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Why is TV so dark today?

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Unlucky 13, Jul 22, 2014.

  1. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/07/why-is-the-golden-age-of-tv-so-dark/277696/

    http://acculturated.com/when-did-tv-get-so-dark-and-twisted/

    http://sonyairyna.com/dark-tv-shows-modern-fairy-tales/

    I think that these three articles are all pretty good reads. As a person for whom these shows have absolutely no interest or value, its depressing, because this seems to be the new normal, but its also insightful to try to understand it all as a confused outsider. Dark, brutal, shows without characters I can get behind and enjoy. Backstabbing instead of cooperation, misery and depression everywhere. Life just absolutely sucking for everyone.

    People keep talking about a "Golden Age" of television, and I find myself with less to watch than ever before.
     
  2. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    yes yes, it's very disappointing that the stellar shows of the 90's such as the below list have gradually given way to what we have today. :shifty:
    90210
    Melrose Place
    Party of Five
    Dawson's Creek
    The Real World
    Baywatch
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer
    Angel
    Lois & Clark
    Hercules: The Legendary Journeys
    Highlander
    Xena: Warrior Princess
    Beastmaster
    Tales From the Crypt
    La Femme Nikita
    Blossom
    Felicity
    Ellen
    Ally McBeal
    Murphy Brown
    Sex and the City
    Caroline in the City
    Grace Under Fire
    Dr Quinn Medicine Woman
    Doogie Howser
    Touched by an Angel
    7th Heaven
    COPS
    Law & Order
    NYPD Blue
    JAG
    Diagnosis Murder
    Murder She Wrote
    America's Most Wanted
    Walker, Texas Ranger
    MacGyver
    Columbo
    Nash Bridges
    Roseanne
    The Nanny
    Friends
    Frasier
    Becker
    Coach
    Fresh Prince
    Darma & Greg
    Will & Grace
    Martin
    Mr Bean
    Everybody Loves Raymond
    Full House
    Who's the Boss
    3rd Rock From Sun
    Just Shoot Me
    America's Funniest Home Videos
    Wings
    Home Improvement
    Spin City
    Mad About You
    Northern Exposure
    ER
    X Files
    Millennium
    Roswell
    Twin Peaks
    Married With Children
    Seinfeld
    Daria


    This list should be titled "Ad Nauseam". There's more substance in Breaking Bad, Hannibal, The Wire, House of Cards, Suits, and Deadwood's little fingers than all the above combined. IMO you have to go back to Miami Vice to get something that rivals the average quality of today's stuff. How many of the above shows could be skipped for 4 weeks without worrying about missing part of the storyline and being lost?... all of them? This list of slop is the very reason viewers don't expect a network tv-produced Hannibal to be worth a darn. JMO.
     
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  3. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    too dark?!?!?

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Go read some Freud.

    I find it funny that three of the darkest shows on that list phinsational provided are probably three of the best: Twin Peaks, X Files, and Seinfeld. Seinfeld was darker than people realize. About as dark as it gets for a sitcom. Lots of suffering and absurd hopelessness and cynicism and twisted irony. That's what made it funny...and that's why people still love it today.
     
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  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Well, most of what you list are sitcoms, and not hour long dramas. Still, I liked about 20 of those shows when they were new. However, I feel that the comedy genre, while down, is still making smart and well written shows that I can watch and enjoy.

    Dramas on the other hand, well, I know I'm in the absolute minority, at least on this board, but I don't get why a show can't be well written, acted, filmed and not be about mobsters, drug dealers or zombies. Everyone gets their opinion, but I think that mine is equally valid.

    Am I truely the only person who doesn't want to watch shows with a constant dark theme?
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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  9. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Seriously, dude; in what part of the country have you committed most of your ritual murders? And what's your "delight?" Innocent, young women, like Bundy, or whores, like Ridgway?
     
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  10. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That list was ridiculous. Some of the consensus greatest shows of all time.

    Seinfeld is widely considered a top 5 sitcom of all time.

    Buffy and X Files are two if the great genre shows of all time.

    Terrible terrible list
     
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  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    More of a discussion why.

    One of the people in the discussion was like you. He was really liking it at first, however it started to wear on him.

    They also pointed out that right now our big movies and pop songs are mostly happy fluff.

    It is interesting. I love Game of Thrones. I read the book. Watching the TV show does leave me with the question why did they take two sex scenes that were pretty out there, Dany's first time with the guy she has been sold too and incest next to a corpse, and decided that both of them needed more rape.
     
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  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I looked at that list and wish television could be that good again. Yes there was some crap, however there was a lot of funny and awesome.
     
