You can’t throw talent overboard. Did you see how Vontae Davis played Sunday? He had five passes defensed. That’s why he’s going to the Pro Bowl. At 26, he’s the type of cornerback you can count on to play at that level in an impact position for the next four years. Davis took a while to grow up and Joe Philbin, in his first months, decided he wasn’t going to help him develop into the player he has in Indianapolis. The Dolphins got a second- round draft pick that became cornerback Jamar Taylor, who has played decently but also has been injured much of his two years. That’s not an even trade. It wasn’t at the time. And what’s a prime area of need for the Dolphins this off-season? Cornerbacks. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...or-dolphins-from-playoffs-20150111-story.html
Vontae had a great game and all the while I was thinking....if only Philbum could have coached him up.
Philbin can't be bothered with things like that. He's too busy doing... whatever the hell it is he actually does.
As much as I defend Ireland that one is on him. His biggest mistake imho, knew it at the time. Failbin may have not liked his attitude and immaturity, but he didn't, never should, and probably never will have control of a 53 man roster. A strong gm should have told Failbin deal with it, this league is about talent. How much is Philly missing Deshaun right now and looking for a WR because of his "character/gang" concerns lmfao!
You defended the ginger on this site? when? b/c under this username you just joined. imo philbin & jeffy are to blame for not reaching vontae.
I defend the ginger because like it or not he built the core of this team and managed the cap pretty damn well. We wouldn't have fat Albert, and the majority of the good players on this roster if it wasn't for the ginger and his drafting/cheapness. Now if we just resign Clay and Odrick and make a good pick with a slam dunk at #14 we are in great shape for 2015 and the future (thanks to Ireland imo). Sure he made lots of mistakes, big ones. But if we become the team I believe we have the potential to become, Ireland will deserve some credit.
I didn't ask for all your jeffy blah blah blah. I asked "when?" b/c the point I was making is: what drives some people to create multiple user accounts on msg boards? Is it loneliness? Is it fear? You want a name change, cool but what's the point in having different UNs?
while it was a dumbass move by Philbin, it's possible and likely that the shock of being traded woke VOntae's lazy *** up and got him to commit to his profession. having said that, the question is could Philbin have demoted Vontae for a season (or partial season) and had the same effect?
I don't get the thought that he was lazy just b/c of that one incident at practice. He was always in great shape, played hard, tackled harder than I've ever seen a CB tackle, and seemed to be going 100% at all times. He didn't seem that bright but just seemed like a great football player to me.
I thought Davis played well when he was here, just really sad Philpin cannot see that nor handle a personality like that.
But when Jordan, Vernon, Miller, Clay, and Tannehill grow the f*** up, I will care about your former opinions, immensely.
Exactly my thoughts. If the guy isn't getting what it takes to be a pro, as the head coach, you need to do something big to help him get it. Bench him. Suspend him. Fine him. Something, anything to get his attention. You just shouldn't be cutting a guy with his talent. If he was breaking the law etc. etc. like Josh Gordon, then I can understand having to consider moving on from the player, but Vontae was just a kid struggling to be a pro evidently. Cutting him was not the right answer. Hell, we should have at least kept one of them... Davis or Smith. The fact that both have gone elsewhere, and played well is very irritating to me.
The Vonte trade was the right move at the time. The guy was a sinking ship in Miami. He seems to have righted it in Indy. Oh well. I think that had we not traded him, he'd have continued to trend downward and maybe be out of the league. It happens where a guy needs a change of scenery to get with the program. Its unfortunate that coming to Miami never seems to fix anyone though. The important lesson is that just because a guy that the Fins cut or trade does better when he goes somewhere else, it does NOT mean that he'd have done just as well had we retained him.
Fans are so damn fickle. I'm pretty sure a great majority understood why VD got traded when the move happened, yet as soon as he does something good it's 'oh, we're so stupid!' Well, I'll stand up and say that I was fine with the trade then and I'm okay with it now. If the guy wasn't earning his paychecks with solid effort--if he was showing up to practice hungover--then you know what? You get fired. If I did that, I'd be fired. Sometimes being fired wakes a guy up and sometimes it doesn't. If VD got his act together congrats to him on that but he should've never put Miami in that situation he did. Do I blame Ireland for moving him when he got offered a 2nd round pick? Well, do I blame McDonald's for making your kids fat? Do I blame Ford for drunk drivers? Am I going to blame the Marines for Lee Harvey Oswald ? The simple fact that people seem to so quickly forget is that VD earned himself a ticket to Indy. He put himself in that position being the guy he was. It's the same story as with any ex-Dolphin player. Guy comes in and looks promising as a rookie. Everyone touts his promise and over-rates him. Then he tails off and starts being a headache and everyone under-rates him. Then he goes somewhere elsewhere via cut/trade. Then he plays well for a little while, making a good play that gets shown on TV every few weeks just as he always did and everyone cries about how heroic he is and blames everything on the coaches. You guys all watched VD for a long time. You know exactly who he is. He's not close to being the best CB in the NFL so don't act like we traded away Revis or Peterson or Sherman. He was physically gifted but inconsistent in his game, prone to take risks and a frustration for the coaches. He's a CB who's going to make a highlight play every few weeks. And he's going to get beat and give up a TD from time to time. The truth about yesterday was simple. Peyton was sloppy as hell. He had no velocity on his throws ergo Vontae Davis and the Colts secondary looked very good. We'll see how well that defense does next week and if by some incredible gift NE lays an egg--which I don't see happening--I'm pretty sure Seattle is going to blow Indy out of the water. So here's the thing...if you are okay with letting Odrick walk, don't cry foul every time he gets a sack when he's on another team. If you're okay with letting Clay walk, don't complain every time ESPN shows one of his highlights. If you want to get rid of Wallace, Hartline, Gibson, etc., just don't think for a second you have any right to feel cheated when they score TDs and convert crucial 1st downs for other teams. Just own your opinions. I'm fine with VD being on another team. Is he good. Yes. Is he great? No.
