1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tanny 2 Wallace...the saga continues.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Fin-Omenal, Jul 26, 2014.

  1. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

    36,936
    10,264
    0
    Mar 25, 2008
    Thee...Ohio State University
  2. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I like the part where he points out Wallace's inconsistent route running. That factor is so underrated by many.

    Jerry Rice...greatest receiver of ALL time...perfect routes, great hands, decent speed.
     
    Clark Kent and Fin D like this.
  3. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,245
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    This is the best part of the piece. It's smart for Lazor to do it that way. I really hope it works.
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.
  4. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,245
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Lets not forget that despite all of Tanne and Wallace's woes, Wallace still had 930 yds and 5 tds. Of course we want better and should expect more, but, considering the circumstances, that's still not bad. Just a little improvement and better chemistry and they can be a very dangerous duo. Keep the faith bros.
     
    DPlus47, CashInFist, Fin D and 8 others like this.
  5. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

    4,052
    2,347
    113
    Dec 9, 2007
    I get that his claim to fame is deep pass speed, but why cant we give him screens and shorter routes and let him run through them more? If tanny cant get him the ball deep we cant force the issue.
     
    MAFishFan likes this.
  6. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

    5,126
    3,241
    113
    Dec 12, 2007
    I get the feeling that Wallace is not "quick" in terms of what those routes/passes require. Working 'in space' is not his forte. His specialty is that top gear, and almost no one can keep up when he hits it. It's just getting him to that point, THEN getting the ball to him with consistency.

    His first few steps are slow-ish. Just not sure that this is something you want him doing with any regularity. You also expose him to big hits from big dudes. Wallace seems to be on the frail side in that regard.
    ____________________________

    A question for those who may know:

    How did Wallace do against press? I just wonder if a more physical corner can get into his head a bit. It's going to be very interesting week 1 against the Pats and Revis.
     
    mbsinmisc likes this.
  7. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    Personally I don't understand what the Dolphins thought they were getting when they signed Wallace. He was their top priority in free agency in 2013. Wallace had been in the league long enough so that the Dolphins should have realized that he was never a great route runner and he was used by the Steelers for the exact purpose he was signed with the Dolphins. To open up the opposing defenses by forcing them to cover him on deep routes.

    He never was seen as a WR with great hands and definitely not someone who who ran perfect routes. He probably is going to find it difficult fitting instead the offense run by Lazor because it is all based on the timing between the QB and the WR. That certainly isn't his forte and I doubt he will be here next year if the offense remains the same as this years offense. In fact I doubt he would be with the team right now if it wasn't for the cap hit they would take if they traded or cut him.

    While many individuals want to place the blame on Wallace. The fact is the Dolphins knew exactly what they were getting when they signed him to that huge contract. If now they can't utilize his talents to fully benefit this team, it certainly isn't Wallace's fault.

    As the GM at the time, Ireland certainly gets the majority of the blame for signing Wallace, but Philbin obviously had a big say in signing Wallace over Jennings, who played for Philbin with the Packers and probably fits this type of offense better than Wallace does.

    So while Wallace may not be a good fit for this offense, it is the responsibility of Lazor and Philbin to recognize what Wallace does excel at and utilize these skills in the best manner possible. If they are expecting him to suddenly develop into a great route runner after all these years in the NFL, I just don't see it happening.
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.
  8. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

    20,810
    8,965
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Hollywood, Florida
    Without the biggest part of his game being a big factor he still was nearly a 1, 000 yard receiver. Hes not Andre Johnson on Calvin Johnson but to pretend all he can do is run in a straight line really fast isnt fair.
     
    mroz likes this.
  9. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

    20,810
    8,965
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Hollywood, Florida
    BTW Mike Wallace had the 5th fastest ten yard split between the years 1999 and 2009 in the combine. We can put the slow start thing to rest.
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.
  10. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    May be so, but that doesn't mean it's all on Tannehill to make up for it.

    If it's recognized he needs to run cleaner routes, then he needs to run cleaner routes...simple as that. How can it NOT be his fault? Is he a pro receiver?

    I don't understand defending his proven weakness yet slamming Tannehill for being the cause of the problems that weakness creates.
     
  11. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii

    I'm not slamming Tannehill in this case. I am slamming a head coach and a former GM for bringing in a player which had certain skills and expecting him to be a different type player than he was with the Steelers.

