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State of the Unit: Defensive Tackle

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by zwave21, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    2014 Recap: This position group I'd put as the most disappointing in terms of fall off by seasons end. Injuries happen in football so that was a factor into our defensive decline but more importantly we could not get penetration in the middle on defense. In the running game we were getting gashed week by week. For years Solai/Starks were formidable but age caught up. Odrick has always worked a rotation and overall is our best DT but is a FA. Earl Mitchell signed last year starter well but tailed off during the end. Outside of that Derrick Shelby/Dion Jordan/Anthony Johnson all saw some time at DT. Fixing this unit properly will pay dividends for fixing what is wrong with our defense. Having space eaters up front will also help improve our LB play.

    The Unit: Jared Odrick is a free agent and our best player for this unit. Although resigning him is not the end all solution for what is ailing this group. The loss of Solai was apparent as while he did little in the pass rush department he was great against the run and occupied blockers. Having him to pair with Odrick/Starks allowed them one on one opportunities where they excel. Without him and Mitchell not really being the same mold of player it hurt our unit a lot and they wore down. Starks decline was apparent after being resigned and the best move may be to cut him to pay Odrick. Anthony Johnson was a UDFA but made the roster and provided some play here and there. He is not the answer in terms of a big run stuffer but he should develop more and more. Derrick Shelby is a jack of all trades but again he is a Free Agent as well. Terrance Fede this 7th round pick made an impact on ST and with his size he could be a candidate to be cross trained.

    Areas of Concern: Run Stuffing NT; 3 Down DT

    Free Agents: Jared Odrick

    Possible Cuts: Randy Starks

    Potential Free Agents: Dan Williams (AZ); Corey Peters (ATL); Terrance Cody (BAL); Ahtyba Rubin (CLE); Terrance Knighton (DEN); Nick Fairley (DET); Ndamonkuh Suh (DET); BJ Raji (GB); Damon Harrison (NYJ)

    Top Draft Options: Danny Shelton (WASH); Eddie Goldman (FSU); Malcolm Brown (TEXAS); Jordan Phillips (OU); Carl Davis (IOWA)

    As you can see these names aren't the top DT but the most suitable ones for what we are lacking. Shelton reminds me of a Ngata/Poe type NT who will have ability to rush the passer. He can be inconsistent though. The next two Goldman/Phillips are the younger ones of this crowd as both declared early. Goldman comes with more hype playing for FSU but Phillips I think will be the better pro. Davis is a a run stuffer/NT. All of these options would be assuming that Odrick returns via Free Agency. If he is gone and we got the FA route for NT and look draft for a pass rushing one.

    My Plan: Again needs is something we will have plenty of this offseason. As previously mentioned in the LB and OL write ups I had us addressing OG via FA with a big name. For LB I had us moving Jordan to Strongside and drafting a rookie Stephone Anthony in rounds 3 or 4. So with that said, I would first re-sign Jared Odrick. Why? he is a very good player and team player and we got to shake this habit of letting talent go for one reason or another. He provides the 3 down DT with versatility we need. From there it comes down to if you view the FA or Draft class as more potential to find a run stuffing NT. Both have a bevy of options but with us shelling out $4-7 mil a year for OG and probably another $5-7 for Odrick it may be hard to spend more big money on another DT as that would make Mitchell/Odrick/FA on regular deals. With Odrick back in the fold I'd take a hard look at Jordan Phillips in round 2, as he declared as RS sophomore but has some great measurables at 6'6" 330lbs with quickness to rush the passer. He is also scheme diverse and could play 4-3 DT or 3-4 NT and be effective. He is young but with proper teaching he could be a special player. I also hope that after investing in AJ Francis he could provide a backup option at NT and as a run stuffer. I'd also look at Fede more at Defensive Tackle with his measurables he could be a real force in the middle.

    Odrick - Mitchell
    Phillips - Francis - Johnson - Fede
     
  2. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Blow this unit UP. Let Odrick walk, and as much of a fan of Starks as I am, I think it might be time to cut him, go hard after Suh AND draft a DT early and one late. I really like Harrison in free agency but he's restricted, we'll see what level tender he receives, if it's original round then we can talk about signing him to an offer sheet because he was undrafted so no compensation to cough up.
     
  3. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    God I wish we could just blow it up and still survive but there is no way. Rumor is Suh is looking to exceed Watt's contract number.... hahaha no thanks. I'd much rather have Fairley at cheaper price. Harrison would be a good option but no way Todd Bowles let's him walk in his system when a true NT is so vital.

    I understand your thinking but that is way too much money and picks spent on one position when we have so many needs.
     
    77FinFan likes this.
  4. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If we stay with this 4-3 hybrid crap another name to keep in mind is Henry Melton who is now two years removed from his ack injury. You may remember he was on the verge of becoming a really good player and Dallas is expected to decline his bloated team option because they're in cap hell. Could be a fantastic time to buy at a reasonable cost
     
  5. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm picturing somebody bigger (heavier) than him. I like Michael Bennett of OSU, but he's of similar size at only 288. Our bigger problem is stopping the run so I'd like some more heft in the middle.
     
  6. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thats because you think we need an over 4-3 DT. I think we have one named Randy Starks. I think we need an under front tackle who can get penetration on the QB. Theres two ways I would advocate doing that....you can go after a vet who is undervalued right now like Melton MIGHT be (once he gets cut) or you can try and move a guy like Vernon there and open up a spot at DE for Dion Jordan.
     
  7. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Shouldn't Mitchell fit this mold? And I am thinking Wilfork/Raj type space eater. The problem w/ that is that they are not as interchangeable as other D line positions. Like when Wilfork went out, there wasn't another guy on the bench who could fill that mold.
     
