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Danielle Hunter- DE, LSU

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by ToddPhin, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    If this kid had better speed off the edge he's perhaps a top 5 pick. So where does that put him? I'm thinking potentially top 20.

    Keep in mind he's still 19 in most of these clips, as he didn't turn 20 until late October. He's listed at 6'6 240. From those numbers and his young age, you'd expect to see a long skinny defender who lacks stoutness at the POA and gets pushed around, but he's anything but weak and plays more like he's 265. He physically looks like a young JPP or a leaner Chander Jones.

    Also keep him mind when watching these clips that Olivier Vernon disappointingly totaled just 1 sack all season on 1st & 2nd down.... as well as has ZERO fumble recoveries, ZERO passed deflected [the equivalent of a sack but without the lost yardage], and a mere 3 forced fumbles in 3 years.... so try not to get lost in thinking about any pass rush we'd be "losing out on" with Vernon off the field and instead think of what Hunter brings to the table on 1st & 2nd down that Vernon doesn't, including improved run support which I didn't mention. Hunter had 73 tackles and 13 TFLs this year at DE, and he wasn't always on the field on passing downs, was rarely used wider than 7-technique, and it seems like LSU didn't place much emphasis on developing him as a pass rusher, instead preferring to develop him as an edge defender. Posted 57 tkls, 8 TFL [2nd on LSU], and 3 sacks [2nd on LSU] as an 18 year old sophomore. Hunter was also on an LSU defense that oddly ranked 103rd in FBS in sacks, good for dead last in the SEC, and featured just 1 player with more than 2 sacks [Jermauria Rasco had 4], so perhaps there's more than meets the eye here with Hunter's 1.5 sacks in addition to LSU not emphasizing his pass rush development. Chandler Jones didn't post more than 4.5 sacks in a season at Syracuse, and JPP had just 6 as a junior, so the numbers don't always tell the whole story.

    One thing I will say when it comes to Hunter's pass rush potential at the next level is that he seems to feel comfortable playing the B-gap inside the LT, and he has great length, uses that length well, keeps his feet churning effectively through contact [which I always take notice of], plays with leverage & balance, packs a surprisingly powerful jolt, is aware of passes and passing lanes and thus can be used as a spy [twice batted 3 passes in a game this year, the equivalent of 6 additional sacks], has a nifty spin move that he can execute in a phone booth, and is athletic, sudden, can COD well, and displays good pursuit ability for his size and thus should be able to contain QBs escaping up the middle from pressure, so I don't see why he couldn't move inside in nickel to make way for a better edge-rusher which isn't uncommon in the NFL. I could see the tall, athletic, long-armed duo of Hunter & Dion Jordan working the middle in nickel while Wake & Vernon come off the edge.

    vs Alabama
    [video=youtube;qmXbsbrUCok]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXbsbrUCok#t=50[/video]
    Hunter is #94, always at RDE [occasionally standing up] unless otherwise noted.
    1. 0:45-
    immediately reacts and COD's abruptly to be in position to make the TFL [if not dropped by Cooper].
    2. 1:06- breaking down in space. 1-on-1 w/ the athletic Blake Sims. Hunter engulfs him.
    3. 1:25- nimbly skirts around the block by RB Travis Henry, then immediately reads the pass and swats it down for terminal play #1 [terminal as in a sack, INT, PD, or forced fumble that effectively prevents a play from being carried out]. I notice Hunter is often either playing outside contain or is shadowing backs or QBs, which would explain his low sacks numbers.
    4. 2:37- 2nd & 1. He's now the strong-side end with run stop responsibility on this short yardage down. Displays impressive twitchiness to elude the LT's block attempt. If this were actually a run, Hunter just put himself in position to stuff Travis Henry for no gain. Well done.
    5. 3:00- batted pass on 3rd & 10 after reading the QB and avoiding the LT's attempt to take out his feet. Terminal play #2.
    6. 3:52- Bama sells this as a run. Hunter beats the LT off the snap and abruptly dips around him to contain the edge. If this were a run, Hunter drops it for a 5 yard loss. Impressive. Then after realizing it's a pass, rather than standing around watching the QB who is running away from him, he becomes cognizant of a throw back to the RB regardless of how unlikely, if not impossible, it would've been.
    7. 4:42- keeps the LT off him and then tries to chase this catch down from behind.
    8. 6:11- LT tries to cut him while simultaneously chipped by the TE. Hunter defeats it and is ready to deflect the pass. Natural ability.
    9. 6:19- Just when you think Hunter doesn't have a pass rush, he whips out this nifty spin move. He looks like he's moving slowly in pursuit, but in reality he's a long strider who covers more ground with fewer steps. After the spin, it takes him 5 steps to reach Sims. If this is a normal drop rather than Sims shading a step to his right away from the edge-rusher like he and other mobile college QBs frequently do when throwing to the right side of the field, this is probably a sack. Another reason for reduced sack numbers.
    10. 7:01- drops in coverage, reads the QB, and swats the pass on 3rd & 1 to kill another drive. Terminal play #3. Hunter now has as many terminal plays in 1 game as Olivier Vernon has had in 3 years.
    11. 7:09- Uses a broad combination of power, leverage, getting skinny, balance, athleticism, and then closing ability on this one play to fight through a congested middle for a potential sack.
    12. 7:19- Lined up at right DT on 3rd & 12. Tracks Sim's eyes looking left and immediately jumps into the passing lane. Nearly bats this one down too.
    13. 7:39- essentially another terminal play. Initially gets stoned but recognizes the quick pass to his right. Rips the LT off of himself and uses the act to help propel him into the passing lane and thus force an incompletion. Well done.
    14. 7:47- Reads this WR screen to the opposite sideline and disengages from the LT. Quickly gets around the clutter to pursue this from the backside with a nice angle taken. Hunter's effort wasn't needed on this particular play, but it could very well save a huge play another time.
    15. 10:28- Bama employs some tackle-elligible trickery that fools everyone. Hunter recognizes it and hustles 25 yards downfield and, rather than tackling the ball carrier from behind and carrying him into the end zone like we've seen so many times before, he gets behind it and stalls this massive TE's momentum at the goal line.

