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Sources - Dolphins thinking WR in 1st or 2nd round, in no hurry to sign a veteran WR

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Phins Up Wins Up, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-dolphins-free-agency-0323-20150322-story.html

    http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachp...ins-considering-drafting-a-receiver-at-no-14/

    Omar Kelly and some other sources are reporting that the Dolphins with their 1st round pick might go WR and they are in no hurry to sign a veteran WR. They want to sign a veteran but may wait until after the draft and see how things shake out first. Devante Parker, DGB, and Strong project to be there. Slim chance Cooper or White are there. They could actually trade back and get another pick and still get one of those guys. The Dolphins like the team's young trio of Landry, Stills, and Matthews at WR. There are concerns that bringing in a veteran WR who wants a big role could stunt the growth of the young guys and the team's rookie receiver they get from the draft. The more I think about it if a veteran like Crabtree came to Miami and was expecting the ball a lot and started complaining that could take too much away from the young guys. A veteran would have to understand their role with the team and they probably won't be a big time #1 option. Crabtree wants to resurrect his career. I'm sure he is thinking big next season. He probably wants the ball almost every throw. I like Matthews as the #4 WR. I think that is the perfect role for him in the NFL. Had a pretty good season in 2013 but last year the team let him rot on the bench. I like Stills as the deep threat and Landry as the slot. This team really just needs a #1 WR. Hopefully they can get that in the draft. Could Parker, DGB, or Strong be that guy? Or do they even need a big time #1? Maybe a more balanced passing attack with Stills, Landry, Matthews, and whoever they draft? Not to mention they got a top 5 tight end in the league Jordan Cameron. Maybe they don't need a Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas, or AJ Green big time WR.

    If they aren't high on Parker they could trade back and get DGB or Strong. Or even go MLB Kendricks in the 1st and a WR in the 2nd round. I'm actually hoping they trade back and get another pick or 2 assuming Cooper or White doesn't fall to 14.
     
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  2. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Considering that neither Julio Jones nor Dez Bryant nor Demaryius Thomas nor AJ Green nor Calvin Johnson made the conference championship round of the Play-offs, I question how important it is to funnel the majority of your offense through a primary WR. I think it's more important to have an Andrew Luck or a Tom Brady or an Aaron Rodgers or play for the Seahawks in general. ;)

    It's no secret that Miami needs another WR. Everyone knows that. It's not news. The question is about value. However, with Cooper and White off the board, I don't like any of the other WR options at pick #14 which means the Dolphins would have to trade down to get good value. That means we probably won't know until draft day what the team is thinking nor how the draft will fall.
     
  3. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If we want to move up--which is highly unlikely--we have to try and get from #14 to #9 or #10 in my view. Without a 3rd rounder, that could be too expensive for us.

    If we are looking at the back-half of the 1st round with the thought of trading back, this is how it looks (I've indicated some of the teams that could conceivably take a WR):

    14) Dolphins
    15) 49ers (WR)
    16) Texans
    17) Chargers
    18) Chiefs (WR)
    19) Browns (WR)
    20) Eagles
    21) Bengals (WR)
    22) Steelers
    23) Lions
    24) Cardinals
    25) Panthers (WR)
    26) Ravens (WR)
    27) Cowboys
    28) Broncos
    29) Colts
    30) Packers
    31) Saints (WR)
    32) Patriots


    If you're thinking WR, I think you can bank on either falling a few spots to #17 (maybe the Chargers move up for a RB) or falling all the way to #24 (maybe the Cardinals move up for Danny Shelton or Trae Waynes?).
     