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  13. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    :lol: There really was a lot—a LOT—of crap on that list. But there were also shows that are (to me) top-ten of all time.

    'NYPD Blue' is top-five for me, always, as is 'Law & Order'; 'Ally McBeal,' 'Murphy Brown,' and 'Ellen,' while not for everyone, were each seminal in advancing their genres and pushing boundaries; particularly 'Ally.'

    'Buffy,' 'Xena' and 'X-Files,' while not for me, were immensely popular and well-written, well-produced.

    'Frasier,' 'Coach,' 'Raymond,' 'Wings,' 'Mad About You,' 'Northern Exposure,' 'ER,' 'Friends,' 'Twin Peaks' were all either pioneering or iconic, either of which is a distinction not to be taken lightly.

    I think that, barring genius-level stuff like 'Frasier,' we're in the midst of a golden age of television. I say that without irony. The fact that you have Laurence Fishburne and Anthony mother****ing Hopkins signing on to TV series says that in and of itself.

    The one thing I do wish would resolve itself is the explosion of post-apocalyptic horror. Enough with that ****, already. I mean, the fact that absolute horse manure like 'Revolution' got the air time it did before finally, mercifully being cancelled is telling.
     
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  14. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Also, go back and watch Felicity season 1.

    It was a great show. Touching, funny, well acted.
     
  15. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That was a rough master list of all the top shows of the 90's to use for comparison purposes, genius..... since you apparently couldn't find a crew of monkeys to help you figure it out. Duh, obviously not every show was terrible, however the list as a whole was horrible compared to what's offered now.

    Now since you desire to point out Seinfeld and X-Files as if they make the rest of that period all hunky dory, why don't you make a case for how amazing TV was at that time compared to what we have now. Tic-toc tic-toc. And LOL at your defensiveness of Buffy the friggin Vampire Slayer as if that teenybopper show is worthy of even standing in the shadow of one of today's movie turned TV series, Hannibal.
     
  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I get that some of those shows were necessary for pioneering much of what we have today and I appreciate them for that, however if we're flat out comparing them to today's stuff they'd take a back seat, significantly so IMO. As popular as Buffy, X-Files, Twin Peaks, Law & Order, Northern Exposure, etc were, they'd have their asses handed to them by the top shows of today wouldn't you agree?
     
  17. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I do not agree with this at all. Sitcoms are at a all-time low. The top sitcom is Two and a Half Men or Big Bang Theory? In comparison to almost all the sitcoms on your list, Two and Big are crap.

    There is some really good television right now, however there is also a lot of really ****ty television. Especially all the Lost ripoffs.
     
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  18. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    the current trend is for everything to be dark and gritty. It'll probably swing back the other way eventually.
     
  19. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    THen maybe you're not looking in the right places. :dunno:
    Not sure what dramas you were accustomed to watching that were more impressive, better written, acted, and filmed than much of the recent stuff like:
    House of Cards
    Breaking Bad
    Suits
    Deadwood
    The Newsroom
    Rectify
    Terriers
    Satisfaction [the new USA Network drama]
    Top of the Lake
    The Fall
    The Americans
    The Bridge
    Halt and Catch Fire
    Utopia
    Orange is the New Black
    Rake {Australian}
    The Killing
    Broadchurch
    House of Lies
    Hell on Wheels
    Californication
    Weeds
    The Big C
    Homeland


    .... and other well regarded stuff that I haven't gotten around to yet like:
    Downton Abbey
    Orphan Black
    Justified
    Tyrant
    Sons of Anarchy
    Davinci's Demons
    Awake
    Rubicon
    Bosch
    Turn
    Nurse Jackie
    Shameless

    Out of curiosity, what from the above have you attempted to watch?

    what about:
    Misfits
    The Inbetweeners
    Party Down
    Banshee
    Sherlock
    Game of Thrones
    Hannibal
    Fargo
    The Wire
    True Detective
    Luther
     
  20. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Buffy and the X Files are two of my all time favs too. Maybe its my age - I was in college at the time and was essentially the target demographic. However, shows like Buffy or Star Trek, where you have a group of mostly intelligent, well spoken people who work together against their opponents - thats what I miss the most.
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    People go to the internet for comedy now.
     
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  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is a good point.
     
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  23. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    bah... I sign up for Sunday Ticket to watch my favorite team "play" on Sundays...
     
  24. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Did you ever actually watch Buffy?

    It was not a teenybopper show any more than Up is solely a children's movie.
     
  25. jpep13

    jpep13 Coach Of The Year Club Member

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    Tv shows today is almost like the music, certainly not like the old days.
     