    Auburn 12 tackle game
    [video=youtube;4pMd49umyis]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pMd49umyis[/video]
    1. 0:00- stands up the massive pulling RG, throws him aside with authority and makes the athletic tackle. damn.
    2. 0:08- nice spin move inside after being forced to play the read-opion threat first [another reason for reduced sacks]. He could use this as an interior nickel rusher in the NFL b/c he can make this spin in the space of a phone booth.
    3. 0:28- powerfully stands up the RG behind the LOS to clog up this run for no gain.
    4. 1:55- beautiful. receives the double whammy by getting chipped and then cut block. Most DEs would've been defeated by this. Hunter miraculously keeps his feet, chases it to the sideline, and breaks down in space at the end to contain it for minimal gain.
    5. 2:49- great play recognition. Knifes into the backfield on an arm-over for the TFL.
    6. 3:02- nice job helping to stop this 3rd & 2 run. Like much of his snaps, his shoulders are over his feet while the play unfolds as he plays with enough balance and composure to redirect and make plays that aren't headed the way he's initially headed rather than coming off the ball too fast and too hard to where he gets caught in no man's land like we often see from DEs.
    7. 4:34- holds his ground against the charging FB to stuff this for minimal gain.

    Miss St
    [video=youtube;TLmu2MX6qfs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLmu2MX6qfs[/video]
    1. 0:37- no sack on the play but he flashes some real potential here that we previously didn't know existed.
    2. 0:46- rocks back the LT with his initial jolt.
    3. 1:13- sack. nice mix of power and athleticism that flashes further potential.
    4. 2:32- drives the LT back into the QB. keeps his legs churning.
    5. 2:55- my boy Kwon Alexander rips the ball out that Hunter attentively returns for a TD.
    6. 4:54- walks the LT back into the QB.
    7. 5:25- nicely walks the LT back with his right arm to open up the inside angle to the QB, but Hunter gets held. Still manages to make an impressive diving attempt, to no avail though... but look how much grass he covers on this dive! Imagine when he's able to rush the QB more often in the NFL and is able to start using that reach and athleticism to swipe at or hammer down on the QB's arm or hand to force fumbles, something Olivier Vernon has done just 3 times in 3 years.
    8. 5:54- first smothers this inside to stuff any potential run for a safety, then quickly disengages and bends around the o-line to force the QB to run. 1st round caliber play.
    9. 6:07- double team by FB and pulling RG that Hunter pushes back into the QB.
    10. 6:24- disengages from the RT for a cat-like diving tackle back to the inside.
    11. 6:30- Are you kidding me? Uses his length, leverage, and natural power to hold up the RT with his right arm while fighting through the center who's double-teaming him on his knees to his left. Doesn't lose an inch or his balance. What 19 year old DE does this against SEC linemen?
    12. 7:18- hustles to chase this run 20 yards downfield. Rarely if ever see this kid not hustling.
    13. 7:43- disengages from the LT, changes directions, and gets back on top of this critical 3rd & 8 run in a hurry for the assist if needed.
    14. 7:51- now he's running 25 yards laterally across field trying to track this one. Kid should've already been worn out by now in this game.
    15. 7:59- chasing after another one across the field.
    16. 8:27- still has the energy to physically stand up the fresh body at LT, then pushes him off with his right arm in order to help stuff the play back to his inside.
    17. 8:39- beats the LT off the snap, walks him down the line, throws him aside, and stuffs the 3rd down run attempt. This is the same drive that he's been exerting himself heavily on yet still has enough in the tank here for back-to-back critical stops in the redzone.

