2015 Draft Class: Linebackers

I really think that a run stopper needs a little beef to him. Love the size of Taiwan Jones and Curtis Grant.

 

Its an underwhelming class, Am I the only one that would take Dawson over Stephone Anthony..?

I mean Anthony will have some measurable that will test well because of his athleticism, but, no thanks.

 

I really want this to be an improved position for us and it would be if Misi could just stay healthy, but it is foolish to expect that. True also that if we somehow get dramatically improved DL play that our current LB's can look better.

 

if Perryman is there in the 2nd gotta take him..

 

Nice rundown, appreciate the work.

I'm personally intrigued by the likes of Shaq Thompson, Eric Kendricks, Bernardrick McKinney, Paul Dawson, Denzel Perryman, Kwon Alexander, Mike Hull, Taiwan Jones, Alani Fua, A.J. Johnson, Jake Ryan and John Timu.

There are some other UDFA types to pay attention to like Henry Coley of Virginia, Terrance Plummer of UCF, D.J. Welter of LSU, Reshard Cliett of South Florida, Maurice Falls of East Carolina, Michael Orakpo of Texas State, Chi Chi Ariguzo of Northwestern and Mark Nzeocha of Wyoming.

Some of those guys are big slobberknockers whose speed and viability for nickel you've got to question (Coley, Plummer, Ariguzo)...and some of them have intriguing athleticism and/or coverage skills (Welter, Cliett, Falls, Nzeocha).

 

Apparently not, since Keith has Dawson as a 2nd and Anthony as a 3rd.

 

What can Perryman do for you that Anthony, Taiwan Jones or Curtis Grant can't?

 

That's my issue with all of the LBs and DTs being mentioned as potential first round selections. I generally see them as good players and areas of need so they have clear value, but I don't see them as difference makers. I guess a big part of it is an individual's draft philosophy. For example, some people want their 1st round picks to pay immediate dividends. That's not my priority. In fact, it's not something I ever care about. Sure, it's nice if it happens but it's not a priority for me. My priority in the 1st round (especially 1st half of the round) is about finding players with very good to elite potential. I want players with the potential to be difference makers. That means I want some elite skill or skills relative to their position, I want the position to be a high impact position and I consider personality, character, motivation and intelligence b/c those are huge factors in whether a player has any chance to reach their potential. I don't care if it takes a few seasons to get there, but I do care if they basically have no chance to get there.

 

I've never thought about a 1st rounder like that before. Interesting perspective.

I guess I'm ready for a 1st rounder to produce at least some immediately. That would be my preference.

 

Miss more tackles? .... lose his feet more often during tackle attempts?.... miss more INT opportunities?... deflect less passes?.... wrap up less often?.... deter fewer passes to athletic TE's down the seam b/c he's short and has little vertical?... stand around more often while watching others finish the tackles?... be a hair more too late on plays that are outside the tackles?.... minimize fewer completions and catch-and-runs for chunk yardage to RB?

 

I agree. There's one difference maker at LB and he won't cost a 1st rounder, yet people keep prioritizing Perryman & McKinney ahead of him for some reason. Kwon Alexander. Those 2 have display half the talent Kwon does, and if McKinney weren't 6'4 250, he wouldn't be talked about with such praise IMO b/c he's a poor man's version of the athletic-for-his-size player he should be like playing like to receive such hype- Karlos Dansby.

 

He's a little fart.

 

Or Mike Hull, for that matter. Hull at least has impeccable instincts and is a reliable wrap up tackler.

 

I agree that Kwon is on the smaller size, but he's only 20 and won't be 21 till preseason begins, so he's really more like a sophomore than a junior. His frame looks fine in my eyes, and he displays good core strength and plays bigger than his size. Plus he bites as a pup. So I'm not all too to worried about him being in the 220's for the time being. He'll probably be 232 by the Combine.

At the worst, he's potentially an outstanding WILL. At the most, he matures into a 6'1 240 Pat Willis. Their frames and builds look similar to me. I think Kwon just needs to fill his out more.

