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Tony Dungy asked about Michael Sam, is still terrible

Discussion in 'Other NFL' started by Disgustipate, Jul 21, 2014.

  1. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...nt-have-taken-michael-sam--things-will-happen

    What an amazing bit of hypocracy. The guy was Mike Vick's biggest advocate for a second chance even before he got out of prison. He literally became a "mentor", mouthpiece, and rehabilitation specialist for a guy who was one of the biggest controversial media topics in the history of the league. He's also been a big advocate of Tim Tebow, championing the idea that he deserves another chance after his release from the Patriots.
     
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  2. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Sounds like the writer didn't get the answer he wanted for the story he intended to write, and instead took the honest answer and turned the article around it into a hatchet job.
     
  3. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    Yup I'd call that hypocrisy. Shame.

    In other news two guys came up to Zach Mettenberger at a bar last night. One of them yelled "Roll Tide!" Zach responded with "Good luck with that." And the other dude suckerpunched him in the eye.
     
  4. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Its not hypocrisy. What Sam did drew attention to himself and to his cause and took attention away from the team where the focus needs to be. Football isnt a forum for political statements and teammates and coaches dont want to deal with it. Additionally, Dungy is a religious man and this would offend some religious people. Is that not his right? This isnt Jackie Robinson. Gays arent oppressed by years of slavery and Jim Crow Laws. They arent hung with regularity. They arent even dealing with a society that is anti-gay...sure there are some but its not a majority.

    IMO the bigger deal is Sam, dropping to the 6th round because of the fact he admitted he was gay and making a spectacle (I.e. Press conference and then the tv show that was cancelled). Im sure quite a few teams took him off their boards for the exact same reason Dungy gave. They dont want to deal with it. For all the positive publicity it gets, and to some degree deserves, it is a distraction. Football players and coaches dont want it and I dont blame them. The game is hard enough and there are enough moving parts to deal with. Im sure the PC police will have a problem with it...I dont.
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I have to hand it to Disgustipate on this one. He's been clear about Tony Dungy being bigoted for a while, despite his sterling image. I wasn't buying it, but now I am.
     
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  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    So is Tony Dungy a coward for his stance using the excuse of the "distraction"? Or is he brave for admitting his cowardice?

    Something for the zen masters to meditate upon.
     
  7. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    I agree totally. I'm sure that there are plenty of coaches and GMs who passed on Sam to avoid the distraction, but from Dungy it just doesn't hold water. He embraced the dog killer, who was generally viewed as a pretty lousy human being even before he was caught in that autrocity, and he's been a huge supporter of Tebow, who is, by his choice, a walking distraction. Perhaps you need to be a really crappy left handed QB for him to take an interest, lol.
     
  8. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    In addition to his hypocrisy about "distractions," there's also this issue of Tony Dungy helping raise money and awareness for anti-gay advocacy groups. Tony Dungy is your typical religious zealot who gets a pass for his bigotry. Nothing will come from this.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I can understand expressing his beliefs about gay marriage and maybe even fundraising against it, however I believe the groups he's fundraised for are openly lobbying for legislation that allows discrimination against gays. That I will not stand for. And now Dungy himself has openly espoused the discrimination against hiring a man because his homosexuality is too much of a "distraction".
     
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  10. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    No, this is religious zealotry.
     
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  11. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They both are. I don't like being flicked on the nose. That fact that someone else got their arm chopped off in Africa doesn't make it less annoying to be flicked on the nose here in America.
     
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  12. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree that it is hypocrisy on it's face. I took the statement to mean that he wouldn't have drafted Sam b/c his talent level doesn't warrant the distractions he brings. I agree with that. I saw Sam as a marginal prospect who most likely wouldn't make the team (like most every 7th rounder). Odds are that when he was cut the questions about whether his sexual orientation would be a factor would arise. I think I could find a dozen other prospects with as much or better talent levels that wouldn't also bring the outside distractions. That would be my assessment as a guy with out a devout religious reputation. If I did have a devout religious reputation then the questions and assumptions would be even worse. If I rated Sam's talent level as higher then I would be more willing to deal with the distractions. Hot button political issues are just something I would want to avoid as a coach unless the talent level made it worth it for me.