  4. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    49ers I think could go MLB with Willis and Borland both retiring. They signed Torrey Smith so WR is not a desperate need. Chargers I think could go Melvin Gordon. They lost Matthews. Their RBs right now aren't looking too good. Chiefs you never know. The last 2-3 years they should have drafted a WR in the 1st round but never did plus they have Maclin now. So if they have other needs maybe they draft another position. You're right WR could be in play round 1 for those teams but I wouldn't be surprised if they went another position. Hopefully they can trade back in that 19-23 range. WR is never really a hot commodity in the 1st round though. Hopefully at least one of Strong and DGB are still there. Strong 6'4 and a 4.4 40. and DGB 6'6 and a 4.49 40 that tall receiver the team needs. Hope they can trade back and get an additional 2nd or 3rd round pick.
     
  5. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Niners need a wideout desperately. They need linebackers too and will probably choose whoever is highest on the board for them between those two positions. If you are trading down, be prepared to lose the next best receiver to them.

    I like the youth movement, and having a bunch of guys willing to share the ball from Tannehill is good, but I would be reluctant to have a rookie WR be the solution as a #1. There is something to be said about a veteran who can run routes and get himself open. Landry is good at that and could probably handle the role, but until he proves it, bringing in a vet on a one or two year deal seems like the right move to captain a young and hungry group.
     
  6. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I want Kendricks or Waynes. I doubt Waynes will be there, but if he is, I am leaning that way.
     
  7. jorser

    jorser Well-Known Member

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    Agreed DG. Brandon Scherff or La'el Collins makes much more sense for my money. We haven't done anything to fortify our biggest area of concern as we progress through this, or countless other off seasons. Add a veteran WR to mentor the youth there and we will be more than fine. There are only so many balls to go around. Few seem to be focusing on how paramount it is to protect RT. He has been HAMMERED the last two years and it has to stop if we want him to take another step, and for this offense to succeed. I highly doubt Tannebaum will allow the neglect at the position, the line as a whole, to continue one more year. Couple all of this with the fact you have a huge question mark as to when, if, and how well Branden Albert recovers from his knee only underscores that all signs point to OL at #14. Say what you will about taking another OL with the first pick, drafting an OG at 14,or pouring more high value resources and $ in to the OL, but this is the need, this is likely where we will have value awaiting us, and it makes the most sense given everything that has transpired, or better, not transpired in free agency to date. Look at Dallas and where their high picks have all been allocated of late. What does Dallas do well?? If you draft Scherff or Collins you have the ability to play either at RT on day 1 while James holds down LT, until Albert is 100%. Then move that player to his permanent interior spot and you are set for a good while. Position flexibility. Of course you are using Walton, Thomas, or another band-aid FA at one guard spot until such time, but I would rather have the perimeters in the best shape possible and protect against any further delays in Albert's return. BTW, this logic also allows the potential to move James permanently to LT, and Scherff or Collins permanently to RT if Albert can't stay healthy, or is deemed too expensive in another year or so. He is already on the other side of 30.
     
  8. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're probably right, I forgot that the 49ers signed Torrey Smith. They probably won't go WR in the first.

    I also just saw that the Browns signed Dwayne Bowe. So with he and Hartline in FA, they won't go WR in the first either.
     
  9. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Translation: "Dear Crabtree - we have negotiating leverage."
     
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  10. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't really buy this line of thinking. Teams will often draft players that don't necessarily fit glaring needs. WR specifically, because its pretty rare that you have 2-3 guys you don't want to lose any snaps.
     
  11. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The probability of drafting a WR is never going to be 0, but it wouldn't make much sense for either team.


    The 49ers could go anywhere but with Torrey Smith being the featured guy now along with Vernon Davis and Anquan Boldin still on the roster and depth like Jerome Simpson and Bruce Ellington, they'll be anxious to fill the other holes at this point. Plus, there simply won't be any WRs available to the 49ers in the 2nd half of the 1st round that will be more appealing than what else in on the board that could help them.

    The Browns also have a ton of holes and added 2 starting calibers WRs within the last few weeks (Bowe & Hartline) and depth in Andrew Hawkins and Travis Benjamin, why would they draft a 1st round WR? That doesn't make any sense.
     