 

lets just say Im not a fan at all of Anthony so he's out, Taiwan can play two down linebacker for sure, beast against the run, and curtis seems like a pretty decent prospect..as far as what can perryman do that they can't...i see him take better angles to his target and arrive with more compact explosiveness..Vision wise I think he's better, and i don't see him running some 4.7 like has been speculated..I think if he can run sub 4.6 and he's there in the 2nd, we need to take a strong look..all this with one caveat, bench his *** when paying a zone read offense..lol

 

did curtis grant get hurt in the champ game, because he didn't play at least half the game?

 

Here, this is all anyone needs to know about how "little" Kwon Alexander plays. [not a condescending tone or anything BTW]
0:47-- He's the linebacker at the top [#4] making the play.
[video=youtube;4pMd49umyis]https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=85114404&x-yt-ts=1422579428&v=4pMd49umyis#t=50[/video]
4:19--How 'bout Kwon's ability to spy on an athletic QB.
5:39-- ability to spin off the block of the TE, ride him laterally while keeping himself clean, then make the tackle.

When this kid grows into his man body over the next few years [since he just turned 20], he's gonna be a beast. Denzel Perryman should NOT be in any discussion whatsoever while Kwon is still on the board. When you combine his lower body explosion, quick-twitch athleticism, precise coordinated movement, decisiveness, great ability to play behind his pads, and a fearless & physical nature, you've got a dynamic kid with the potential to be special.

[video=youtube;qfoJL6KfSws]https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&x-yt-cl=85114404&v=qfoJL6KfSws#t=191[/video]
3:10 [above]-- Kwon lines up off the edge and flashes some potential doing so.
5:37-- rushes up the middle and is into the backfield in a flash.
5:47-- against Melvin Gordon. Kwon is so quick and decisive that he beats the left tackle to his spot and drops Gordon for a 2 yard loss at the sideline. Makes it look so easy. Denzel Perryman doesn't make this play.
0:52-- notice how quickly Kwon adjusts to "pass" and glues himself to the H-back.
0:42-- Kwon ruins this play, as there's nothing but green in front of Melvin Gordon whom Wisconsin has a huge gain set up for.

Here are the still shots:​

The pulling LG is supposed to put a hat on Kwon and seal him to the inside [in pink] to allow the fullback to pave the way through the second level....


....but Kwon has such great burst and is so decisive that he blows by the LG and stuffs the FB to close the running lane. As a result, Gordon is forced inside [notice him planting his right foot] into the waiting arms of the ILB who would've otherwise been part one of the fullback's combo block, with the FS out of the picture being part two.

 

More Kwon Alexander stuff.
This sack on Blake Sims at 2:37 is straight up Lavonte David material. Sheds the incoming FB and drops Sims for a 10 yard loss.
[video=youtube;qmXbsbrUCok]https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&x-yt-cl=85114404&v=qmXbsbrUCok#t=158[/video]

4:32-- Kwon drops into coverage on 3rd & 10. Immediately closes on dump off to Yeldon underneath and secures him up for no gain.
9:11-- Love this kind of stuff. 4th qtr, game on the line, and Kwon's trying to pump up the crowd.

 

Kwon Alexander should be high on our 2nd round list. 1st round talent.

 

Here's Denzel Perryman on the other hand.
[video=youtube;M8_DVlXrumM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&x-yt-cl=85114404&v=M8_DVlXrumM[/video]
These few plays against Duke are all I need to see. [granted I've seen more but...]
1:40-- look how late and slow he is trying to angle-off the RB to the sideline on this 3rd & 10 dump off. This is not quality sideline-to-sideline material, nor 3 down material.
2:02-- short height paired with a nonexistent vertical [and not the only example of such]. NFL QBs will feast on this with their TEs down the seam.
2:15-- not what a call a quality tackle effort, and it happens 5 yards upfield b/c he's too slow to it.
3:10-- another poor tackle effort. So much for driving through the receiver.
5:25-- in the open field against Duke's 5'9 180 freshman RB. Almost overruns this and then gets drug a yard by the tiny RB.
5:40-- Perryman is 3 yards closer to the sideline than the RB at the snap, yet he still gives up the 3rd & 5 completion to the freshman back, then gets shaken by him to allow the first down. Again, not 3-down material. Night and day difference between Perryman and Kwon Alexander here.
6:01-- gets shaken by Duke's RB in the passing game again, this time for 20 yards. If Perryman can't handle Duke's freshman back, what's he supposed to do with NFL backs? ..... or Rob Gronkowski?
7:09-- pass is gift-wrapped but he nearly drops it.

