Tebow to the Pats makes all the sense in the world really. They have the ammo in round 2 to afford a "luxury" pick. They desperately need QB depth, they can afford to let Tebow sit for at least 2-3 years with Brady (ala Rogers/Favre), Meyer and Bellicheat are BFFs, etc etc. I still think we cannot rule out Jacksonville at some point either. When your franchise cant fill a stadium, games are blacked out locally and you are hemorrhaging money, putting butts in seats IS a need as much as any 1 football player. Tebow will do that. Bottom line - one more year of this for JVille and they will then be playing in LA or Oklahoma City or somewhere else.
In my evaluation of Tebow I see a guy with: decent size good to very good accuracy; both short and long above average athleticism at least good reading skills; the Gator offense includes many NFL reads, it's part of the reason he has impressed in interviews. average to slightly above average arm strength phenomenal leadership. His release is a legitimate concern but it's not as slow as some NFL QBs have had. The change is his mechanics are minor. All they really did was get him to drop that loop in his wind up. His release point is the same. In my experience changing the release point is what effects accuracy and most commonly causes changes to mechanics to fail. IMO he is a legitimate second round prospect who will probably go in the first round. He'll need time to adapt, but no more than any other spread QB. The big issue spread QBs face is learning to take the ball under center and learning to read defenses while dropping back. Tebow's best situation would be some place like Indianapolis or NE where he'll have 2 or 3 years to adapt, much like Rodgers got.
Thank God somebody finally nailed it, great post. It's the loop that has everyone in a tizzy- I don't like it either, but it's far from a death knell. There's sometimes a lack of balance/jerkiness when he throws that I'm not crazy about either, a minor awkwardness. part of it could be how some lefties look when they throw, a la Stabler. Look at the tape- everything spelled out by Rafael is true. Including the speed of release, which isn't nearly as slow as some portray it to be. Finally, a voice of reason. Desides, too. p.s. Rafael- 6-2 3/4 236 lbs is better than decent size, don't you think?
Generally agreed, though I see him as only average athletically. I'd also downgrade his arm strength just a notch, since some of his deeper throws seem to lose a little juice. (Then again, I base that on a relatively small sample size. It's entirely possible I'm wrong.) He's capable of making NFL reads and throws, but he needs to be comfortable taking the snap, and he needs to get the ball out quickly. I don't think he'll succumb to the temptation to pull the ball down and run Vince Young style, but you won't really know for sure until he starts playing. Concerns about his mechanics are legitimate but ultimately overblown. Yes, he needs coaching up and refinement, but ultimately it only matters if he gets the ball out on time, not how he gets the ball out on time. Lastly, I would put Indy, Seattle, and Minnesota as more likely destinations for Tebow ahead of NE. Something about Tebow to the Pats seems... off, somehow. I can't explain it, just a gut hunch.
I didn't realize he was as athletic as he was until the combine. I always wrote off his athletic plays by saying "he'll never get away with that at the next level". However, his combine numbers were impressive. Tebow was clearly a superior athlete and I had to rethink my initial evaluation.
I first would like to say that I think you should try to take Alez off your ignore, he's good peeps, This is Thephins.com brother, not some other BS site, we work sh%4 out with others intellectually ya know, and with the ability to accept other's being themselves. jmho, no disrespect to you or Alez. Lets talk about projections.. Iam on the record with you about Claussen, mine started 2 years ago and anyone that knows me, will tell you that. I said that he will be the most overrated prospect in the draft, but the reviews have been comin in and He should deservingly drop, hell, he's off my board completely, Give me Bradford, Mccoy and Lefevour in a heartbeat... Tebow...Check out the draft forum for those doosie debates...There was some good discussion from people telling me he didnt deserve it, they didnt seem to understand where I was coming from...I will stipulate that my reasoning for projecting him in the first a long time ago was not because Thats what i personally believed he should go based on talent, but that His overall stock as a player and person, and where the NFL has been going, {wildcat] that he would wammy somebody in the first. The dynamics of the player are quite irresistable for teams that are on the bottom. I got 3 teams that I have him going to.. New england...Jax...Cleveland... I like what Cleveland is doing with that offense, I see tremendous hybrid potential there...Cribbs, Tebow, and wallace would be a dangerous formation to come out with.. New england..They have 3 2nd rounders, and Belicek is jealous of ronnie in the cat. He wants his own. Jax....for reasons known. I got him going to the Pats... Like Alen said..its early though...either way, its good stuff
His Combine numbers were excellent, absolutely. They save me from describing him as a below-average athlete. He has physical tools, but I wonder if some of them are simply irrelevant. For example, his vertical leap--he tied Josh McCown's record, for all the good it's done for McCown's career. On the other hand, a professional offseason program could do wonders with the potential that's clearly there. Still, I don't think anyone's ever going to confuse Tebow with Vince Young in terms of athleticism. And to be clear, I don't ding Tebow for this. Just to stay consistent, I don't think Peyton Manning is the world's greatest athlete either. Quarterbacks don't need to be Olympians.
