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What will it take?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Undisputed, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. Undisputed

    Undisputed Banned

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    I am surprised to see that there is still an anti-Tannehill contingent in here, which blows my mind. So I am asking them, what will it take for you to admit that Tannehill is a stud QB and can take this team to a superbowl? Seems that all the experts think more highly of him than his own fans. So I am curious, what will it take? It's obvious that 11th in the NFL in passing with 4045 yards, 27 TDs, 12 INT and a 93 QB rating wasn't enough. What do you need to see to realize he is an elite QB?
     
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  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Maybe if Tannehill were sacrificed as a lamb of God to absolve the sins of all mankind according to prophecy, then resurrected on the third day (Sunday, just in time for kickoff) to lead a come-from-behind win at New England to clinch the division.

    Then, maybe he'd still only have just LBs and FinO left to win over.
     
  3. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    Wow! ok.

    Sure looks promising that he will take another jump this year according to reports from camp and the limited time we got to see him in a game. Don't you think it is a bit early to throw out the elite status?
     
  4. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    I feel ya. I for one think Tannehill is 2nd tier right now, top ten for sure and probably top 7 this year.

    But you have to understand brah, the last 16 times we have fallen for the pretty girl at the bar (ie QB's) we get all happy and then she smiles at us and bats those baby blues and whisper sensually in our ear "take me to bed or lose me forever" and we think OHHH! OHHH! MY GAWD!!!! SHE"S GOURGEOUS AND SHE'S MINE!!!!

    And you get her home and all her clothes come off and....wait, sniff, sniff, awww gag gag gag what is that smell!?!?!

    Or her schlong is longer than yours...

    Or it's cold fish and a good hard cry after...

    Or her husband comes busting in and knocks you out...

    16 flippin times in a row.

    But Goddamm Tannehill is sexy, prettiest I seen in darn near twenty years
     
  5. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I see very little anti-Tannehill sentiment. There were maybe 5 posters that had a negative opinion of his contract, and almost none of them were regular posters. The opinions here range from average to top 5.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
     
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  6. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have him above average, and far better than many of the qb's out there, but not top 5. I'd be really w/ a top 8-ish finish by him (assuming of course a playoff win).
     
  7. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    I'm hoping everyone in my FF league here in Shehack ville keeps thinking hes mediocre til after the 4th rd anyway
     
  8. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    The only thing holding him back is an offensive line that has failed to protect him. An elite O Line will give us an elite Tannehill.
     
  9. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    There are some people who will only say that a QB is good if the team is one of the winningest in the league (in spite of the very flawed logic behind that). There are others who would throw away a "7" because he isn't a "10". Honestly, no matter how well Tannehill does, an no matter how well the team does, there will be detractors. Hell, Peyton Manning and Dan Marino have haters, and they're the best two QBs of my lifetime, IMO.
     
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  10. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    I haven't seen many Tannehill haters, but with that said, stats don't freaking matter. He has to be able to lead this team to ultimate victory. He hasn't even gotten us into the playoffs yet and you're ready to call him the elite?

    Seems you are on the exact opposite side of the spectrum of these ghosts you're calling out.

    Well unfortunately for you... After like 13 or 14 seasons of HELL at the position Dolphins fans have started to take the "show me first" stance. Can you blame them?

    Tannehill said judge him on wins... and I absolutely will. Cause nothing else matters but winning and losing. Take your stats and shove em. Your stats didn't win us the DEN GB and DET games last year did they?
     
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  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    make plays, under pressure, on the road, and I'll have peace, but he's def the best qb we've had since dan.

    Playmaking ability, I think thats the one element we haven't seen enough of to think, yup, franchise championship qb..
     
  12. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    i think most people believe in tannehill or think he has the talent to be a very good qb. there are very few "haters" i have seen on here and like what has been said they weren't really regular posters. for those people tannehill could have 50 td 30 of them to himself, while rushing for 3,000 yards and recording 17 sacks and still would say he sucked.

    a little off topic but DJ thats a badass avatar picture
     
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  13. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    So a defensive meltdown is now the Tannehill's issue? We had the lead in those games and the defense allowed a go ahead score.

    And you tell someone to take their stats and shove em? Maybe paint an accurate picture before calling someone else out. Your post is filled with bias.
     