    To me, this is a sound young 20 year old with gobs of talent who might never become an elite pass rusher but offers a complete enough game to warrant a top 20 pick and with the potential to become an 8-10 sack per season guy once he's finally able to focus more on that part of the game. At his size and length, as this kid continues getting bigger and stronger, he should be able to develop other moves and be able to rely more on power and speed-to-power stuff in order to post respectable sack numbers without needing to start fires under his feet running the arch. IMO he compares favorably to Chandler Jones who had a year and a half on Hunter when he was drafted. Additionally, Jones was allowed to focus more on being a pass rusher with Syracuse's scheme frequently having him work aggressively into the backfield, as well as having him line up wider than 7-technique which LSU rarely if ever did with Hunter. I think once you start giving Hunter some reps at 9-technique and angled toward the backfield, you'll start seeing a whole new element of his game open up.

    Here's Chandler Jones for comparison. Notice the difference in Syracuse's concerted effort to use him as a pass rusher and in wider alignments compared to what LSU did with Hunter. I'm not saying he's my first choice in round 1 but I think he enters consideration.
    [video=youtube;nhrBNt85BZc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhrBNt85BZc[/video]
     
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  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Really think you need to switch approaches to doing direct links to YouTube time stamps.
     
  3. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I did it this way in order to keep the video and descriptions within eyeshot so you don't have to click back and forth between windows. Maybe it's a Macbook thing or something but I can move my cursor to the desired times in the video much faster & easier than it takes me to click the link, have it open, wait for the commercial, bounce back and forth between the pages if I wanna read the play while the video is going.... then close the window when the play is done, locate the next link, and rinse-repeat.

    After finishing with the 0:08 play, I'm able to immediately move my cursor to the next play at 0:28 like below so that I can continue reading the description below it simultaneously.... and when that play finishes, I can immediately move my cursor to the 1:55 play like so, then the 2:49 play, and so on.
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I dunno, just the whole list of times for you to fast-forward to on your own thing, doesn't work for me for whatever reason. I'd rather read the description of what you're seeing on a play then have a clickable link, and watch the play, then exit the new tab that just opened up to watch the play. My personal preference.
     
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  5. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    Pretty advance for a 20yrs old. I do wonder about his ultimate ceiling. Do you treat his draft like the MLB and take him high day one? or low risk high reward day two or three?
     
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  6. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I think it depends on how quickly you believe you can transition him as a pass rusher b/c he's developmentally behind here b/c of how LSU used him. Working in Hunter's favor: the game seems to come naturally to him IMO; his instincts and awareness are sound; he seems to have done a great job performing the edge contain role LSU put him in [rather than an aggressive, edge rushing/penetrating role like Vic Beasley & Shane Ray were in]; he seems to be a competitive, high effort player so I could envision him being responsive to developing his trade; and he has a lot of natural talent & athleticism to assist him while making the transition. If he's not getting a sack, he can at least disrupt passing lanes and bat down throws, so maybe he amasses just 4 sacks as a rookie but also bats down 4 passes for a respectable total of 8 killed plays.... or something like that.... provided Coyle doesn't try to move him to defensive tackle or safety.

    Pick 14 might be a little high b/c of Hunter's lack of pass rush polish, but if we found ourselves in a trade down scenario, I think you'd have to consider him in the 20's b/c of his long term potential, as he's the kind of player who becomes a cornerstone piece of the defense. Plus, the majority of 1st round pass rushers don't set the league on fire as a rookie anyways. DE's with Hunter's length & athleticism are fairly rare in the NFL and frequently lead to a player who is a much better pro than was in college as he puts it all together and starts wearing his big boy pants like we saw Pierre-Paul who blossomed from 6 sacks at USF to 16.5 in the NFL 2 years later... and JJ Watt who skyrocketed from 7 sacks at Wisconsin to 20.5 two years later.
     
  7. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I'll fix it here shortly Chris.
     

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