Your first sentence stopped me in my tracks. Average athletically? Seriously? 6026 236 4.71 40 yd dash 2.66 20 yd dash 1.55 10 yd dash 38 1/2 vertical 9' 07" broad jump 4.17 20 yd shuttle 6.66 3 cone drill And what QB would be stronger than him if he llifted? Jon Gruden called him the strongest QB of all time.
McCoy went from overrated to underrated. I think that the Vikings and Colts should seriously consider him in the 1st, and if not he should be a shoo in for the Rams at the top of the 2nd if they somehow pass on Bradford. The Browns should take a good hard look too if he's available early in the 2nd. I would take McCoy over Claussen and not think twice about it. Regarding Tebow, it's the opinions of the pro scouts that matter, not the peanut gallery draft projectors, including us. All this crap about Tebow- we'll see what happens when the pros are on the clock. Same thing with Claussen. Want to see a joke? Look at the Walter Football site. The guy has been cumming all over himself regarding Claussen- the dude wrote a manifesto about why the Rams absolutely must take him #1 overall. Now it's leaking that real scouts, not the amateur hacks, don't have nearly as high an opinion of him and he's dropping to late 1st/2nd rd territory. Walter is about to have a hissy fit and cry. Too bad, Walter. You blew it (or I should say from the effusiveness of your praise, maybe you wanted to). Claussen just isn't that good. Deal with it. As to Alex- he'll be in the penalty box for a while until he loses the snarkiness and learns how to write a decent post. There's no upside there for me.
I get it from my projection that when Tim Tebow steps onto an NFL field, there will be quite a few guys who are physically more gifted than him. To me, athleticism isn't about measurements as much as what you do with those measurements, as it's entirely possible for someone to measure out yet still be a slug. (JaMarcus Russell...) When I describe Tebow as an average athlete, I do it in the context of NFL players. He's more athletic than 90% of the population, but is he more athletic than the defensive ends who will try to sack him, the cornerbacks trying to intercept him, the wide receivers trying to connect with him, or even the linebackers trying to read him? I don't believe so. I'm stating my opinion of Tebow's athleticism in the context of NFL positions. He's very athletic for a quarterback, and he'd probably be fairly (but not mind-shatteringly) athletic for the TE position if he converted, but I wouldn't hold his athleticism in high regard if he played OLB. Contrast him with Vince Young, who I believe would be a standout athlete at some of those positions. You really don't need to be so defensive about this.
I don't mean to sound defensive. The relative context imo is Tebow as compared to other Quarterbacks, not DE's, LB's or any other position. Compare most other NFL QBs to DE's or OLBs and it would be a sad, sad, state of affairs. And I think that he would rate at or near the top if compared athletically to other QBs. I never understood the concept of him converting to TE, FB or any other position. I think that it's folly.
I never argued against considering him in the upper echelon of quarterbacks in terms of athleticism, though. I did say that the distinction is relatively meaningless, but I'm not taking anything away from him by saying that. QB just isn't very dependent on athleticism, that's all. If he doesn't pan out at QB, converting to TE is a legitimate option, just as other college QBs who don't pan out at QB in the NFL convert to WR.
Can't see him panning out anywhere other than QB IMO. And even then I just see him as a Seneca Wallaca type. Roll player who will show flashes of greatness, but isn't good enough to carry it by themselves. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
QB-to-WR conversions happen all the time. They don't normally work out, but they happen. A position change for Tebow IS a realistic possibility, but only if he washes out at QB. And he'll wash out at QB only if a team drafts him too high and shoves him into the starting job before he's ready... which is also a realistic possibility.
I don't see a successful conversion to TE or FB in his future. In other words I think that he would fail at those positions. As great an athlete as Michael Vick is/was, who's to say that he could successfully convert to RB or WR? I'm not buying the concept, just my opinion.