  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Sitcoms are at an all time low because Americans no longer wanna be force-fed the same repetitive stuff during every time slot for seven days a week, and I for one am glad a chunk of those overpopulated sitcoms have been replaced with a greater diversity of programming. I'd say TV comedy is at an all-time high for quality and diversity compared to that long list of repetitive, unintellectual-styled, family-orriented stuff that typically took place on a living room set that viewers only watched b/c shows like Breaking Bad, Hannibal, and GoT ceased to exist at the time.

    I couldn't care less about Two & Half and Big Bang. Personally, I'd take the collective of Californication, Impractical Jokers, Misfits, The Inbetweeners, Archer, The League, Party Down, It's Always Sunny, Arrested Development, Weeds, Blue Mountain State, Key & Peele, Eastbound & Down, Modern Family, House of Lies, Veep, Entourage, How I Met Your Mother, Orange is New Black, Legit, Family Guy, Nurse Jackie, The Office, and My Name is Earl any day of the week over that ad-nauseum stuff of 20+ years ago. Seinfeld, Cheers, and Married with Children aren't enough to carry that generation compared to what today has to offer IMO.
     
  27. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Yes I occasionally watched Buffy. It was ok for that time period but it'd look like Sesame Street today compared to Hannibal. There's no comparison in quality between the two shows, just as there are dozens of others today that would put Buffy to shame.
     
  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    then start watching Suits, House of Cards, The Newsroom, Rectify, Deadwood, Sherlock, Halt & Catch Fire, and Satisfaction from the beginning for starters. If you haven't seen these series yet, I'd personally hold off on making statements about the drama genre lacking substance.
     
  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    question: if Law & Order, NYPD Blue, The Wire, and Hannibal had been released simultaneously and you could only watch 2, which would you be watching?

    Same question for ER, Northern Exposure, Breaking Bad, and Deadwood.
     
  30. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Lay off Buffy Todd. Half of what TV today is thanks to Buffy. Most of the show runners of today got their start as writers/producers on Buffy/Angel. Hush and The Body episodes hold up against anything out there today. Luckily Firefly was one of the first shows to be filmed for widescreen so it holds up today (although that also made it's budget that much more expensive which helped in cancellation ;p). The real big change between tv now and then is the change to digital and cgi. Remember most of those old shows were filmed on 35mm back when 27" box tv's were still the thing.

    Shows that Buffy's/Angel's writers/producers went on to also produce/write/show run: Lost, 24, Fringe, Mad Men, Glee (sadly), Grimm, Spartacus, The upcoming Netflix Daredevil series, Smallville, Once Upon A Time, BSG/Caprica, Warehouse 13, Torchwood (Final Season), Alias, Arrow and more.
     
  31. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I haven't heard of a few of those. The Newsroom looks interesting. If its ever shown on "regular" TV like some other pay channel shows, I might catch it. I saw a few episodes of Deadwood when it was on The 101 (or whatever DirecTV calls it now) and really hated it. Is Sherlock on BBC America? I haven't ever noticed it when I go through the guide.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Sherlock is shown on PBS Masterpiece Theater when it comes out. Otherwise you can watch it on netflix.
     
  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I'm not disputing Buffy's relevance or contribution to future tv in the least..... but c'mon, as a show itself it featured Sarah Michelle Gellar for Pete's sake. The best she could muster up for her role was a Kid's Choice Award for "Best Female Action Hero" and 4 Teen Choice Awards for Best Actress. That right there tells us all we need to know, including its suggestion as a borderline teenybopper show.

    Demographically speaking, of the 81,000 IMDb votes Buffy received, the show's highest average rating was from Females under 18 [9.1], followed by Males under 18 and Females 18-29 [both at 8.6]. Noticeably lowest is Males 30-44 [7.8]. Meanwhile Males 45+ saw a slight bump [8.0], which I'm guessing speaks more to the fantasizing aspect it presents to older men.

    And let's not forget we're talking about the WB here, not AMC, FX, USA, Showtime, or HBO. Their indisputable target audience at the time was teenagers, especially females, courting them with Buffy, Dawson's Creek, Smallville, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Charmed, Gilmore Girls, Felicity, Popular [about 2 high school girls], 7th Heaven, High School Reunion, and Beauty and the Geek.