  14. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Love the kid and am very happy he's our QB. The last 16 schlubs have ZERO to do with RT...it's not like it's the same team or organization that existed during their tenures. No relation whatsoever...it's not RT's fault people can't get over previous failures at the position.

    Elite...I think he's trending that direction and I believe he can get there, but not yet. If he can continue his camp performance through the season, you'll start seeing pundits claim that status for him, even if arguable. But no matter what, save a Super Bowl win, there are some who will never buy in, 'cuz he's not Marino. I've accepted that and moved on.
     
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  15. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Get a playoff win and I'll be all in. I think he is the best we have had since Marino, and think he'll keep getting better. He'll start to recognize defenses now and be able to think faster once he gets in a groove with the WR's. That'll mean less sacks and better conversion percentage on 3rd downs.
     
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  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It takes more than a QB to make the playoffs and win games. I'm not sure how much more of these statements I can take.
     
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  17. GrimeyGrimes

    GrimeyGrimes New Member

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    I'm a tanne guy, I think the knock on him is his inconsistent play. While is overall #'s tend to look good, he can at times crumble in big games. While some of this is because of O-line play, some is pocket awareness and his lack of deep ball. When these things come together the defense crowds the line, blitz's, makes Tanne look worse then he actually is at times. And in the post season, this kind of stuff is going to get amplified, and I think some poeple don't see Tanne as a guy that can lead a team through a tough gritty playoff game.

    With that said he also plays really well at big moments, but I think early in his career it's been more of the not stepping up when necessary (which at times is out of his control - see my statements about o-line).
     
  18. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I'm a Tannehill fan. If you don't believe me, check my Dolphin Survivor voting record. That said, I'll believe Tannehill is the QB that can take this team to the superbowl when he takes the team to a superbowl! Until then I'll continue believing he is a QB that has all the necessary skills and he's the guy we should have trying to get this team to the Superbowl. He's done everything right and is still improving. What more can you ask for in a young QB?
     
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  19. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Until he earns Omar Kelly's approval, he's dead to me.
     
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  20. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Mostly it's the wins. While wins are obviously a team stat and everybody knows the QB gets too much credit or blame for wins and losses, people will still judge QBs on wins. It's simplistic and stupid, but that's what people do.
     
  21. magicap

    magicap Shonuff

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    I rarely see people bashing RT. maybe the Omar Kelly nut huggers committee but that's about it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  22. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    There was a thread this summer about Freeman potentially beating out Tannehill.
     
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  23. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    The bashing reduced significantly during this camp.































    Hint: deep ball.
     
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  24. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah, but (at least in my experience) the VAST majority of threads on Tannehill (this offseason) don't involve people outright bashing Tannehill. I think those of you who defend him at every turn are seriously overestimating the amount of bashing against him.

    Basically, most of those who aren't yet sold on Tannehill tend to see him as an average QB, but still the best we've had since Marino, and with a very good surrounding cast fully capable of taking us into the playoffs. And given the Dolphins' sad history in the last decade or more, who can blame them?? Personally, I think he'll prove this year he's top 10 even to this "Tannehill is average" crowd.. we'll see.

    As far as the OP's question, people should note that the negativity this offseason is VASTLY reduced from last year. So what will it take? Just perform well enough that most fans think the problem lies elsewhere, even if we don't have a winning season. Yes, the QB has outsized influence on wins, but I think most fans can see when the problem isn't the QB. Well.. here's hoping 2015 is a year where not only does Tannehill perform well, but we have a winning season so that this (seemingly endless) debate about him begins to fade.
     
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  25. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Don't bet on that. The last guy that did that is still not believed, and all he did was come back and talk about peace, love and justice...
     