 

I still maintain you watch enough Kwon Alexander video and you should be gaining appreciation for the white linebacker #31 that played next to him. Very easy and fluid movement skills, natural instincts in coverage, runs pretty fast, more physical than you'd think judging by his frame. Could be a nickel linebacker at the pro level.

 

As a lengthy fast guy, I think Kwon Alexander has potential. But the impression I get when I watch a lot of film on him is that he doesn't know what he's really doing out there a lot of the time. He finds himself mired in the action a lot before he's really made a decision. He often needs to be told where to be pre-snap, too.

I'd have a tough time targeting him on Day 2 at all let alone in the beginning stages of Day 2. I would want to stick with positions that show more of a glut of demonstrable talent. There are really only a few true LBs in this class worth looking at (McKinney, Kendricks, Thompson, Dawson) and the rest seem like real gambles.

Your other guy Danielle Hunter has my attention though. But I don't usually give guys credit just for being young. He's got to impress me on tape and I haven't seen enough yet.

 

Generally speaking I think this class has a nice glut of worthwhile wide receivers and a nice glut of worthwhile defensive linemen.

At corner I think there are guys you could pick up in later rounds that could fit your SYSTEM remarkably well and play a surprising amount.

As usual there will always be late gems to be had at the RB position but this year's RB position is rare in that there are two talents worthy of 1st round status, except one as a torn ACL.

This does not seem like a good draft for offensive tackles but I could see a few tackle-to-guard converts panning out nicely. This is a pretty worthwhile guard class overall. Probably deserves notation as among the best positions in the class.

Outside of those positions, all the other positions might have a worthwhile guy here or there...but the pickings are slim and the good ones will probably be snatched up quick.

 

I need to go back and watch him then b/c the only play I noticed while watching Kwon & Hunter was a dump-off or something like that to Artis-Payne where #31 took a bad open-field angle and it left him diving for Artis-Payne's feet, which he missed. I got the impression that he didn't take the bad angle b/c he misjudged Artis-Payne's speed, but rather b/c he misjudged his own speed which concerned me a little. Hold on, I'm gonna grab it.

2:14
[video=youtube;4pMd49umyis]https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&x-yt-cl=85114404&v=4pMd49umyis#t=143[/video]

I know it's only 1 play, so I won't use it as the arbiter of his draft value.

 

I get the impression this is just b/c Kwon is young. IMO it's the same thing we saw from Jelani Jenkins as a rookie when he should've been a senior in college receiving his final tune up. To me, Kwon is well ahead of where Stephone Anthony was at this time last year in the decision-making department. I haven't seen anything close to Anthony's level of hesitation in the Ohio State game which was pretty bad. Then Anthony made the jump this year and was just terrific. Stephone is occasionally still a little hesitant, but there will come a time when everything clicks and he consistently knows what he's seeing, and when that version of Stephone emerges and he's able to play fast b/c of it, then watch out. That's how I feel about Kwon who IMO looks every bit as naturally gifted as Lavonte David or Daryl Washington.

Even when Kwon is mired in the action, I think we gotta appreciate the fact that when he does make the decision to act, his instincts are typically pretty good IMO. I don't expect to be seeing a CJ Mosley level of responsiveness from a junior who just turned 20 [Mosley was a 22 year old 4th year senior]. Scrape off the 2 year differential in age, the additional year of coaching, and the additional year of film study & field reps, and you have an underlying talent level that's virtually indistinguishable IMO.