    Now it's possible that Dungy meant that he wouldn't draft him b/c of a disagreement with lifestyle. I think that would be hypocritical, but that wasn't my read.
     
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  13. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    But he didn't say anything about his talent level. He specifically pointed to the distraction and that only.
     
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  14. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I see that as a given in the statement. If I were to say "I wouldn't sign him b/c of the distraction" I would mean relative to the talent he brings even though those exact words didn't leave my mouth. But that's always assumed when coaches and scouts discuss a player. And if the discussion were more than one sentence long, then I would most likely specifically say the words "talent level".
     
  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But even in his long "this is what I meant" statement he said nothing to clear up the talent part and never said anything other then, he would be a distraction.
     
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  16. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    They really aren't the same thing at all.

    Iraq is in Africa? When did that happen?
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The "distraction" is the fact that Michael Sam is an out of the closet gay male. That's the reason he is a potential "distraction".

    So when you say you would ding his draft merit based on the distraction, you ARE discriminating against him based on sexual orientation. That is what you are doing. That is explicitly against rules set down by the NFL, and it is illegal in many cities and states besides.

    It doesn't matter if you're basing this within the context of Michael Sam's talent level. Reducing his grade or draft standing at all based on the "distraction" angle is in fact explicitly against NFL rules.
     
  18. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    FWIW, heres Antonio Pierce's take on it; he agrees with Dungy.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...ichael-sam-antonio-pierce?eadid=SOC/FB/SNMain

    And for those of you wanting to compare Michael Sam to Michael Vick they arent the same at all. Sam did nothing wrong except make his sexuality a big deal (which it shouldnt be). Michael Vick did a very mean thing, served his time and hasnt been a distraction since (to his credit). As an animal lover I will never support Michael Vick the football player but hes been very low key since and by all accounts grateful for another chance. Michael Sam wanted his own TV show before deciding it was a bad idea. They are nothing alike.

    And for those comparing this to Tim Tebow; there are more similarities but it is still a very different comparison. Religion is widely accepted in locker rooms. Clubs even employ a team pastor as we found out when talking about one of the prospects the Dolphins were looking at this year. Why is only a team chaplain employed? Why isnt there a team Rabbi? Oman? It is about unity. Thats why they join hands. Michael Sam was putting himself out there as an individual and there were a lot of ways it could have been handled better.

    Now, whats done is done. Its time for Michael Sam to start playing and stop talking. Once the games start I can tell you without knowing a single NFL coach, that if Michael Sam is another Cameron Wake or whoever no one will care about his sexuality and teams will want that "distraction". If hes a mediocre/bottom of the roster guy, teams are going to pass on him and say the risk/reward is not worth the media drama and public opinions. I dont think Sam should be persecuted or singled out for who he is or what he does in his own spare time, just like I dont think anyone really should be, but I do think it has to be asked about why he put himself out there like that BEFORE the draft? Why didnt he wait til he accomplished something first? Was there a rush to be in the spotlight? A book deal/TV show/other media attention he wanted? IMO those are all valid questions.
     
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  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This is pure bull sh-t. Not long after Michael Vick got back into the NFL he held a 30th birthday party bash at a local nightclub, got into a confirmed altercation with one of the guys who was involved with him in the dog fighting scandal, to the point he was forced to duck into a limousine while the dude was SHOT not two minutes later. That's keeping a low profile? That's not being a distraction? Bull sh-t.

    And it's absolutely amazing to start painting Michael Sam's decision NOT to do a television show about his experience as being worse than Michael Vick's past misdeeds, all under the guise of "Michael Vick's stuff is in the past". Well guess what, so is Michael Sam's coming out of the closet. It's in the past so why are you still talking about it?
     
