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Tannehill Running

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan7171, Nov 20, 2015.

  1. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

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    I have been reading articles and watching conferences that mentions from Tannehill, players, and Campbell that he needs to run more. I know he ran well last year but he hasn't ran much this time around. Since we are attempting a playoff run, should his running ability be part of the offense to help get us into the playoffs?
     
  2. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    [​IMG]

    Couldn't resist. I say if it works earn that paycheck.
     
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  3. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Here's an article saying that Campbell wants him to run more too.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/20/dan-campbell-wants-ryan-tannehill-to-run-more/

    I think it might open up the running game. They haven't been running the QB option in the last 4 or 5 games as much as they did at the beginning of the season or last year. He is taking a beating so they may not want to subject him to too many more hits. But last game the QB keeper option was open but they weren't taking advantage of it IMO. Especially in the second half.

    Here's an interesting question. Do you start out running Tannehill out of the option to show them that look or wait until the 2nd half, after you haven't done it at all and need to get a big play after they are tending not to respect that he's going to run since this hasn't been the tendency in the last several games?
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yes
     
  5. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Can anyone super-impose Tanny's face on Forrest and his own offensive line in the car?
     
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  6. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He should be on the move more. There's no doubt.

    Lets start with letting have more control over audibles first though.

    Lazor needs to untighten the reigns a bit.
     
  7. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB

    When Tannehill runs, it has really made this offense click. It seems that, the games he ran more in last year, we won. I don't understand why we haven't done much of it this year so far. Bill Lazor needs to learn what does and doesn't work. Does work: Tannehill running. DOESN'T work: the shotgun sweep.
     
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  8. Jagfish

    Jagfish Season Ticket Holder

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    I wondered if it was b/c he had an ankle injury early on. Nothing deflates a defense like a QB run for a first down.
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    thats a different topic..and its concerning as well.

    The problem here is three fold..coordinator doesnt run him nearly enough, cutting his production down about 75 % from last year... He has no idea when to tuck and run himself..now .some folks will argue that he needs good protection to do that as well, and for those folks I lol..and of course we know the coordinator isnt booting him nearly enough relative to his talent.

    If these three things happened smartly every game I believe there would be a lot less cirticism of the qb..

    Tom brady has more unscripted runs past the LOS than ryan...there is something very wrong with that..

    threatening a defense with the qbs ability to run, can slow down a pass rush, improve your 3rd down conversion rate, and bottom line, win games...Shouldnt that be talked about more when your the most pressured/sacked qb in the league..
     
  10. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Now are they talking about designed run plays or scrambling when plays break down?
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    their article mentions nothing of the unscripted element to the game, just scripted, we know they both are doormant, inexcusably doormant..

    Show me you can lead, win and make playoffs before you start eliminating 3 parts to a qb's skillset...

    Im happy that they have publicly acknowledged it, maybe both the qb and coordinator will get their heads out their asses.
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    let me ask you a question..out of all the violent hits ryan has taken which ones came when he was a statue in the pocket, which ones when he was running scripted or unscripted?

    That endzone hit he took last week was viscious, absolutely viscious, and if it would of put him out for this game maybe folks would open their eyes more...its not more dangerous to have him run in both ways, he has an awareness as to know when to get down.
     
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  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    thru 9 games ryan has 17 attempts {scripted and unscripted} for 44 yards..

    last year ryan had 311 yards after the season..

    he ran 3 1/2 times a game last year relative to the skillset, which is not even that much..The progression of him as a qb should of been to add another carry per game to that average..
     
  14. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    I don't think he recognizes the pressure soon enough to get good run lanes a lot of the time.
     
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  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    correct..anticipation of rush, peripheral vision are both lacking..

    on the other hand for those who want him to operate exclusively out of the pocket and think thats the way to go to win multiple championships then their happy, cause he sure as hell will stare down the barrell..however, Imo, A qb has to know that line, reshuffle, manipulate and reset, or bottm line, take off and run for yardage and show a defense another threat in your arsenal..these things have positive residual affect against a defense..slowing the rush is one..
     
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  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    [video=twitter;667547655531159555]https://twitter.com/NFL/status/667547655531159555?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw[/video]
     
  17. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I have all the faith in the world RT could make that same play, all else being equal...if Lazor calls this play.

    OT but ROFL @ the NFL..."flip" into the endzone...tone it down girls, it was a dive...gotta rev up that hype machine I guess, they know their product is ****.
     
  18. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Based on Lazor's comments and how little we see this, I think Lazor discourages this, TBH. He keeps talking about how the QB's first job is to stay in the pocket and look downfield.
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I really dont think this is true Bras..I don't think any coordinator discourages taking off and making a play when the moment presents itself.
     
  20. heylookatme

    heylookatme Well-Known Member

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    From what I've heard, a lot of coaches actually take issue with it. It's an ego thing, maybe? A lot of coaches want a guy who will 'run the offense' and don't really care if he has the ability to make plays outside of the offense; this is supposedly the reason why Kirk Cousins wound up starting in Washington this season.
     