I generally don't like QB-WR conversions, but they happen all the time. They just don't work out all the time. And yes, it IS in the cards for Tebow if he's drafted into the wrong situation. Tebow's future is hugely dependent on which team takes him, much more so than for any other player I can think of. As for Vick, I thought that before trading Schaub, Atlanta's best chance at offensive success was letting Schaub play QB and Vick play RB.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Imo position switch success is by far more the exception than the rule.
Everyone here forgets about him just being a winner. That alone gets him a nudge above others. He wins. His speech at the college level when he won the championship, made owners, coaches, and fans love him. Don't think Tebow, the man, will not win over owners, before someone else who might have personal questions.
And so it begins. For those of you late to the party, welcome: Philadelphia Eagles eyeing Tim Tebow to replace Donovan McNabb? The Philadelphia Eagles could replace Donovan McNabb with a less-developed yet equally popular quarterback. The Eagles, who traded McNabb to Washington on Sunday, reportedly have interest in evaluating and possibly drafting Tebow in the 2010 NFL draft on April 22-24. Sports Illustrated's Peter King reports the Eagles will focus on Tebow and "join the parade of teams working him out and spending time with him." The Eagles, picking 24th in the first round, have seven picks in the first four rounds. The Eagles might have to fend off other teams eyeing Tebow for the first round, including Seattle (No. 6 selection), Buffalo (No. 9) and Jacksonville (No. 10). http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/uf-gators/sfl-tim-tebow-eagles-040610,0,376135.story
Man, I KNEW it! I knew when Philly got Washington's 2nd rounder, they were eying Tebow. But, I was thinking they were thinking they could get him with that 2nd round pick (#37). When, in fact it's starting to sound as if teams (including Philly) are trying to position themselves up into the top ten? WOW! Well, they've got the picks to do it. NE too. Man, this is gonna be one helluva first round this year. At least the first 12-15 picks anyway. High drama I tell ya!
You know it. I can just see it now- self professed draft experts scratching themselves on their heads thinking, "Huh? What just happened?" It'll be an interesting draft for sure.
Expect this if Philly drafts Tebow, deja vu all over again!!!, Number 34 wants to kick somebodys arse in...he is mad boy!!! [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBJEfmQA9q4"]YouTube- Eagles Fans Are Smart[/ame]
I'm not so sure that the responsibility for his teams' multiple failures in big games can be laid at his feet. He just got the weapons, and now he's gone. We'll see how Kevin Kolb handles himself this year. And we'll see if McNabb takes it to Philly when the Redskins play them.
If I'm Philly, I dont want to play that guy twice a year...if you look at some of his stats in the big games though, he gagged it a little....it takes nothing away from him though, I think he is a fine QB.....it is hard to win the big games...
Another way of looking at it FY is let's see what McNabb does with a coach that likes to run the ball, and runs a lot of play action off of it. If Washington improves that Oline, I say watch out. They already have the D. Just sayin...
thats the thing, they have a better defense than Philly, and they have some wideouts, not like Philly, but they do have Moss, Devin Thomas, a great TE....and no they have Shanny, who just produces points by himself....Washington my be pretty decent this year..
Philly, with no linebackers of note on the roster save for Stewart Bradley coming off an ACL tear are going to draft Tim Tebow when they've just traded McNabb so as to let a star in the making in Kevin Kolb play? Do me a favour.
Philly is not drafting Tebow in the first, they traded McNabb to play Kolb not to waste a first round pick on a major project. I'd wager Vick would be a better Qb option than Tebow I think this talk is ridiculous, Tebow isn't a 1st round Qb, he's a major raw prospect with major flaws in his motion, accuracy, basically just about every mechanical problem a Qb can have. He's a likable guy but the talk of him moving up from a 5th round project pick to the 1st round is strange to me, he's a major reach in the 1st round. I love when people say 'he wins', yeah.....he won at college....theres a list of players 2 miles long that 'won' at the college level and never sniffed being a quality starter in the NFL. Its not uncommon to succeed at the college level and not have the talent to make it in the NFL, its nothing to be ashamed about. I don't know why its seen as being a bad person to say he won't be a good NFL Qb, I think he's a complete waste of a 1st day pick. I hope someone takes him in the 1st so another player drops down to our 2nd rounder.