    They should have recognized that Wallace was most noted as a deep threat and that throwing the deep ball was not one of Tannehill's strong points as an NFL QB.

    It appeared to come down to signing either Wallace or Jennings going into the 2012 free agency period. Jennings certainly is a better route runner and has a history of playing in an offense which requires the WR to run his route and be at a specific location at a given time. This was the offense that Philbin stated he wanted to run when he took the job with the Dolphins. Yet instead of going after a player who was familiar with this type offense, Ireland and Philbin decided to go after a player who was noted for running deep routes in an attempt to open up the defense.

    Tannehill had nothing to do with selecting Wallace instead of Jennings. Therefore I certainly don't blame him for the fact that a WR was signed who doesn't fit what he can do best as an NFL QB.

    I also don't blame Wallace because he wasn't signed to come in and run precise routes, but to create more room in the secondary by running the deep routes which Tannehill just happens to have trouble completing.

    The signing of Wallace was a front office decision and that is who I blame for spending huge money on a player who excels at a specific aspect of the passing game which this offense is weak at executing.

    I don't disagree that Wallace should work more on perfecting his route running. Just as Tannehill needs to work on improving his deep throws.

    Hopefully they both will improve enough in each of these areas this season and this will lead to more completions to Wallace by Tannehill. My long term view is that Wallace really isn't best suited for this type offense and Tannehill will be better suited with a WR who can run precise timing routes. So I will be extremely surprised if Wallace is still a member of this team in 2015 if Philbin is still the HC and Tannehill is still the QB of the team.
     
    Clark Kent and PhinFan1968 like this.
  12. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

    8,560
    4,133
    113
    May 9, 2008
    There's a reason Ireland isn't here and Philbin is. I suspect Philbin didn't want Mike Wallace for all the reasons you mentioned.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    I suspect the guy who wanted Wallace is sitting in the owners box
     
    roy_miami and Clark Kent like this.
  14. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

    5,126
    3,241
    113
    Dec 12, 2007
    I am not sure that this translates onto the field. It may just seem this way (his seemingly slow off the line starts), and that is why I asked the press coverage question.

    It may just be that his ability to work in space leaves a little left to be desired.
     
  15. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    That may be the case, but I just find it difficult to think that Ireland didn't go to Philbin and discuss the signing of Wallace instead of Jennings prior to the signing taking place.

    In fact many people on this forum a few years ago were praising the fact that Philbin was the person who advised Ireland not to sign Matt Flynn to a huge contract. So if Philbin was advising Ireland not to sign one former Packer. I have to assume he was in agreement with Ireland in the signing of Wallace instead of Jennings.

    I think the real problems with Ireland and Philbin took place during the season, not during the free agent signing period in 2013. In fact if the team had not lost their last two games of the season, Ireland would still be the teams GM today and Wallace still wouldn't be a good fit for this offense.
     
  16. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    If that's the case, this is only one more example that he doesn't have a clue when it comes to building a successful football team. Perhaps someone should have told him that they needed players who fit the offense they wanted to run. Not a player who could run so far so fast that the starting QB didn't have the type of throwing accuracy which would lead to a lot of deep completions.
     
  17. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

    8,560
    4,133
    113
    May 9, 2008
    I'm sure it was discussed. However, that discussion may have ended similar to Joe Philbin's request to release Richie Incognito, after his sexual harassment of a female volunteer. Given that Ross cited "harmony" as the reason Hickey was hired as GM, I have to imagine there was plenty of conflict and disagreement between Philbin and Ireland. In fact, wasn't Ireland was told he could remain as GM, if he was stripped of certain authority? Final say, perhaps?
     
  18. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

    1,385
    560
    113
    Oct 11, 2013
    I suspect that if you can afford the most expensive free agent on the market year after year you have an issue. Hell, we could have afforded the three most expensive free agents last year alone. That is not a good thing.
     
  19. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii

    I guess we will never really know everything that went on between Ireland and Philbin to create the division between these two men. I'm sure Ireland felt the pressure last year for the Dolphins to have a winning season, since he was in his 6th year with the Dolphins and Philbin was only in his second year.