  21. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Lazor's last press conference makes me think otherwise, did you see it? I think if Lazor were to encourage this behaviour more, Tannehill would be doing it by now. Tannehill might be a lot of things, but one thing we do know is that he does what is asked of him... he has shown no instances of being a "rebel" in all of his years in Miami. If Lazor drilled running into his head, he would be running.
     
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  22. normaldude

    normaldude Active Member

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    You have adjust based on a QB's strengths & weaknesses.

    Ryan Tannehill is the opposite of Dan Marino.

    Ryan Tannehill has weak pocket presence, but is a good runner.

    He should spend less time in the pocket, and have more read-option runs and designed rollouts.

    As for Ryan Tannehill taking hits from running, it should be noted that all the crushing hits he's taken have been in the pocket or when flushed from the pocket.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I can't remember a single case where Ryan Tannehill took a crushing hit on a read-option run or designed rollout.

    On designed running plays, Tannehill will slide, get out of bounds, avoid the big hit.
     
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  23. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Ryan Tannehill barely runs anymore — and Dolphins want that to change
    http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article45505962.html
     
  24. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    they want tannehill to run more, yet we don't even handoff to miller and ajayi enough.............
     
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  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think you have to take account reps, I mean, Out of those 17 carries how many were unscripted, he's simply not doing it at all..If the coordinator is like what you say, I would say find a new coordinator..I mean if your tom brady then ok, but this dude can run..to not use the skillset properly to not allow the qb to improv out of danger sometimes is not smart imo.
     
  26. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    didn't he say last year that he liked to run and get hit because it made him more focused and "in the game"? i remember numerous times where he would run and then it seemed he would click throwing the ball and got into a zone.
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he did, and when he did run 4 or 5 times in a game and had 50 yards or so, we won, so the question became does running help you settle in, for which he replied '' I guess so'' the question was then asked to lazor and he replied'' maybe so''..

    which tells me they both dont have a clue of its importance or really how to implement in a timely fashion during the course of a game..If they did they both would run, lazor would move ryan early and often, and ryan would show the defense thats its gonna be a long day and that their going to have to account for my legs...but every game, we see nothing..maybe 1 roll out per game, 0 unscripted runs, and maybe 1 or 2 zone reads keepers if were lucky..theres really no sense running it if he's never gonna keep it..
     
  28. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    At the very least i'd like to see him get outside the pocket on a bootleg or something. He seems to be very effective throwing on the run the five times i've seen him do it during his career.
     
  29. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    that sack by mario williams is still the worst one he ever took from a physical point of view, imo
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    so some argue that they dont want him to move or run because it makes him vulnerable to injury, yet they fail to acknoeldge the beating hes taking from the pocket..
     
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  31. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    it happens on runs as well, see bridgewater and luck this year


    Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus using Tapatalk
     
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  32. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Historically, highly mobile superstar QB's like Randall Cunningham average six year careers in the NFL....where great pocket QB's last 12+. That's a stat that every head coach thinks about when asking their QB to run, and it's why folks like Tebow don't make rosters anymore. It's just too much of a gamble to bet the farm on a guy that could only be with you for a few years.

    HOWEVER, Tannehill wasn't drafted as a running quarterback and Philbin drilled it into him to stay in the pocket no matter what. He might have scrambled 5-6 times in his rookie season total and I don't think he ran it at all. Even in year two when he was flushed out, he would continue to scan the field for an outlet even though he had 20 yards of clear green grass right in front of him. So if you want to know why Tannehill is not running often, it's because it's been ingrained in his head to stand in the pocket and make the throw. The problem is, they did it so much that he doesn't scramble to avoid monster hits and he leaves a lot of plays on the field because he's thinking instead of reacting.

    Add to that another big problem....he has poor peripheral vision. He escaped pressure in college because he was on the move and his lateral vision wasn't as big of an issue. But now that we want him to stand still, it's a major issue and there is zero solution for fixing it. How can he step up in the pocket when he doesn't see the DE crashing down? He can't.

    By the way, I did a comparison on another site of the average pressures in the NFL.....Miami is about 3% above average, which works out to an extra pressure on 1.2 plays PER GAME. Brady has the best line in the league and he's pressured .9 plays per game less than average, or 2.9 less than Wilson up in Seattle (they have the worst line this season). But if we're comparing apples to apples here, our line is only slightly below average and they protect the QB just as good as any team....there's just not a huge variance between the best and the worst.

    The real difference is how each QB handles the pressure; Brady throws bullets, Wilson takes off running, Rodgers scrambles and buys more time. Tannehill- he doesn't recognize the pressure in time so he gets clobbered, and he also fumbles on those blind hits 1 in 3 times. So it's not a question of "should he" do more with his legs...it is an absolute necessity to remain competitive.