    I understand it has its place in history, but some of you are talking about it as if it would rival The Wire, Breaking Bad, GoT, or House of Cards in quality and overall enjoyability. The fact is, Buffy's 7.8 rating from Males 30-44 is so far behind the top rated shows of today that I'd have to scan through a dozen pages on IMDb's top-rated list just to reach it, falling roughly on par with the BBC's Being Human that comes in at 7.6 for Males 30-44 but places below GoT [9.4], The Walking Dead [8.6], Fringe [8.3], The Strain [8.2], Misfits [8.2], American Horror Story [8.1], Orphan Black [8.1], Almost Human [8.0], Bates Motel [7.9], Jericho [7.9], and tied with True Blood [7.8], and just ahead of Arrow [7.7], Heroes [7.6], and Once Upon a Time [7.6].
     
  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Suits is on USA and should be a must-watch drama/comedy. It's rated 8.8 on IMDb among 145,000 users. I gave it a 10 myself.
    House of Cards is rated 9.1.
    Sherlock is at 9.3 from 285,000 users.
    Rectify is one of the best dramas around and rates an impressive 8.4, but I gave it a 9.
    Newsroom rates an 8.7; I gave it a 9.
    Halt & Catch Fire is at 8.2.
    Deadwood rates 8.9, but if you watched it from the beginning and couldn't get into it, then I guess you scratch it from the list.

    Try FX's lone season of Terriers, rated 8.6... and if you like the sci-fi/supernatual stuff then check out Misfits [rated 8.4] and Utopia [8.4].
     
  35. Scrap

    Scrap Active Member

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    If you have Netflix, try checking out Lilyhammer. Based on some of what I've seen on your list I believe you'll like it. Good show.
     
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  36. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Sorry but you automatically lose all relevance when you refer to it as a teenybopper show. For anyone who actually paid attention back then one of the issues that was commonly brought up was that the show didn't fit WB's teen female focus. It was actually a big issue back in the day and led to it's move to UPN at the time who capitalized. You don't even have your facts right. SMG actually got a Golden Globe nomination in an era where "genre" shows didn't get award nominations. Buffy also received Emmy nominations in writing and cinematography along with a cavalcade of production awards. It also dominated smaller awards such as the Academy of Science Fiction, Fantasy & Horror Films. If you think the disgust at Tatiana Maslany not getting as many nominations/awards as she should is big with tv critics right now........they were more furious back then at several Buffy snubs.

    Seriously since you've barely watched it you really have no grounds to speak about it like you do. Hence your reliance on IMDB ratings for a show that ended before IMDB was a popular site (A lot of those ratings are now coming from teens whose parents grew up on Buffy). You have no idea of it's relevance at the time and what it did for TV moving forward. In fact you can't even bring up network shows around it's time. The best you could do was hit the start of the cable renaissance that happened at the end of Buffy's run (circa 2002 with the debut of The Wire and The Shield)

    http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/joss-wh...ire-slayer-predicted-joss-whedons-marvel-work
    http://www.popmatters.com/post/117637-when-tv-became-art-what-we-owe-to-buffy/
    10 TV Episodes That Changed Television
    http://io9.com/5913850/10-tv-episodes-that-changed-television

    10 episodes that show how Buffy The Vampire Slayer blew up genre TV
    http://www.avclub.com/article/10-episodes-that-show-how-ibuffy-the-vampire-slaye-89781

    Also made #41 in TV's guides 50 best shows of ALL time (3rd in their all time genre shows). #2 on Empire's 50 greatest all time tv shows. It's in Time's 100 best shows of all time.
     
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  37. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just because a particular genre or show doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it wasn't an excellent show.

    TV is better today, not necessarily because of the particular quality of one particular show, but because the audience is so fragmented, and viewing patterns so diffuse, that it has allowed smaller and more niche networks to cater to smaller core audiences.

    In the 90's you couldn't do that. All network shows had to appeal to a mass audience.

    You keep bringing up Hannibal. It might be great. I've never seen it, but you are about the only person watching it. It barely even has genre appeal. NBC banished it to Friday nights. It doesn't even have a core loyal audience that might allow it to flourish elsewhere. Community is a great example of this. It was a failure by NBC standards but Yahoo Screen is more than happy to bring a million and half loyal viewers to its service.

    Enjoy what you enjoy, but there is no reason to denigrate the great shows of the past.
     
  38. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    TIL black people make "WTF" faces all the time.
     
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  39. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Ok. Now, I'm assuming the terms "internet comedy", "Sesame Street" and "Sunday Ticket" "Buffy" are all code to mean "porn". Correct?
     
  40. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I'm not a Netflix guy and don't do pay channels like HBO or Showtime, but I might check out the shows on channels like FX or USA. I tend to watch a lot of movies on FX and see commercials for their shows, and those have never "spoken" to me as something that would be my style, but I'm willing to give things a shot.
     

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