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  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Cbrad, you came around in December of 2014, or so I assume from your join date. Meaning, you missed two seasons worth of garbage in regards to Tannehill. People who myself and others are arguing with, want to now change the narrative to no one ever bashed Tannehill, and we're all making this stuff up. I'm telling you, it was almost constant, from long-time posters, to new accounts that now no longer post, it was a constant stream of rehashing disproven arguments: Tannhill can't throw a deep ball. Tannehill needs to get rid of the ball quicker. Tannehill takes too many sacks. Tannehill makes his oline look worse than it really is. Tannehill can't win big games. On and on and on. A few of us kept arguing these things, and got labeled homers. It's not that there are a ton of people that want Tannehill to fail...it's that there's a bunch of people who early on were not patient with a guy with 14 college starts, and expected, I guess, for Tannhill to come in and play like Dan Marino in his first season as a QB. When that didn't happen, there were plenty of people calling for Matt Moore to start, and claiming that we needed to draft another QB in the next draft.
     
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  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I was a lurker for quite a while resnor, so I'm fully aware of the garbage from back then. I pointed out in my post how this year has been very different.

    And while I agree a lot of that stuff was "garbage", there was still merit to many of the arguments because you can't really tease out exactly what was the QB's fault and what was not (as you like to point out it's a team game, and the QB is a member of that team).

    For example, there's no denying there were some blatant "deep" ball misses by Tannehill where the WR was totally open. My view is the few such throws just stuck in memory so well (some were really blatantly off) that it colored the perception of Tannehill unfairly. And thanks to many (including you), we showed that the problem was really a Tannehill-Wallace issue and not necessarily the deep ball per se.

    I also remember Tannehill taking sacks where he should have thrown the ball away. That happened quite a bit, but that's really improved. Yes, the OL was a problem back then (for sure!) but the QB was partly at fault for many sacks too, etc..

    So in general, I think that primarily because we fans don't have much patience (I totally agree on that issue), the problems were overblown and colored people's perception of Tannehill in a negative direction. But most of the problems identified WERE problems resnor, even if they should have been described in a more context-specific way.

    Now, what I cannot speak to and have no opinion of is to what degree certain posters have changed their stance without acknowledging it. I didn't read a lot of the "garbage" in detail so I never paid too much attention to who was saying what.
     
  28. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    On this board, and probably any fan board when it comes to the QB there are always 3 types of viewpoints and fans:


    Always Defend: No matter how bad or poorly they perform, this camp will always make excuses. They will cherry pick stats to make their QB look like Peyton Manning (there was actually a Chad Henne thread that did this). They will blame other players, coaches, system, etc.

    Objective: Self explanatory. Will point out flaws and strengths, but their perception of the QB is usually a fair one based on performance.

    The Prove it Club:
    Outside of an Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning type QBs this camp is always going to be negative to varying degrees about the QB until they prove it.


    We all think we are in the objective camp. But we are all fans, and being objective is hard. I'd say most of us, myself included, fall into one of the outer categories. I'm a pretty big Tannehill homer, but I think he's earned it.
     
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  29. USArmyFinFan

    USArmyFinFan Maximum Effort

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    I fall into the always defend group myself
     
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  30. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    You're forgetting the camp that refers to reasons as excuses, with negative connotation...they've been prevalent throughout recent years.
     
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  31. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I will admit I was one of those who wasn't high on Tannehill coming out of college. I preferred the Dolphins draft Kuechly in the first round and Wilson in the second round. While I still would have taken those two picks over Tannehill, I will admit Tannehill has certainly developed into a much better QB than I ever envisioned he would.

    I still have no idea if he is the type QB who can lead this team to a SB win. That will only be determined once the team actually first makes the playoffs and we see how he performs when he gets the team to that level.

    He has proved that he is the best QB the Dolphins have had since Marino and right now he is certainly in the top half of the starting QB's in the NFL. If he continues to develop as he has the last three years, I can see him being a top 7-8 QB in the league in the next few years.

    Tannehill has stated that he should be judged by his number of wins. While it is a team game, top tier QB's are able to consistently lead their teams to victory in the closing minutes of tight games. This is one area of the game Tannehill certainly needs to show his leadership skills more than he has the past three seasons.

    As a Dolphin fan, I am happy Tannehill is the QB of this team. He has proven to be a much more capable NFL QB then I thought he would be three years ago. I'll admit I was wrong about him. Now with the talent around him, he will hopefully prove me wrong in regards to me stating on several occasions that he would never lead the Dolphins to a Super Bowl victory.