    Now, I'm not saying that he should rush 12 times per game, but keeping Tannehill in the pocket simply is not a valid long-term answer. As others have said, he does seem to excel when he gets outside the tackles and/or bursts down the field for a quick 10-15 yards, and we can do this successfully without putting him in serious danger like the Randall Cunningham's of the past. If he slides feet first, then he 100% safe....which makes hi mobility a huge benefit in this league. The key is to have him stop thinking about it though and just take off....EXACTLY LIKE HE DID IN COLLEGE. But again, he's been trained to stay in the pocket and that was very hard for him....that's like telling a boxer to switch to southpaw in round 7 and then switch back to righty in round 12. It takes far too much thinking when you should be letting instincts take over.

    For the record, I've said that I'm not a big fan of Ryan Tannehill for some time now and this is exactly the reason why....he's been coached into this robotic pocket passer who ignores 99% of his instincts on each play. While his numbers have increased due to great production by our receivers and better accuracy, he has regressed just as much each season as Philbin tried to make him fit a certain mold. And it sucks folks...but that's our QB1. He has the potential to be so much more, yet we have insisted that he forget about that stuff and learn to be a Peyton Manning clone.
     
  33. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    this is a pretty good summation of the coaching tannehill has gotten. where we disagree is that you view it as a negative. I think Tannehill is close to the point now where he's become a very good pocket QB (one who obviously needs a pocket though). I could see them now start to think about loosening the reigns on him a bit in regards to running though I dont want to see anything close to an RG III or Russell Wilson type of QB. If it was me, I would consider him running in certain situational areas. I wouldnt want him running at all in the first three quarters but if we're in a tight game in the 4th and its 3rd and 8 and you see a lane take off. If its the first qtr, stay in the pocket but 4th qtr we can start easing up on the reigns. anything it takes to win in the 4th.

    the reason you take away the legs from a qb and force him to stay in the pocket, even if the short term results are poorer than they would be if you didnt, is you have to break the horse of his instincts and teach him new instincts. you want him to think like a pocket qb.
     
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  34. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Eh, to me if there's a clear lane and no receiver open, he can take off, be it in the 1st or in the 4th. But the key words are "if there is clear lane" and that requires a certain amount of experience to know when he should run and when he shouldn't.
     
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  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    there is a skill that it takes to be smart about this..Luck is a sledge hammer and will sacrifice at all costs, ryan knows how to protect himself, weve seen 3 and 1/2 years of him to know this..he doesnt take big ahots..he/s aware thank goodness.

    so the question remains, where does he take the majority of his hits?..strait in the pocket, because thats where the defense knows hes going to be...at all times obviously..the numbers dont lie in this case..
     
  36. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    there was a game last year where he got destroyed running the ball. i dont remember against who though. he ran down the sideline and just got blown up and i think he fumbled
     
  37. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    I think Tannehill's skill set is close to Steve Youngs. He is getting to be a good pocket QB, but if he can get that killer instinct for when to run the ball and break the Defenses back, he'll be a great QB. He's not going to be able to develop that if they don't let him loose however. Can't coach it in, but they can sure coach it out.
     
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  38. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So pretty much no difference. He should run then.
     
  39. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Some runs here and there would be fine...some short 3rd down conversions, sure...but I'll be damned if I want him being a running QB. Another one just went on season-ending IR today (CKap).

    Those guys average FAR shorter careers than pocket guys...no thanks.
     
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  40. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree; he had to be adjusted to more of a pure pocket passer. There's no doubt. But at the same time, it shouldn't have ever been an absolute by telling him, "Don't ever run!!!"

    For example, one play from his 2nd year still sticks with me- it was like a 3rd and 5 and a blitz came right up the middle. He was flushed out of the pocket, peddling backwards and scanning the field, and pressure from the right side got him sprinting towards the sidelines. Well, he completely outran the blitz and the entire right side of the field was empty except for Hartline and a defender about 25 yards past the LOS. I mean, Tannehill could have jogged for the 1st down easily....he had 20 yards minimum...but he kept his focus on Hartline as he bobbed and weaved trying to get open. Then Tannehill threw an absolute bullet at him right as he got to the line of scrimmage...I remember thinking that he might have crossed and it was a dead play. Honestly, I don't even remember if the pass was caught....but it was absolutely ridiculous to throw the ball in the first place. The right side of the field was empty and half the opposition was chasing him from behind or the center of the field.

    Now that he's so thoroughly trained to never run though, I'm not sure if they can switch him back (to some degree). There have been a lot of read-option plays this year where he chose to hand off when the DE signaled it was a keeper, and I think he's scrambling less than ever as well. So I don't know how you solve that with a QB with poor peripheral vision...maybe have the linemen yell "fire" as a signal to take off running? That's what we used to do in college whenever there was a turnover...it meant to stop what you're doing and get downfield to throw a block or make a tackle.

    As I've said earlier though, the key to Tannehill's success is a solid run game. We have to pound Miller and Ajayi so the defense stays at home more often...that's the only short-term fix.
     
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