They just picked up Alex Hall in a trade with Cleveland, and they're apparently high on him. Kolb played very well in spot duty, but I wouldn't call him a sure thing just yet. Philly isn't dumb enough to pass on talent to force a need pick at OLB, plenty of other picks to fill needs. If value is there at OLB, great. If not they'll probably look elsewhere. From Peter King of SI: "I think the hidden player in the Browns-Eagles deal Friday might just be a factor in Philadelphia. His name is Alex Hall, a seventh-round pick from St. Augustine (N.C.) College in 2008 by then-Cleveland GM Phil Savage. Savage believes Hall got short-shrift by the Mangini coaching staff, and when Savage got hired by the Eagles as a scout, he got his brain picked by the Eagles staff, and here comes Hall. I recall writing about the Browns' offseason in 2008, detailing how Cleveland found this kid from a nowhere football school. Here's what I wrote in an offseason team diary three days before the 2008 draft: This was crazy. Instead of huddling with his gathered scouts in Berea and massaging the draft board, Savage hopped a 10 a.m. flight to Baltimore, rented a car, drove 24 miles to Prince George's Community College, set up four orange cones on a chewed-up open field, and shook hands with one of the most marginal prospects in the 2008 draft: St. Augustine (N.C.) College outside linebacker Alex Hall. The draft was three days away, and here was Savage, looking at a player he might take in the seventh round, or try to sign as a longshot free-agent. Why? Because Savage trusts his scouts, and one of his pups on the staff, 25-year-old scout Bobby Vega, told him this was the one second-day guy of the linebackers he scouted who could make an impact this year and eventually -- possibly -- be the bookend pass-rusher to Kamerion Wimbley the Browns needed. Savage had watched some tape and seen production and good speed (26 sacks in three small-college seasons), but now, before committing a precious pick to Hall, needed to see him. Savage placed a football at the end of the line of cones and asked Hall to run in S-curves through the cones and back. Hall ran through the cones, and without being told scooped up the ball in full stride and ran back. The athleticism stunned Savage. He didn't need to see anything else. Vega was right. Hall had a chance to fill a Cleveland void, and he might last 'til the seventh round. Under coach Romeo Crennel and defensive coordinator Mel Tucker, Hall had some modest success as a rookie -- three sacks -- but was a non-factor after the coaching change to Mangini. "He was productive a couple of years ago and didn't have much of an opportunity last year,'' said Philly GM Howie Roseman. Hall, at about 254 pounds, will be tried as a strongside linebacker for the Eagles, competing with Moise Fokou. Clearly, the Eagles have a need that Hall will have a chance to fill." Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/04/05/mcnabb/4.html#ixzz0kPygCndK What favour are you requesting?
Yep, Alex Hall with his 3 career sacks. Great. It's clear that Kolb is the starter and the franchise QB. They were turning down 1st rounders for him at the owners meeting and if you've watched him play, you'd know. Even the idea that Philly would pass up help on the OL and especially at linebacker when they have a chance to pick players like Sean Weatherspoon, Thad Gibson, Daryl Washington, Sean Lee, Navorro Bowman is patently ludicrous. Drafting Tebow undermines Kolb immediately. You've got just got rid of the former franchise QB and you draft Tebow, opening up a can of worms for your new franchise QB. Won't happen. The only favour I want is for you to stop putting people on ignore who disagree with you and allowing nonsensical points such as "Tebow had better stats than Peyton Manning" fly without calling people to task as I know you know better.
Some of Tebow's college stats are in fact better than Manning's. But by no means would I compare Tebow to Manning as a QB or as a prospect for that matter. As to the ignore button, re read the post which led to it. It's just a better option than sliding into the mud with someone, which I admit I've done more than I'm proud of. I don't use ignore that often, but it seems to bypass a lot of problems and potential ugliness. No need for that his year. Hope all is well in London, cheers.
True, but in a pass-first offense like that, the law of averages should drag Tebow's per attempt numbers down while inflating his totals. Instead he was better per attempt than Manning while putting up lower yardage and half the INTs. Numbers like those stand out to me. If he can learn to take snaps in a non-spread formation, he should be fine.
His numbers where inflated due to his threat to run and the elite speed of his receivers creating long plays. Which in the NFL he will more than likely not have due to professional game speed.
That makes little sense. Were Vince Young's college numbers inflated because of his threat to run? Not really. Young's numbers are well below Tebow's, and I would say Young was a bigger rushing threat than Tebow, too. Tebow can make the reads and the throws. He needs time to bake. If he takes meaningful snaps before 2012, things probably won't end well.