The overwhelming trend I've noticed is that the most talented players will always rise to the top provided they're not major slackers just looking for a pay day. We saw it from Jelani. Ditto from Reshad Jones who was dinged for reasons similar to what you're using for Kwon.... but then you go back to Reshad's UGA tape and you see the talent was there all along. He didn't gain any in the NFL. He simply had things click for him as he gained a better understanding of the game and recognition of what he's seeing.

This emphasis on underlying talent level is why I didn't have a problem with Connor Barwin despite 1 year of DE; Dez despite being a junior who missed most of his final season; Ziggy Ansah despite starting football late; Demaryius Thomas despite coming from Ga Tech; Jimmy Graham, Jordan Cameron, and Julius Thomas despite minimal experience; Jerrick McKinnon despite being heavily raw out of Ga Southern; Gronkowski despite being a junior who missed his final year; Tannehill despite spending half his college career at WR; Pierre-Paul despite just 1 year of D-1 ball; Bruce Irvin's impressive transition to LB despite no prior experience; Kyle Long despite minimal O-line experience; Odell Beckham blowing up for 1300 yards and 12 TDs as a rookie despite missing preseason and his first 4 games. It's why I firmly believed from the moment we signed Wake that he'd be a Pro Bowler and who was like gaining an additional high 1st round pick.

I let the NFL iron out the kinks, which they usually do.

• Greg Hardy- immensely talented but a f*** up. Eventually his talent rose to the top as he emerged as an elite DE.
• Jahri Evans- viewed as a developmental prospect from Bloomsburg. Quickly surpassed all the linemen who entered the NFL with more polish.
• Jason Peters- immensely talented but undrafted after splitting time among DT, TE, and OT. Impact starter after year 2.
• Brent Grimes- one of NFL's most athletic players... but undrafted out of Shippensburg State.
• Victor Cruz- from little 'ole UMass. 1500 yard receiver by year 2 thanks to a superior talent level.
• Duane Brown- didn't play O-line until final year at Va Tech.
• Nnamdi- didn't play CB until the NFL... but was ridiculously talented.
• Joe Staley- from Central Michigan and wasn't moved to O-line until sophomore year.
• Sam Shields- spent just 1 year at corner.
• Charles Tillman- ridiculously talented out of Louisiana-Lafayette but in need of some polishing.
• Jared Allen- 1st round talent but lasted till round 4 coming from little 'ole Idaho State. Needed just 1 year to adjust to NFL.
• Calais Campbell- left UM after a down junior year and in need of some polish.... but talent rises to the top.
• Martavis Bryant- a screw up in college but had a great year 1 b/c he has all world talent.
• Jamie Collins- raw player from Southern Miss [Manti Te'o was selected 4 linebackers ahead of Collins simply b/c he was more refined and technically sound at the time, but Collins has quickly since erased that edge and is now putting Te'o in his rearview mirror]
• Tyron Smith- 20 year old junior who had yet to play LT.
• Aldon Smith- entering NFL after his 6-sack sophomore season.
• Aaron Rodgers- dinged for non talent-related reasons. Would've been the #1 pick otherwise as one of the most talented QBs in NFL history.
• Robert Quinn- entered NFL at 20 after just 2 years at UNC.
• Demarcus Ware- dinged for being a tweener coming out of small-school Troy.
• Vincent Jackson- unpolished out of Northern Colorado... but has always had 1st round talent.
• Antonio Brown- unpolished junior out of Central Michigan.
• Dontari Poe- unpolished junior from Memphis.
• Nick Collins- raw "developmental" player from Bethune Cookman, yet an impact player by year 2. 3x All Pro.
• Terron Armstead- from little 'ole Arkansas Pine Bluff; starter by year 2.
• Vontae Davis- unpolished 20 year old junior who similarly didn't know what he was doing a lot of the time.
• Sean Smith- late arrival at CB, yet early NFL contributor.
• Sebastian Vollmer- minimal O-line experience out of Houston after starting at TE.
• Louis Vasquez- unpolished run blocker thanks to Texas Tech's pass happy offense.
• Mike Wallace- college WR in need of refining. 1200 yards/10 TDs by year 2.
• Lardarius Webb- unpolished from Nicholls State, yet emerged as a top CB after year 2.
• Chris Johnson- at ECU rushed for 1000 combined yards and less than 4.0 YPC as a sophomore & junior. Returned for his senior year, put it all together, emerged as a 1st round pick, and then blew up the NFL as a rookie with 1500 scrimmage yards and 10 TDs. Did CJ2K gain any more talent than he possessed during his miserable sophomore & junior campaigns? Nope.
• Martellus Bennett- has since surpassed other more-polished tight ends drafted before him [like John Carlson].
• Jamaal Charles- one of the most talented players in NFL but was nitpicked during the draft and lasted till round 3. Wups.
• Cliff Avril- didn't move to DE until part way through his junior year.
• Lawerence Timmons- fairly raw, undersized junior who could've benefited from a final season tune up, but emerged as a cornerstone to Pitt's defense by year 2.
• Antoine Bethea- talented sub 4.4 safety from little 'ole Howard; Pro Bowler by year 2.
• Cortland Finnegan- 4.34 and a 44 vertical from little 'ole Samford; Pro Bowler by year 3; difference maker by year 2.