  8. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Honestly, he hasnt done it consistently enough for my liking. Id be ok with him playing that role some of time but really in this front hes an over DT as well for my liking. When Im talking about an under DT Im talking about a true 5 technique that can get after the QB and consistently get penetration. Thats why I suggested Melton or moving Vernon there. Im looking for a Gerald McCoy or a Justin Tuck more then a run stuffer. the way the game is played now as long as you have one run stuffer youre in decent shape.
     
  9. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    I might have agreed more with this statement a couple of years ago, but now I just don't know anymore... I mean, look at the two Super Bowl teams this season, both have very strong running games. I think running the ball, and consequently, stopping the run, are slowly going back to being priorities in the NFL.
     
    DcDolfan420 likes this.
  10. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    I wonder the Falcons changing coaching staff will cut Paul S. a stop gap until a younger DT/NT is developed?
     
  11. DcDolfan420

    DcDolfan420 Banned

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    Great post. I agree with resigning Odrick too. For me Shelton is the guy I really want in the draft. He would be marvelous with Odrick, simply marvelous. But of course he could go before us in the draft (another reason we should resign Odrick). I don't know the draft that well, but I'd like to resign Odrick, cut Starks if he doesn't restructure (sorry bro I still love ya), and roll the dice in the draft. If we can't get Shelton round 1, pick up some other fat guy later in the draft or sign whoever is left in free agency after the draft if absolutely needed.
     
  12. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Mike Tannenbaum changes the nature of the kind of players Miami will be interested in. Dennis Hickey spent his entire career scouting Tampa-2 style players, and I think Tannenbaum isn't likely to see the same kind of smaller players as potential solutions.

    I think a fix is almost certainly going to be an over-sized Nose Tackle. I'd tend to think Kenrick Ellis would get a strong look in free agency, and Jordan Phillips in the draft. Carl Davis is another guy who despite his relatively light weight could pretty plausibly be looked at as a candidate to gain weight and play the technique.

    I don't think there's a particular reason that they'll fall in love with Jared Odrick. He's a good player, but he's a replaceable player, and there are other guys in his price range and even upgrades potentially in Free Agency.
     
  13. DcDolfan420

    DcDolfan420 Banned

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    Everyone is a replaceable player. Not everyone has the size, athleticism, youth, and pass rush ability that Odrick possesses. He's not a great player, but i'd say he's probably the second best overall DT about to hit the market behind you know who. Bringing someone like Ellis in, or anyone else, could easily be a downgrade if we lose Odrick. I agree with you that we're gonna look for a true nose tackle. But losing Odrick is what the OP refereed to as the type of move in terms of talent retention that we need to stop, I agree. Starks is getting too old and Mitchell just really isn't THAT good, Odrick is our best DT, don't wanna lose that since it's already a position of weakness.
     
  14. zwave21

    zwave21 New Member

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    Love the discussion guys as that's my main premise for putting these up. I am no scout by any means and I am sure some of the stuff I discuss may not be 110% factual but after playing football for 15 years and being a die hard fan it's not rocket science to see what is wrong with our DT group.

    Agree with those who state Tannebaum may have a different type of player he looks for than Hickey but the fact both are at the Senior Bowl makes me pleased to hear as they are collaborating together. Remember Hickey has final say over the 53.

    Regardless, I don't hate the Tannebaum hire I actually applaud putting a well respected football man in a position of football. He isn't the GM so let's not confuse that but his background from the coaches he has worked with is impressive. I know some people worry about some of his spending but with Dawn Aponte still in the fold he shouldn't be throwing money like a strip club.

    With that said when it comes to addressing our needs at DT. I don't have a clue if the Phins view Odrick as a priority but while he is replaceable I don't see why we would want to. He is a 3 down DT that we need. Still, who knows maybe he doesn't want to come back. If he doesn't it may be smart just to keep Starks in the fold. Regardless I think the first agenda needs to be a run stopper because even if we bring Odrick back that isn't the fix it remedy to our situation.

    Free Agency, Draft, Trade we need to find a run stuffer.
     
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  15. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    Odrick is also the closest thing we have to a vocal vet leader on defense. Cameron wake isn't a vocal leader, more of a lead by example guy. For me, odricks leadership is key to resigning him. That said, odrick is also part of the reason we got ran over.
     
  16. DcDolfan420

    DcDolfan420 Banned

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    He's an inconsistent player and not great in the run game. But at times he does display dominance in the run and pass, and with his age, he's a guy I think you just don't let go. Definitely need to add to the position though. DANNY SHELTON PLEASE!!! He's the guy I've been targeting all along, I hope to god we can somehow draft him. What a difference he would make for us. Disgustipate likes 3 tech guys like Michael Bennett from Ohio State more than big guys like Shelton for schematic reasons, but just yesterday I believe Daniel Jeremiah had Shelton as the 5th overall prospect, I never thought it was a debate personally. Shelton is superior as a prospect.
     
  17. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Odrick is a totally replaceable player within this off-season, is what I mean. Henry Melton, Nick Fairley, and Ndamukong Suh are all comparable free agents or upgrades to that sub-position.
     
  18. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's a bit more complicated than that. I personally don't think it's worth spending a high draft pick or spending big money on a space-eater who can't rush the passer.

    I don't think Mike Tannenbaum is gonna go for a guy like Michael Bennett. I think Danny Shelton will get looked at, but I think him being a pass rusher as a Pro is a bit up in the air. I'm also a bit curious to see what his arm length is.
     
  19. DcDolfan420

    DcDolfan420 Banned

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    When Vince Wilfork wins his 4th Superbowl, maybe your mind will change then lol.
     

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