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Mariota > Winston..

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by djphinfan, Apr 30, 2014.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I said last year at the beginning of the college season that mariotta would be the first player taken in the draft if he came out, I'm pretty sure he would of given clowney a run for his money..

    For some reason folks are underrating this dude..

    I believe he is better than Winston and I would take him #1 next year.

    I've also been on the record stating my thoughts about Winston's character and behavior, and today's crab incident doesn't disprove my hunches, maybe he's just really dumb and young, I'm good with Marcus over this dude..skillset and mentals.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Easy first pick in this years draft..
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't even think he'd go 1st round in this year's draft.
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like this kinda party..

    Man he looked good in his spring game, body looks likes it's gained 10 lbs of muscle..6'4 220, chiseled,reports are that he's the fastest player on the team..is not just a running Qb..full arsenal at your disposal.

    I know we had this discussion at the beginning of last year when you said the same thing, ( I believe it was, you wouldn't touch him in the first three rounds) yet, he went on to a phenomenal season.

    You must see some serious flaws in his game, could you share?
     
  5. ILDolPhan

    ILDolPhan New Member

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    Hum...he's still plenty raw, but I definitely think he'd be in the 1st rd discussion this year over some of the QBs.

    He's got a fan in Lance Zierlein........Per the Rotoworld article:The Sideline View's Lance Zierlein has "no doubt" Oregon QB Marcus Mariota would have been the Texans' selection at No. 1 overall had Mariota declared for the 2014 draft.
    Zierlein is a well-known media figure in Houston and has plenty of connections. He hinted on Twitter early Tuesday that he expects the Texans to draft Khalil Mack. Mariota is the (extremely) tentative favorite to be selected with the No. 1 pick in the 2015 draft. He is a more disciplined quarterback than Johnny Manziel with superior size (6'4/212), all-around athleticism, and arm strength.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    We never had a conversation about Marcus Mariota prior to the start of the 2013 season because I don't believe I had ever even taken a look at Mariota until partway thru 2013. Partway thru the 2013 season I made it clear there were things I did not like about Marcus Mariota and I don't see all this talk about going #1 overall in the 2014 NFL Draft, that he really needs to stay in school and work on his game (which is exactly what he did, kudos to him). I never put a discrete grade on him or claim about how I would not draft him even in Round 3. In December after his regular season was done and he had already announced his intentions to return to school I said that was a good decision for him and I'm not sure he would have gone above the 3rd round, perhaps the 2nd round if he blew the doors off the Combine.

    Your characterization of me having somehow already been wrong about Mariota because I claimed before season started that I wouldn't touch him in the first three rounds and then he went on to have a great season ... is purely false.

    This is just a pet peeve of mine but please if you're going to make claims about things I supposedly said...be correct. What happens is you make this claim about what I said and so now everyone reading it just takes it as correct and if it's wrong it's suddenly up to ME to either remember way back and set the record straight or to start sifting thru old posts and whatnot trying to determine what I actually said. You can imagine how that would get annoying, can't you? I mean it's like because someone else decides to make some untrue claim now I've got to go thru all this work to prove or disprove it. Very annoying.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    There is absolutely no way that Lance Zierlein could know that the Houston Texans would draft Marcus Mariota #1 overall because the Houston Texans themselves have absolutely no idea if they would draft Marcus Mariota #1 overall. They barely had any tape study of Mariota done before he declared that he was returning to school and so the evaluation process of him never even began. He never went to the Combine or had his Pro Day (which apparently can make or break a QB prospect, little did I know). He never got to interview with teams or anything like that and I re-emphasize that even his tape study is not done. The ground level scouts may have done work on him but there are usually at least three layers of tape evaluation on top of the area scouts through which all prospects must pass before they get to a final grade.

    Could Marcus Mariota go #1 overall next year? Absolutely. Would he have this year? Highly doubtful, but truly there's no way to know.

    Personally I think we need to see a lot of growth from Mariota before the NFL considers him a real quarterback prospect worth hitching your wagons to.
     
  8. ILDolPhan

    ILDolPhan New Member

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    The whole situation is purely hypothetical since Mariota isn't in the draft this year. I agree that he definitely has a ways to go though. I think he made a good decision to go back to college for another year, and Bortles maybe should have done the same also. Both have some tools to work with, but are plenty raw and need more refinement IMO.

    Honestly, I don't think he would have went to Houston this year anyways since he doesn't seem to fit what O'Brien wants....pocket passer, with great accuracy. I'm just basing that off the last 2 QBs he's worked with (Brady & Hackenberg). I do think he would have went (hypothetically) somewhere in the 1st round this year due to his potential, because I think some teams would see a Kaepernick type clone that they could work with.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think Blake Bortles made the right call. He's a college graduate and he's four years out of high school. He just guided UCF through an unbelievable Cinderella season and capped it off with a stunning win over Baylor in a BCS bowl game. Things were never going to get higher or hotter for him than this year. The time was right. I don't believe him to be raw. He's been coached well. He could use further development for sure but the NFL is in a better position to give him that further development than UCF.