Well, I would say that a second round pick for a guy who's a question mark and going to be a free agent isn't "giving away". The fact that the pick hasn't panned out doesn't mean that the trade was a bad one.
I have no doubt whatsoever that Odrick, Hartline and Clay would all do better somewhere else than staying with us. Put Hartline or Clay in the right offense, and they're highly productive.
I agree. I think Hartline will be an asset for someone. I think Clay's only concern is health. I think Odrick can be a very nice piece for some contending team. The problem is, fans want to say generic things like "don't throw talent overboard." I feel like Richard Dawkins answering to some college freshman asking, 'Well, what if you're wrong?' What am I even supposed to say to that? That blanket statement "don't throw talent overboard" doesn't even begin to appreciate how complex these decisions are. What are we saying? Don't ever trade anyone? Don't ever cut anyone? Do these people even live in the real world?
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...g-staff-fins-heat-chatter-umluke-problem.html That's all you need to know about Philbin. He shouldn't be coach.
They don't f****** win. 0 playoff appearances. That's why everyone hates Ireland right? The bottom line. Well my point is, when that bottom line changes, i'm gonna troll the s*** out of planet earth with all the Ireland praise I can even handle. That's how much I believe in this roster, once we fire the coach of course lol.
Lots of people here were against the trade when it happened. I was in favor of it. Still am. I want reiteriate, for ecveryone .......WE DID NOT SHOP VONTAE. PHILBIN WASN'T TRYING TO GET RID OF HIM.
You know he recently turned 24 right? He also has the versatility of lining up at DT and pass rushing from there on certain occasions right? And that he was tied for 4th in the nfl last year with 11.5 sacks, at age 23, right? Just asking, oh and I forgot about Jones.
I understand there will never be definitive proof but many reporters have said that Philbin wanted him gone. FWIW
Yeah. The Colts called the Dolphins for that. But I forget the timeline. Did they watch the huge displeasure of the staff on a previous week and then made a call? It's curious how it all went down. An episode of Philbin complaining about Vontae. And then a call that week to get him in trade. What a great trade by the Colts. We got hosed. People always say, "oh no guarantee he would have turned it around here." No guarantee he wouldn't have either. Remember how immature Sean Taylor was, and he turned it around before being murdered. Vontae was immature, he wasn't getting into Pacman Jones style trouble. Immature? Ultimately it was Ireland and Philbin that made the decision to get rid of him.
Complaining about a player and actively trying to get rid of them are 2 different things. Philbin, as a HC, is allowed to (and should be) displeased with immaturity from a player, without it becoming an indictment of Philbin. At the time, VD was NOT playing at the level that he is now. That's not Philbin's fault. Philbin only had him for a couple of weeks.
The Colts called the Dolphins. But it could be due in part to hearing Philbin's opinion on Vontae. Fact of the matter is, whether he shopped him or not, Philbin is the reason he got traded. If Philbin wanted him here, he'd be here.
All the players Philbin complained about are gone within a season. That's not a coincidence. He doesn't like confrontation.
That's pure speculation. What isn't speculation is that the Colts called us and Philbin's first take was indifferent when Ireland brought it up. There was NOTHING that happened that says it was Philbin's idea to get rid of him.
It's not speculation when it's reported on from sources. Don't care what you think of the local reporters, just saying it's not like we're just making this up here.
That is not true. He didn't complain about anyone other than VD and CJ. All the other "complaints" were literally made up by posters and reporters. Honestly, when did he complain about Long or Dansby or Bush? He didn't. Everyone made the assumption he was upset about the leadership council so they built this narrative without any evidence and it became the truth.
I will never understand why fans feel its correct to make these sweeping generalizations about people. I could look at what you said there and point out that as a fan, someone who judges from afar, someone who readily admits to not having all the information, that your own conviction about Philbin being one thing or another is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. I could then make a sweeping generalization that, 'oh, this guy must be an idiot.' But that's not right. The world isn't good when people do that.