    While there are still areas of his game which need to improve. The reality is that as Dolphin fans we are fortunate to have him as our teams QB and as much as I hated Ireland as the teams GM, even I will admit the drafting of Tannehill was by far the best pick Ireland ever made as the teams GM.
     
  32. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Peace, love, and justice. Sounds like a Liberal to me. I guess those Right Wingers would probably want to put him put him on a cross and leave him there. :up:
     
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  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Cbrad...one of things that I get accused of, is ignoring certain things, things that perhaps I referred to as "garbage." My issue has never been people pointing out flaws in Tannehill's game. It was that they pointed out these things, and acted as if they were set in stone, and would never get better, and used them as fuel for the argument that Tannehill would not be a successful, high profile QB. I do believe that there are flaws in his game...there are flaws in every QB's game. My arguments have always been about whether or not Tannehill was as bad as some painted him. A young QB, with very limited college starts, should not have the book written on him in the first two or three seasons. So, it's been very frustrating for me to see people do such things. I also take exception with some types of statements, like "the QB was responsible for many sacks." I watch the games. I don't see him being responsible for "many" sacks. Sure, there were some sacks here and there where I couldn't believe he took it. However, EVERY QB has that happen. I was livid, however, when I would see defenders coming from multiple places with only a four man rush. I could go on and on. I just think that too many people are looking for a "perfect" QB...as if that even exists.
     
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  34. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I think the "prove it club" will always come off as negative. That's why I disagree with the sentiment that anybody is overestimating the bashing of Tannehill. In my experience this board has far more "objective" posters than most, followed by "prove it" and least of all "always defend". In fact, I can't recall the last time I read a post about Tannehill that I would put in the "always defend" category. Usually you just have negative "prove it" posters calling "objective" posters homers.
     
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  35. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah, let's both note that I'm not one of those accusing you of not acknowledging any flaws in Tannehill's game. It's obvious that as a debate becomes centered on whatever the disagreements are, the points of agreement aren't acknowledged much (or even talked about).

    The "evaluating a QB in 3 years" thing is very interesting. I was a lurker here when Tannehill was picked. I remember a LOT of posters agreeing (mostly during that first offseason) that you can't evaluate him in one year or even two. Of course, once the season started all that went away and there were precious few that kept that stance. As I said, I didn't pay attention to who said what, but there was no question success/failure of the moment trumped a longer term outlook by most posters.

    Anyway, while I agree with you on the OL being primarily at fault for most of Tannehill's sacks, I'd still say there were "many" sacks where Tannehill deserves some fault. It's not a big issue in the grand scheme of things, but we'll have to disagree on that.
     
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  36. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Agree to disagree. There have simply been too many underperforming Dolphins over the years who have been defended fiercely for anyone to make the claim that most posters on this board are objective. As fans, we get too offended by the term "homer". That's why we are here. For the most part we are all Miami Dolphin Homers. We love this team, and defend it through thick and thin.

    If you go back and read historical threads the evidence is there. There are many posters on this board who always defend, regardless of track record or talent. There are many posters on this board who are mainly negative. And there is a large amount who float around in the middle, dipping in and out of the outer categories at times.
     
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  37. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Agree to disagree. I tend to put the extremist on ignore and have done so for years. I have far more on ignore that would fall into "always negative" category than I do in the "always positive" category. So my years of historical evidence reaches the opposite conclusion.
     
  38. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    That's because whether you realize it or not, you're much less likely to be angered enough to put someone on ignore who is eternally optimistic than someone whose overly negative. That's because, once again, there's really nothing at all wrong with being a homer. It's just another word for fan. We wouldn't be here if we weren't biased towards the Miami Dolphins.
     
  39. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    John Beck? I thought that guy was a Mormon... :shifty:








    :crapstrom:
     
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  40. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'm rarely angered by any posting. In fact, I can't remember a time when it's happened. It would take a personal attack for there to even be a chance that I'd be angered. I put people on ignore b/c I don't see much value in reading their posts. I find people who are always positive or negative a waste of time since there's no info or analysis. You basically know what they're going to say so I don't need to spend time reading their posts. So you're theory doesn't apply here since I'm not putting people on ignore due to anger. I'm doing it b/c they're repeating the same tripe. And in my experience here you get far more of that repetition from negative posters than positive ones. And it's not even close.
     
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