  12. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    This isn't how it works in practice though. The Rams didn't need a WR when they drafted Tavon Austin. Houston didn't need one when they drafted Hopkins. The Giants didn't need one when they drafted Odell Beckham. The Saints didn't need one when they drafted Brandin Cooks. Etc., Etc.
     
  13. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Actually all those teams needed a WR. Houston at the time needed another receiver opposite of Andre Johnson. They had peanuts for WRs with the exception of Johnson and never could get that #2 guy to relieve some of the defensive attention away from Johnson although Hopkins is looking good as of late. Plus with Johnson's age and departure/retirement imminent they needed to draft a WR. And now with Johnson gone good thing they drafted a WR. Rams don't need a WR? Who do they have on their team? Who have they had the last couple of years at WR to say they don't need one? The Giants needed a WR. Hakeem Nicks never panned out and had injury issues. Victor Cruz isn't an elite WR so they needed a WR to pair up with Cruz. To me the Saints needed a WR. Since Brees has been in New Orleans he has never had an elite WR to go along with Jimmy Graham. He had Devery Henderson, Colston, Moore, and a bunch of receivers that were just complimentary guys. They needed a talented WR. Thats why they had to draft Stills and Cooks.
     
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  14. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Danny Shelton please... Best interior in the NFL, by a country mile. Perryman in round 2. One monster and one thumper.
     
  15. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    For me I want DGB, Strong, Kendricks, or Waynes. If Waynes isn't there then trade back and get one of those other guys.
     
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  16. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    They will get a veteran but maybe not until after the draft. What I'm saying is they don't need one of the best veteran options like Crabtree who could stunt the growth of the younger players because he wants the ball a lot. Whoever the veteran is they need to know that the young guys and their development are the priority. They need to accept that type of role.
     
  17. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    agree. if we really wanted a young WR, then maybe we can trade down and recoup our 3rd round pick. I'd still rather pick a CB at 14 if a good one is available.
     
  18. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    I really think they should trade down in the 1st and get back a 3rd rounder. If you trade down with, let's say the Steelers to the 22nd pick, who need DT badly, you can potentially get a 3rd and 5th out of it.

    Then pick best player available at 22nd, biggest candidates being the 2 RBs Gurley and Gordon, maybe a sliding defensive player, then look for secondary help in the 2nd, or an ILB. Then look for WR in the 3rd where I think there could be some talent and value this year.

    Heck, having 3 5th rounders then can even help you move up in the 3rd if you're nervous and/or a big value WR target is there still.
     
  19. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The question is...do the Dolphins have the nerve to pull that kind of thing off on draft day? Is that the kind of mentality that Tannenbaum is going to bring here?

    I don't know about you but when I think of trading down and leaving talent on the baord, my palms start sweating. :)

    It'll be a fun draft day no matter how things go!
     
  20. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    It's a risk, no doubt. But if you're confident in your skills at selecting talent for value, then why not.
     
  21. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agreed...at the end of the day, it's not what you did in any 1 round of the draft, it's how you got value compared to the rest of the league over an extended period.

    How long has it been since Miami went into a draft feeling good about drafting so many different positions?! :)

    For the first time in a long time, I'm going to be content with almost any of the names that are out there from Gordon to Gurley, Waynes to Shelton to Kendricks, Parker to Strong to OGB.
     
  22. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    I could go Rashad Greene in the 2nd.
     
  23. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Don't take this the wrong way but that sounds exactly like something Ireland would do. Personally I think we have spent too much time over the last decade worrying about whether a player is good value at the spot and not enough time worrying about whether they are a good value to the team. Last year when we picked James a number of pundits felt we over valued him but he stepped in day one and contributed. To me that's more valuable than recouping a traded pick.
     
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  24. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. And then you have to look at Hickey's first draft. It's only one draft so admittedly not a big sample-size, but a few things to look at that maybe help to indicate his modus operandi or inclinations. Safe pick in the first; two separate trade downs in the 2nd, followed by a trade up in the third; some small school talent. Hickey not only got a good player with his first rounder in Ja'wuan James, but got good value in the 2nd and 3rd with Landry and Billy Turner, and also got an additional 5th rounder on top of it.

