because of his talent but Carroll wasn't happy so he took it away and that paved the way for Clay Matthews to get some action last year, which led to him going in the first round, as you know. This year, Griffen got the starting job and he did well. However, you can still see some plays being taken off when you watch him. He's got a ton of talent but I wonder if he will ever get it.

 

LOL...tuff crowd!

 

That's really uh, magical.

Whether or not there is an actual worthwhile S or LB at #12 is irrelevant, apparently.

Ah yes, because our offense is absolutely above reproach.

When did Jeff Ireland get promoted to the coaching staff?

Yes, because this is clearly a draft of unparalleled talent that makes trading down an asinine idea.

 

so the Bills didnt have a real good defense in the early 90's to go with their high powered offense.
also the tracy porter pick, a defensive play was the biggest play in the SB was it not
your attempted insult is the only foolishness i see.

 

Have you seen and read this?

http://www.universaldraft.com/2010/01/13/2010-spotlight-olb-sergio-kindle-texas/

 

just as many defensive versions also. The only thing that has happened is the introduction of the spread and defenses need time to adjust. you need a solid pass rush and a good secondary to combat it. Teams that have that (i.e Giants, Steelers) win and those years when there arent those teams the offensive ones can win. Moral of the story you need to pressure the quarterback and a secondary that can take advantage of rushed throws. We're getting there. Maybe after this draft, we'll be there

 

No offense dude, wasnt tryna insult you. I just call it like I see it, and based on what you said, you dont seem to have any idea what youre talkin about.

The 90 Bills had a high powered, no huddle style offense that scored ALOT of points (26.4/1st in league) and put pressure on opposing teams to do the same. The O had 4 HOF players (Reed-Kelly-Thomas-Lofton). On D they had 1 HOF pass rusher (Smith) and two All-Pro LBs (Bennett & Talley). The rest of thier D was pedestrian, Shane Conlan, Ray Bentley, Leon Seals, Jeff Wright, Nate Odomes, Mark Kelso, James Williams, Kirby Jackson etc. Hardly the 2000 Ravens. They actually beat us in the divisional round that year, 44-34 IIRC. A shootout, not much defense.

As for the Super Bowl...Calling one play the biggest play in an entire game really is foolish. Reggie Wayne had a bum knee, ran a choppy route (5 steps between his breakdown and his turn), the CB read his route, jumped inside and made the pick. Any good CB wouldve jumped a slow developing route like that, especially considering the Saints were blitzing so a shorter route was to be expected. Peyton was under pressure, didnt didnt have time to make sure that Wayne got inside the CB. But its a route the Colts run a hundred times a year so I dont think he had much reason to worry. Point is, it was more of an offensive mistake than a great defensive play, and more importantly it was one play out of 100+. Only the casual/sportscenter fan would think it was the "biggest" anything. No offense or anything

 

Worilds is a damn good player IMO. I'd love to have him on this team, assuming his shoulder checks out medically.

 

Yea but according to you Jeff Ireland is in charge of the defense, not Mike Nolan. If we get say Eric Berry and he isn't utilized well, its not on Ireland, that's Nolan fault. It's why when the defense sucked as bad as it did last year, Pasqualoni was held accountable, not Ireland.

 

So in your mind a good defense is judged by how many pro bowler they have
that is kind of short sighted imo
also i never once brought up the ravens defense in this argument. i never said the bills had a better defense
if you want to bring up that playoff game against the bills you have to remember that game was played in a snow storm. neither one of the defenses had a chance that day against those qb's. when marc logan fumbled the ball on a kickoff late in the game that killed it for us
remember the afc championship game when the bills held us to 10 points

in the SB manning was driving the colts to potentially tie the game
you call that an easy play for the corner to make but he made the play and scored a pick six on the biggest play of the game
BTW i never watch sportscenter. instead i watched the entire football game and saw it with my own eyes that a defensive play sealed the deal

 

And Dont Forget about the last person we passed up because we were unsure of His "Shoulder"