I'm sorry Rev and Chap but I gotta go there.. Greg Jennings..' I want to be know as a man of god'' Tannenbaum..'' Our coach is a strong christian as are many of our players'' Jennings...ok, id like to sign..'' its not like its a bad thing, but hey you use very advantage you get in the game..
Greg Jennings did not need to be informed of Joe Philbin's faith. Joe Philbin was his offensive coordinator for years in Green Bay. Jennings is basically saying that until Mike Tannenbaum stepped in and had an in-person conversation with Jennings, Miami wasn't really going to be the team he signs with. So in other words if it were just Joe Philbin, Dennis Hickey, Greg Jennings' agent and Greg Jennnings...no deal. Because Tannenbaum got involved, deal happened.
That would mean nothing to me. I know some very kind and honest Christians, but pct wise, the atheists I know or have known have been just as kind and honest. My best friend who passed away last year, was a totally an atheist, and a more decent, honest person has never walked the earth.
I know that would mean nothing to you personally b/c I know you consider yourself an atheist (I believe? Not trying to mischaracterize your beliefs)... but I'm not sure why you are drawing the distinction? Whether or not someone is a Christian or an atheist is not an accurate reflection on whether they are kind and honest. There is good and bad of both? Nothing from those quotes states anything regarding being kind and honest?
Off season Dolphins chatter thread part 5 OTAs You find chauvinism everywhere. Being from a certain nation, of a certain race, belonging to a certain club, believing in a certain religion equals "better." Nothing you can do about that kind of foolishness other than act consistently with the idea that goodness depends on the individual.
Personally I see kindness and honesty as character traits, good ones, rather than beliefs ..... whatever they might be.
Folks, I thank all of you for all the comments about faith, practice, and its possible impact on the team. As it relates to the team it belongs in this forum. However, there have been a couple of comments which seem to better belong in a thread in the Religion forum. If no more is said here we will simply move forward but if folks want to continue the discussion regarding religious beliefs, personality traits, and their practice, then I will pick all of the comments up and move them and we can have a fun, lively discussion there, OK?
That's right. So if someone quickly chooses to point out their religion to me, as if that is going to make me think that means they must be a good honest person, is a waste of time. So why does it even need to be brought up? I doubt Jennings signed with Miami due to the team have better Christians or more who believed in god BTW, I am not atheist. I am agnostic. I do not know if there is or is not a supreme being and neither do you or anyone else.
I am an atheist... also an agnostic. I'm agnostic for the same reason you are. I think many agnostics don't wish to identify themselves as 'atheist' simply because they don't want to associate themselves with outspoken atheists such as Christopher Hitchens, Bill Maher, the many atheists on YouTube who constantly curse and insult religious people, etc. However, if someone does not believe in any particular god, then they are technically an atheist. Hitchens, Maher, and the like are also anti-theist. Militantly so. That's all I will say about that... don't wanna derail this thread any more than I just did.
Since folks wanted to continue the discussion, I have created a thread for it here in the Religion forum. Thanks BTW, I think it should be generally irrelevant in any selection process for player or staff but I will recognize that folks like to work with people with whom they are comfortable. If they want to be around people of faith, they may well gravitate towards others. If they want to scrupulously avoid such folks they my move away. That is true for any of a number of personal "filters" for lack of a better word. In this case I think Jennings' familiarity with Philbin aided but did not determine him signing with the Phins. It took Tannebaum to close the deal.
First, my apologies about the mischaracterization of your stance on religion. We had discussed religion about a year or so ago on here, and I remember you stating your stance... but was hazy on exactly what it was... which is why I put that caveat in there originally. As far as the latter part of your post... where did DJ say anything about religion making them good/honest people. DJ simply said that the religious beliefs of Jennings and Philbin aligned to be an advantage in the recruitment process. Literally not one mention of "good" or "honest"... so what caused you to "go there", if you will? There has been a lot of talk on here about Philbin being strong in faith, and that interview by Jennings appeared to imply the same thing. I'm not sure why sharing interests with your potential boss, especially something like strong religious beliefs that typically are a big part of your life, wouldn't be a little enticing/comforting? As far as my beliefs, personally I strongly do believe God exsits, with specific events in my life where I know God was involved. But I'll never tell someone else what to believe or not to believe.
As I've stated before, I'm a non-religious person, but I don't think that religion, one way or another, should have any bearing on who a team chooses to bring in as a player or coach. There are good and bad people of every group, and belonging to one or another makes no difference in how someone will behave and conduct themselves. That being said, there are obviously those in every group who choose to stigmatize those who are outside of their circle as being lesser or wrong. I've seen plenty of cases where a guy will say that so and so is a "good christian player" or something to that nature, heavily implying that he's more desirable because of that, and it turns my stomach. Choosing one player over another because of their religious choices is bigotry, frankly.
I understand your point and generally agree. What this case highlighted was another aspect of the discussion though. If you are doing the hiring because of faith or for that matter, gender, race, or any of a host of different criteria instead of who might be best for the job, then claims of bigotry may well be warranted. But what about the person who is seeking a position? If the ball is in my court as the employee, is it all right to seek a work environment where my religious sensitivities (or again for that matter, gender. race, etc.) are valued? I have spoken to a number of well trained, educated black people who when seeking employment, seek places where there are already a number of other black employees so they might have a social group. Women have made similar claims. Who wants to be the only "anything" some where? Is Greg Jennings "allowed" to make his selection of who to play for (assuming a number of offers are similar) by whatever criteria he desires? Even a place where his particular religious sensibilities are valued? To that I would have to say yes as well. Now none of us know whether or not that was even a factor in this case but the discussion raises important points anyway.
I think that's fair and don't think anyone is down on Jennings (or anyone) for wanting to work somewhere with like minded people. There are, however, laws against the employer looking for employees with a certain religious affiliation.
I've defended Philbin, but if he is guilty of hiring by religious leaning, then he should be fired. Also, I just reread my post, and apologize if it comes across as me telling you something you didn't know. Obviously you know about those laws.