    Ross had received a lot of heat from the media and fans, (me included) the previous couple of years because of his unwillingness to get rid of Ireland. I read reports at the end of the season that Ireland was upset that Philbin and the coaching staff didn't use the players he drafted in 2013 more during the season. There were also reports that negative comments Ireland made concerning Philbin were reported to Ross by others in the organization. Philbin also was suppose to have been told of these remarks and I am sure that only deepened any conflict between these two men.


    Once the team collapsed in their final two games. I would imagine that Ross wanted to hold someone accountable for yet another season in which the team failed to live up to his expectations. I assume Ireland blamed Philbin and the coaching staff for their failure to get the best out of the players. Philbin probably blamed it on Ireland and his inability to draft or sign the right players for the system Philbin wants to implement. Also the fact the OL was terrible was seen as a total failure by Ireland because of his inability to select quality players for this unit.

    Ross, it was reported, wanted to take some of Ireland's control over player personnel decisions as a requirement for him to remain with the team. Ireland obviously realized he was no longer Ross's go to person in the organization when it came to football decisions and therefore he decided to depart the premises on what I am sure he considered his own terms. The fact is that he was no longer in the power loop and if he had chosen to stay with reduced GM powers, I think it would have been a very unpleasant experience for the Dolphins organization during the off season, as well as during the regular season.

    I never thought Ireland was a good GM and I suspect he will never be given another opportunity to be a GM with another NFL team. Perhaps he will eventually get a job as a scout with another team, but he was just in over his head as the GM of the Dolphins.

    Just so Philbin didn't think that Ross completely forgave him for the Dolphins year end collapse and the Martin incident during the season. Ross forced Philbin to fire Philbin's best friend and mentor, Sherman, even though it was reported, Philbin wanted Sherman to return this season. Ross also forced the firing of the OL coach and the long time trainer because of their reported involvement with some of the players in the Martin incident. Again Philbin wanted to keep these individuals on his staff, but Ross insisted he fire them.

    The reality is that both Sherman and Johnson should have been fired from their jobs because they just weren't effective in their jobs. It is rather sad that Philbin didn't recognize this and only fired these individuals because the owner forced him to do so. That raises a big question mark to me in regards to his ability to hire the quality coaches needed to get the most out of the players. Hopefully the people he hired to replace these men will do a much better job than these previous coaches did while they were with the Dolphins.
     
    mbsinmisc likes this.
  20. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    I too get a kick out it when people get excited about how much money the Dolphins have under the cap. There is a reason that the best teams in the league have very little cap money each year. It is because they are using all their cap money to pay for the best talent. They are also paying their legitimate franchise QB, four or five times what the Dolphins are paying their starting QB.

    I can't wait for the time that the Dolphins have cap issues because they have too many quality players on their roster who want to get paid. I suspect that will also mean that they are a legitimate SB contender and that is a cap problem I could learn to live with.

    The reality is that when you have gone five years and failed to have a winning record in any of these years. You better be well under the cap, because you obviously don't have a lot of talented players on your roster. Therefore your salary structure should reflect the fact you haven't been overpaying this mediocre talent. Mediocre talent and mediocre seasons should equate to plenty of salary cap space once free agency starts and that is what has transpired for the Dolphins in recent years and that is also the reason they have had so much money to spend in free agency.
     
  21. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

    1,385
    560
    113
    Oct 11, 2013
    I wanted to sign both Jennings and Wallace, Jennings to help Tannehill and help develop young receivers and Wallace to appease Ross/the fans. Lots of people called me bat**** insane but I still think I was right.
     
  22. Griese's Glasses

    Griese's Glasses Well-Known Member

    1,388
    438
    83
    Oct 16, 2013
    Ottawa, ON
    We all hear about how this is Philbin's make or break season, and Ryan's...but it is definitely also Mike's. I want to see him fight for ball more and not toss up his hands anytime the ball is a tad ahead or wide.
     
  23. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

    20,810
    8,965
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Hollywood, Florida
    He may not have quick feet as in...side to side making cuts on routes but I think we can put the slow off the line thing to rest. IMO Route Running isnt hard to improve (even if he never becomes a master) he just has to work at it.
     
  24. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    Brady was intercepted twice yesterday and had 2 other passes defensed by Revis. I'll take overthrows over those any day...sling that s*** RYAN!
     
    Fin-Omenal likes this.

Share This Page