    He might be thinking similarly this time around.
     
  25. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Well it only fails if you f*ck up the pick after trading down. Then you're not only left with the "might have been" talent you passed, but the "f*cked up" talent you picked. Hickey traded down twice with his 2nd round pick after James, and ended up with Landry, Billy Turner and another 5th round pick. It can work if you get it right.
     
  26. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought we drafted 3 team captains last year. CK corrected me. It was six. Seriously, it's a factor for Hickey. Cooper for instance is a team captain.
     
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  27. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    That too, I forgot about that.
     
  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    So the Houston Texans with Andre Johnson and Kevin Walter needed a WR.

    The Giants with Victor Cruz and Reuben Randle needed a WR.

    The NO Saints with Kenny Stills and Marques Colston needed a WR.

    But the Cleveland Browns won't draft a WR because they have Dwayne Bowe and Brian Hartline???

    The 49ers won't draft a WR because they have Torrey Smith and a 34 yr old Anquan Boldin???

    I have absolutely no problem drafting a WR in the first round, but the logic you're using isn't very good IMO. I think if Miami wants a guy like Amari Cooper, they're going to have to trade up (which I'm not opposed to).
     
  29. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Which means we are drafting a Guard
     
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  30. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    Trade down is definitely the way to go if there's no slam dunk available at 14. The team is hurting for depth at multiple positions, the salary cap for 2016-17 is already problematic, adding younger/cheaper players will be vital.
     
  31. Piston Honda

    Piston Honda Well-Known Member

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    I'd crack the flat screen if we went OL in round 1, and FTR I was begging for OL in the first the last two years so it's not an issue of liking the sexier picks. CB, MLB, edge rusher, WR if there's a stud available or trade down.
     
  32. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    We all know you like the sexier stuff Piston :wink2:

    Might be a good way to get the wife to let you get that 70" LED:yes:
     
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  33. normaldude

    normaldude Active Member

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    I do not think DGB or Jaelen Strong are worth 1st rd picks.


    Dorial Green-Beckham is a physical freak. But his college stats were mediocre, he has a poor work ethic, poor route runner, drug arrests, beats up women, red flags all over. If we're going to pickup a physical freak WR, I'd rather use a 4th rd pick on Darren Waller or Chris Conley, than use a 1st rd pick on DGB.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1850793/darren-waller

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/darren-waller?id=2552408

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1824756/chris-conley

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/chris-conley?id=2552652


    Jaelen Strong seems to be a big guy who is really good at heading in one direction. But all scouting reports note that he has a lack of suddeness & quickness, and a poor ability to separate. Then I watch him on film, and he does seem to struggle making an explosive cutback. And then for a test of agility, if you add their 3-cone & 20 yd shuttle times together, you get..

    Amari Cooper: 10.69
    Kevin White: 11.06
    Darren Waller: 11.32
    Dorial Green-Beckham: 11.34
    Chris Conley: 11.36
    Jaelen Strong: 11.52

    I know that some athletes simply test poorly. But when all the scouting reports, all the film, and all the agility tests, all point towards the same thing (inability to make explosive cutbacks, and separate), I think it's a huge red flag. At the NFL level, inability to separate could be disastrous.
     
  34. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Outside of Amari Cooper and Kevin White, I don't really care if any of the other WRs wind up Dolphins. There's very few players that don't have big question marks or limitations one way or another. If Miami had plans to ship out Dion Jordan as part of a trade to move up and get one of those top WRs, no one would blame them, but outside of something big like that, it's hard to get too excited about the other WRs. Then again, I didn't think Jarvis Landry would turn out like he has.

    This is why I've been saying that most every WR is going to be a reach for Miami if we select one in the 1st round. This draft might be deep at WR but it doesn't mean they all have to go high in the draft. Most of the WRs not named Amari Cooper and Kevin White really seem like 2nd and 3rd round picks to me.