So unless the player either looks ridiculously raw, appears to have an inherent fundamental problem, or seems like a Sam Montgomery who just doesn't give a s***, I personally try not to get overly concerned about technique or their level of understanding the game [unless they seem especially adept at it, in which that case I'll take notice].

 

Yeah I remember that play. What I thought happened was Welter was reading the quarterback and actually froze, hesitated, looked like he was trying to move left before realizing it was a flare to the right. That cost him all the ground Artis-Payne needed to turn the corner.

Welter showed up a lot more in the Wisconsin tape. Literally because in the Auburn tape Welter barely played.

 

Jelani Jenkins comparison is fair. Another athletic guy whose speed you can see on the field but who isn't diagnosing well enough yet.

Not really sure what that list is about.

 

just pointing out how talent rises to the top no matter where the player comes from or much polishing they appear to need. IMO Kwon Alexander fits into that group of highly talented players who weren't impressively refined coming out of college but put it all together within a year or two in the NFL, so in his case at his young age I personally don't wanna ding him harshly for stuff that I don't believe will remain a permanent fixture of his game.

 

You guys have probably seen this. mock draft 1.0 from our fabulous Dolphins website. Several guys have us taking Shaq Thompson.

http://www.thefinsiders.com/blog/20...ndup-1-0?_ga=1.173794534.430375856.1384779437

He's apparently athletic as hell, but not sure he gives us what we need on D (without even getting into if D is what we need first). Getting gashed in the run game is the issue and it doesn't seem like he is capable of taking on blockers right up the gut and getting to the ball carrier. Good chance of chasing down anything outside and likely good coverage skills, but think on D we need help against the run FIRST.

To me that means inside DL help, big body run stuffer, or a meaty LB like Taiwan Jones.

Question of best value for me as well for the first or second round pick.

Just thinking out loud.

 

Kwon is a young 20 year old true junior who played well this year, not just flashed talent without any accompanying production or playmaking ability. He had recently turned 20 when the season began. To put it into perspective, there are players who who turned 19 as freshmen near the time Kwon turned 20 as a junior. I'd say that's a fairly accelerated curve, which is something I'd praise him for, not criticize him about just b/c he's not quite yet at the developmental & physical level of a 22 year old senior. With Kwon not having enough experience to know what he's seeing all the time or where to line up all the time etc, then how was he able to make all the impressive plays he made if he lacked upper level instincts needed to compensate for inexperience? I'd say his instincts are pretty good to be able to make the plays the made as a young 20 year old. You look at him with a glass half empty mentality and think something's lacking, whereas I look at him glass half full and think to myself that this is a guy I want on my team as he's already shown he can come this far in the SEC as just a young 20 year old, so I can't imagine what he'll be like when he's 23 and 24 or how quickly he might pick up the NFL game.

 

That was one of Perryman's better games too.