    A lot of times when you give these guys too much time they start to nitpick your game to death and that could be exactly what is happening right now with Teddy Bridgewater.
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't usually misquote people..I don't know exactly when it happened but I know what I stated after his freshman year going into the season, it could of happened during the year when he was shredding the competition at some point, I was claiming that he should win the heisman and would be the first pick if he came out, you said something like what you said below.

    That's not our convo but I see that your sentiment about the player wasn't much different then from what you told me before then.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Mariotas skillset fits every scheme..

    For anyone To think that he wouldn't be a first round pick from what he has displayed in college is imo, a serious misevaluation, like by far, to think he'd be a third round pick is really off imo.
     
  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    My account of what was said and when was accurate because since you misquoted me I had to look for the exact quotes. I'd like for that to not happen because it's annoying to find yourself having to do that.

    The quote you just quoted happened after Mariota had played his final regular season game, and after he had announced he is staying in school. You insist on continuing to position the conversation as somehow happening early enough to imply my feelings on Mariota were predictive, and came to be proven wrong. For whatever reason. Maybe you're just trying to make yourself look good by comparison. I don't know. Either way I'd like you to represent me accurately if you're going to represent past things I've said.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sure there is, his skillset is that good and the need is desperate.
     
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    you disagreed with me when I was stating how enamored I was with Mariota, I won't look it up, but like I said I don't misquote folks, and I remember the context of what was said, the fact that you continued to think he was a third round pick after the season he put up is all that needs to be said and coincides with what i believe you said to me beforehand.

    I'm not trying to make myself look good, you came into the thread with your statements that were the opposite mine, which is fine, I'm just stating some of the things you have said about the prospect in the past.

    Your on the record stating that you thought he would be a third round pick, good luck finding anyone who has credibility not chuckling on that..

    I will reiterate my stance to this year, Mariota will be the first player taken in next years draft barring injury.
     
  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I love him, but he did the right thing by staying in school. He doesn't even turn 21 until Oct 2014. To me, that is too young to be moving up to QB at the NFL level. WR and RB, declaring early, yes that's ok. But IMO by far most of the time, QBs should spend 4 years at the college level. There are exceptions I know, but as a general rule, QBs need 4 yrs in school even if one is just a redshirt year.
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We've had this convo before, when your that good, it wouldn't of mattered if he came out this year, he would of been taken no later because of it, unless the GM is not smart..what he needed to do and where he would of been taken is two different topics..A good GM would select that Based on ceiling, then give the finger to everyone who questioned him for doing so two years later.

    You draft him # 1, you find a vet that can help him in his first year, don't rush him in, and your good, you own the stock.

    To not take a blue chip qb prospect because he declared early is a mistake.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    An interesting statement to make after misquoting me.

    Beforehand as in before the season? If that's what you mean then as far as I can find, you're just lying. So I'd be careful there.

    This is interesting because it implies that you take it personally when I give an honest evaluation about a player, and so you in turn are going to make it personal. As in, I criticize a PLAYER (not you), and you in turn criticize ME. That's pretty childish.

    That's correct. I think in the 2014 draft he is probably a 3rd, perhaps a 2nd if he blew the doors off the Combine. Hopefully for his sake his decision to stay in school works out for him, he works on the skills that translate, and becomes something more.

    Noted. And I won't misquote you on it.
     
  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I agree he should still be taken early, but not as early as he will go next year and he is better off in 2014 starting for Oregon than he'd be sitting on the bench in the NFL. If he got thrown to the wolves as a rookie starter on a bad team it could cause permanent harm. See: Carr, David.
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "beforehand" as in, your statement to me was before you dropped the statement that you thought he would be a third round pick, wasn't that hard to figure out.

    Choo calling me a liar mang? Dat wucha callin me!

    I don't lie man.

    What I paraphrased and remember you saying , fits to a tee what you said.( I remember you saying something about him not going in the first three rounds, and lookie here, you actually said you didn't think he would go til the third)
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's what I asked you after your first response,

    That's not criticism....I simply paraphrased a conversation we had and asked you very respectfully if you would share why we were so far apart on the player.

    I think your fuse was a little quick.
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not all qbs respond to pressure like David Carr, some thrive on it, some it brings out the best in their skillset..noone said he has to be rushed in to stop, but you can rest assured if I need a Qb, and Mariota is on the board in the first, no matter where it is, the prospect is elite, you make the pick.