    If we're limited to offensive players, I would happily take Todd Gurley or Melvin Gordon before any of the WRs not named Cooper or White. I think both RBs are simply much more talented football players who can have immediate impact and will thus both be deservedly drafted in the 1st round.
     
  35. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Eh...don't be so contentious. You made your point, it might be time to move along. I don't think this is worthy of an argument. Yes, the Browns and 49ers very well might take a WR but anyone who watches the game can see that it's very unlikely they will. But yes, you're right, it is possible.

    There's a story that goes along with every one of those picks you named and I don't think any of them were bad picks. But the 49ers picking a WR at #15? Who in this draft is worthy of that pick? They surely aren't getting Amari Cooper or Kevin White with that pick! And the Browns pick comes after that!

    The biggest link between most of those teams was that they were pretty solid rosters under good coaching and leadership. It's pretty easy to feel comfortable picking WR if you're coaching is Sean Payton and your QB is Drew Brees. I think the Saints picked Cooks based on value at #20. However, the Saints spread the ball around and value depth at WR, we all know that. Neither the Browns nor the 49ers are really pass-happy teams that do that, nor are they powerful offenses under the leadership of a great HC or OC.

    Tavon Austin went to the Rams where HC Jeff Fisher provided stability and a quality defense so Tavon Austin made some sense as a complimentary piece. Maybe teams should draft that way and maybe they shouldn't but at least there is logic to back up that pick. Neither the Browns nor the 49ers have stability at HC. Both need to add talent in the trenches. Both need to bolster their running games. Both look like questionable defensive units as well.

    Odell Beckham Jr. went to a team with very stable ownership, a very qualified HC, a franchise QB and was himself one of the best WRs in the draft (he was picked at #12 after all). That isn't much of a surprise pick honestly.



    So, while there was logic and value in all the guys you named (Austin, Hopkins, Cooks and Beckham) I don't see the logic in saying the 49ers or the Browns are going to take a WR. It's possible but there's very little logic to back it up quite honestly. Where is the value? It's just not there for either team.



    But as I said, agree to disagree. There really isn't debate happening. If you think the 49ers and Browns are likely to take a WR, good for you. I'll be more than happy to eat crow if they do! ;)
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If you look at history with the Bucs especially since he took the job he described as running the draft for Mark Dominik, the history of him taking captain types is just as strong or stronger.

    Gotta remember many teams don't have yearly captains. They have game captains, leadership councils, etc. If you broaden the definition on that basis, there are usually only one or two guys Hickey takes a chance on every year, and it's usually not early.
     
  37. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    If Breshad Perriman falls to us in round 2 and we pass on him... I quit.
     
  38. Phins Up Wins Up

    Phins Up Wins Up Banned

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    Kevin Walter?????? LOL!! That guy had 2 ok seasons and never enough to be a #2 guy. Only in 2 seasons did he get over 650 yards. Come on.

    Cruz is injury prone and Randle is not any kind of elite talent at WR to where drafting a WR in the 1st round is off limits. Randle never really did anything until this past season. 2012 he had a whopping 19 catches for 298 yards. 2013 he had 41 catches for 611 yards. With those 2 guys you're not drafting a WR?

    Colston is a complimentary player. He is not a big time WR. He is good for your #3 at best #2 WR. The Saints were looking for an elite WR. You think Colston fits that bill?

    As for the Cleveland Browns post that wasn't me. It was another poster saying that. No the 49ers don't desperately need a WR in the 1st round considering all the holes they have on their team. Have you seen all the players they've lost this offseason??!! It is a train wreck. They could probably draft any position and it would upgrade their team. They have needs every where. Yes it is a possibility they could go WR in the 1st round and I said that but they could go multiple positions in the 1st. It is not a given they go WR in the 1st round like you stated.

    No man your logic isn't very good. I can't believe you wouldn't go WR in the 1st round because you would rather stick with guys like Walter, Randle, Colston as the team's primary options.
     

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