  20. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I didnt know about the nightclub incident at which point you would be right about that. I havent really heard much else about him though since he was back.

    However, Michael Sam's decision not to do a TV about his experience was because of the fact it drew attention on to himself and away from the team. How is that being a good teammate? The difference is Michael Sam coming out of closet wasnt something he had to do. There was no reason for anyone to know. He brought the attention to himself and away from the team. In my world, thats not very team oriented. Sam didnt put the TV project on hold; he met with the rams and they agreed that it was the best decision so obviously theres some merit to what Im saying and Im not the only one that feels that way. And if you read the second link there were questions as to whether the league had agreed to even let him do that since no one else has their own TV show... http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/16/michael-sam-reality-show-on-hold/ http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-it-didnt-know-about-michael-sam-documentary/
     
  21. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    The distraction is that he'll potentially bring a media circus. It's similar to what Tebow brought. Is Tebow being discriminated against b/c of his religion? That faces an even stricter level of scrutiny than sexual orientation. IMO Tebow's talent level is also higher than Sam's, but he's not on a team b/c he's not worth the distraction.
     
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  22. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Fu@& tony Dungy, he showed his true colors, and those colors are he thinks it's a choice...dumass.

    Distractions???... What a lack of depth and understanding, on so many levels..it's all been quiet as hell, let the man play ball like he wanted, give him credit for denying the distractions that could of been.

    I've never thought there was any reason why I couldn't be a dolphin fan, but if he was ever considered and hired, I would be the biggest troll ever until he was fired.

    Yeah I started a thread wanting to draft the guy for all the reasons and more that Dungy cannot even conceptualize, man has been so brained washed by his religion he's lost his ability to think like a human being.

    I'll stand by what I said in that thread, it looks to me no one besides myself see how this dudes character makeup will impact a football team, his demeanor on the field, and his GREAT leadership qualities..
     
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  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think he's not on a team because he's a terrible quarterback. His mechanics and timing continue to be bottom of the barrel, and they've resisted improvement so much that there's no upside. Once a guy that isn't good enough to play games at that position is seen as not having upside, it's over. He's also resisted the move to a different position in the past and quite frankly there's no reason he should be compelling enough to sign if you're going to try him at some position he's never played before.
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Incredibly bigoted to expect that a player should have to keep his sexual orientation a secret for fear of being seen as a distraction. Incredibly so. Terrible thing to believe.

    Keep your love a secret. Never be out with your significant other. Never show affection for one another that can be viewed as showing signs that you are gay. Never talk about it. Never even mention it in passing. Never say "my lover" or "my husband".

    Awesome world we'd live in if you were in charge.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nahhh, I mean how many times can the media ask the guy gay related questions, I mean seriously, how many times can you go there?

    The story imo is old and boring, the dude is gay, there's lots of gay dudes in the NFL, and has always been, and players, teammates know which ones are..it's old news..the media vrs mike Sam...I'll take Sam all day, he's too smart for them.
     
  26. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So you would rather a man that's deeply religious be offended? Got it. Awesome world we would live in if you were in charge. Get off your damn high horse. How does any of that relate to playing football? Exactly, it doesn't. It should stay in the locker room at best.

    It's not for fear of being a distraction...it's because it is a distraction and selfish at that. It's not bigoted, it's being real. You don't want to hear it.
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Man..the bigger deal is Sam?

    So you think gay folks should stay in the closet?
     
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  28. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think it has any bearing on whether a person can play football and if I were a coach, GM, or teammate that's not what I would want to spend my time talking about. I can give two poops about a players orientation. Can they play? If yes, you're on my team. If not get out. Same as anyone else. I don't see how it's anyone's business or how it related to playing football.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The presser was because he's man enough to take it on, and not hide, we should all pay attention.