    This is an elite Qb prospect at 20 years old..all the better..
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think you're back tracking now. You yourself labeled what you did as "calling (me) out". Now all the sudden you were just innocently asking what I thought of the player and I am seeing things that aren't there? No I'm pretty sure I know what you were doing and it's my right not to particularly like it, or to particularly enjoy being misrepresented and having to go on search missions to find exact statements so as to set the record straight. If you HAD simply and respectfully asked what I think of the player or what flaw I see then you would have gotten a sincere answer from me.
     
  23. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    When I see Mariota sit in the pocket and pick a team a part with his arm and not his legs, I will rate him high.
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think you took it the wrong way..but I wasn't off on what I believed you said at some point last year, so please with the mis characterization stuff.

    Anyhow,
    "You must see some serious flaws in his game, could you share"
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why try to conform this prospect, you don't have to sit in the pocket to win in this league anymore, even though I believe this kid is as effective with his arm as he is with his legs, if you draft this kid you set him up in his style of offense that captiolizes on every once of this amazingly talented player.

    He's twice the prospect Bortles is, better prospect then cam newton, much better passer then newton, has every bit the talent from the waist below, more speed..

    He was 19 years old last year..lol, and he tore college football up..he's now put on 10 more lbs of muscle, gained some speed,and is looking to do whatever's necessary to Perfect the craft, his precision in all movement on the field truly blows me away.

    Easy breasy blue chip prospect..
     
  26. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I like Marcus as much as anyone here, but that is definitely not a fact, that is merely an opinion.
     
  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Whenever a team drafts a QB in the top 10 there seems to be more pressure and or inclination to get them into the starting lineup sooner rather than later. How well MM would respond to a situation similar to what Carr faced is anybody's guess. You can say he'd handle it better but that is just speculation. I am glad MM decided to get another year of seasoning and development at the college level and IMO in the long run he will be better off for having done so. If he did get drafted by a team smart enough to let him be the #2 and hold a clipboard for a year or two, there is no way I believe that would be better for him than starting at Oregon. Look at what the best QBs of the past 15 yrs do. Peyton and Luck for example, they maximize the amount of time they spend developing at the college level. Not getting into some all fired hurry to declare for the NFL asap.
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought it was clear is was my opinion, I didn't say fact.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm fine with him going back another year, good for him, doesn't change my stance where he would of gone if he were in this draft.
     
  30. ILDolPhan

    ILDolPhan New Member

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    I assume you don't have Manziel rated very high then...
     
  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    not following you?
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's not that I disagree with heading this direction. It's pretty clear the NFL is phasing out some of the pocket passers that could survive and thrive in yesteryear. You've still got guys that can win and be incredible players that way but those guys are sort of grandfathered in because they've been playing the game so long their depth of understanding and the thorough understanding the coaches have of them makes up for the shortfall in ability to make defenders miss. New players that play the game that way are finding the barriers to entry too hard to overcome.

    But I think when change is happening and people recognize that, the quick shift in priorities can lead people to marginalize issues that are still of critical import, or to make other issues more important than they actually are.

    Mariota's future may be to develop into the kind of passer that survives and thrives in the NFL. But right now, as of 2013 anyway, he was not that.
     
  33. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    The pro style offense is being phased out because teams have finally, finally figured out that for a successful transition of college QB to the NFL, a team must let that QB do what he did successfully in college, rather than changing that QB to fit the OC's scheme.
     
  34. ILDolPhan

    ILDolPhan New Member

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    I was referring to the below post.


    Originally Posted by KB21
    When I see Mariota sit in the pocket and pick a team a part with his arm and not his legs, I will rate him high.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    While that may be true, that he wouldn't of quite been ready to excel on the pro level at 20 years old, my point is he played outstanding in his Sophmore year, which was easy to project after his freshman year, and if he did come out after last year, I don't believe any GM let alone 32 would of passed in this dudes talent twice making him a third round pick..

    Your evaluation is baffling to me, I might be wrong, but I believe he would of went top 3 this year, and will do the same this year..
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Last year I stated there was just something up with Winstons personality I don't trust, I questioned when most were drooling..and was right to do so.
     
  37. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    He is certainly showing very questionable off field traits that make his judgement and personality very suspect. Will be interesting to see how the other QBs step up this year though.
     
  38. JOHN_M

    JOHN_M New Member

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    Crab legs will never amount to much in the nfl!

    SENT FROM MY LG G-FLEX ON SPRINT........LIFE IS GOOD
     
  39. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Right now there's not a single quarterback that is guaranteed to go Top 15 from next year's prospects, at least from my point of view... someone will surprise though and be that guy but it likely isn't any of the top 5 prospects people are talking about.. unless they make a huge jump in all facets of their skill...
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    wanna bet?
     

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