    He also has saved lives and will continue to do so because if it.

    I guess some cannot understand how courage and strength can impact the physche of a football team.

    What some folks like Dungy don't comprehend is how this dude might be able to bring a team closer together..

    I'm sure he's already made fun of himself in so many direct and indirect ways..that's why he's a leader, he knows what your thinking and will come down to your level to make you feel comfortable about yourself without pointing out your flaws, insecurities, and in some cases lack of intellect.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    its called being oppressed, you cannot be the best football player you can be when you can't be yourself..

    Everyone before him hid it, he didn't, now let him p,ay his ball and judge him based on his skillset and impact to the team.
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wait..why is Tony Dungy offended?
     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I too don't think being gay has anything to with playing football.not sure what your saying anymore.

    He came out because it's the right thing to do for himself, so he could be the best player he could become, and not be oppressed by the dungs of the world, someone at some point in this ignorant freakin world has to have the courage and intellect to take a stand and he did, the only distractions are because our society has religious freaks who think it's a choice and their going to hell..

    The point that is being missed is the character of the man and how he will make sure it doesn't become a distraction, how he will humiliate you for trying to make him a distraction, and eventually his character may even inspire acceptance in a NFL locker room.
     
  33. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I have a higher opinion of Tebow's talent and upside than I do Sam's. And I was against the notion of Miami signing Tebow back when that was proposed. If there was no reason for me to sign Tebow then there's even less reason for me to sign Sam.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    and no one has a problem with you making that football decision, but avoiding the player because it's a distraction if you think his talent and leadership can help your team is utterly offensive.
     
  35. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good. Now explain how coming out of the closet has anything to do with playing football and why someone would feel the need to put that out there? Thanks.

    Tony Dungy is a religious man. It goes against what he believes in. Why is Michael Sam's sexuality more important then Tony Dungy's beliefs? Neither one needs to be out there but if one can be out there then so too can the other. You cant just let one side have all the fun and get all the attention and then vilify someone else for doing the same. Thats as hypocritical as everything the thread starters claimed Dungy to be.

    No oppression is what blacks in the 1800's went through. Thats oppression. Gays are as free as you, me and the next guy. Why is being gay relevant to playing football and why do people need to know?

    The presser was to draw attention to himself. Why else do you have a press conference about you sexuality? Do you ask the guy in the cube next to you at work which side of the plate he bats on? No. It has no relevance whatsoever in the workplace imo.
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It has nothing to do with it. You're defeating your own point. Michael Sam came out of the closet. Why should football care about that? It shouldn't. Yet you're protecting the opinion of those who want his coming out of the closet to affect his football status. It's all very bigoted.
     
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  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Michael Sam's FREEDOM is more important than Tony Dungy's beliefs.

    If I believe you should be oppressed because my religion says you should, I don't get to insist that you be oppressed because it would offend me if you weren't.
     
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  38. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Do straight players feel the need to announce their sexuality? Do other gay players feel the need to announce their sexuality? A sexuality is not the same as a race. One is unavoidable.
     
  39. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tony Dungy has the right to freedom of religion and freedom of speech all the same as Michael Sam. Sorry chief. Keep trying. No one is saying Sam shouldnt be in the NFL because he is gay. You dont know the definition of a bigoted statement apparently.

    EDIT: And if you had a problem with what I was posting on a personal level you of all people know that I have always shown you respect over PM and tried to help you in whatever way I could instead of hurling insults at me. Thats why your post was deleted.
     
  40. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    The view I keep thinking about, is how the first black player in each sport was a "distraction" and how many people back then were completely okay with racists and people that were against integration of sports, or any aspect of life, because of the fact of "that is there beliefs". Ya cant knock a man for his beliefs! Ugh....yea you can. Regardless if it were a religious belief or not. If it is completely moronic, you can absolutely knock his beliefs. And in this case it absolutely is, completely moronic.
     
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