1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Fins "apparently" have a 1st round grade on Ja'Wuan James

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by UCF FINatic, Apr 27, 2014.

  1. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    Hoping this is a smokescreen..

    http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9537/jawuan-james
     
  2. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    Also I've noticed there have been A LOT more leaks about who we are supposedly interested in this year compared to last year. Probably isn't a good thing unless they are all smokescreens, which I doubt. This years draft is starting to remind me of the Tannehill draft. Everyone and their mother knew we wanted a QB and would take Tannehill if he was there. Now its the same thing except with the OL.
     
  3. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I like James and think he can play in the NFL, but 19 seems a little rich for him, considering who else, BPA wise, should be available.
     
    sports24/7, ToddPhin and jim1 like this.
  4. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

    3,840
    636
    0
    Feb 26, 2013
    That's a fair grade, based on who is projected in the second round.

    I think his main issue is foot and hand technique in pass pro. If you watch youtube on him, he rarely does the kick, punch, recoil, if ever. His technique is poor in that respect and prbly the main reasons he gets beaten when he does. But you can also see that he has the foot quickness and strength and athleticism to do it. So I really don't know why he does not do it. He takes false steps, latches onto the numbers like guard (which saves him a lot times, but no punching). I refuse to think they did not teach him technique at Tenn. Otherwise he looks like a solid 1st rounder.
     
  5. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

    13,057
    8,875
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Hamilton, Ontario Canada
    Don't see how. The media has been spot on about our first round choice for years now. The only one they didn't going back years now is Dion Jordan....but they had predicted the trade up. This year we've been connected to every OL from Lewan to James. We've been connected to LB and to WR.
     
  6. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

    5,783
    1,931
    113
    Apr 17, 2008
    I should have said that I didn't expect that trend to continue after hiring a new GM along with Gaine leaving. Got to wonder how this information is getting out though.
     
  7. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,215
    1,896
    113
    Mar 10, 2013
    Buckeye Land
    Where in the first is my question. 19? I hope not. 32? Maybe.

    Yup.
     
  8. gilv13

    gilv13 Well-Known Member

    2,540
    1,327
    113
    Aug 23, 2009
    Mark Dominik (former GM of Bucs) posted on his twitter earlier in the week that he thinks James goes in the first round. I am not sure if he's heard that from a team, or that is own prediction. Take it for what its worth.

    https://twitter.com/MarkdominikESPN
    (It's the 2 April 23rd tweets)
     
  9. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    I don't... b/c if Hickey has a 1st round grade on James, it would mean there's a good chance we go Beckham, Cooks, Lee, Seferian-Jenkins, or Cody Latimer [dark horse] in round 1 and then target James in round 2 where he poses greater value and certainly poses greater value than Martin or Moses in round 1. I say this because nobody is drafting JaWuan James before our #19 pick; therefore, if Hickey wanted him badly enough in the 1st round he could have him, which means there'd be no reason for him to spend so much time on 1st round receivers.

    Hickey has also shown interest in Billy Turner, which I'm guessing is Plan B.... and then Michael Schofield and Duvernay-Tardif as mid round fallback options. This further adds to the notion James won't be our 1st round pick for the same reason above- why bring in Billy Turner recently or show interest in Schofield & Duvernay if Hickey can simply have James in round 1? Receiver on the other hand features a slew of 1st & 2nd round prospects Hickey has checked out, but only one draftable receiver beyond that- Robert Herron. This tells me Hickey isn't messing around at WR and is fixated on walking away with a playmaker in the first two rounds. 1st round WR appears to be plan A both because of how many he's shown interest in and because Hickey would have more fallback options than just Herron if second round WR were plan A, just as he has a trio of fallback options [Turner, Schofield, and Duvernay] for JaWuan James & Joel Bitonia, and they're tiered at that, meaning he's provided fallback options in multiple rounds for added insurance. Hickey has similarly tiered the receivers but it starts heavily in Round 1 and ends sooner than right tackle, another clue that he ideally plans on drafting WR before RT.

    I threw in Latimer as the dark horse because Chip Kelly and his OC Pat Shurmer were among 25 teams attending his recent workout, with Philly going so far as having their WR coach Bob Bicknell running most of the workout. Now, if Philly feels this strongly about Latimer's fit in their offense, then I'm guessing Hickey might share that sentiment for Lazor's offense, and if Philly is willing to jump on Latimer at #22, then what's 3 spots earlier at #19? He's a better fit than Marqise Lee b/c he gives us what we're missing that Lee doesn't- a physical, big bodied presence ala Riley Cooper.

    There's a wrinkle here with Latimer and that involves San Fran who spent 1.5 hours after the workout with him, going over the playbook and all. They have extra picks in rounds 2 & 3, so they could be inclined to send us a late 2nd to swap 1's and bypass Philly, and if needed we could swap 4's to balance it out. Then at #32, our top TE target Seferian-Jenkins comes into play, along with Marqise Lee [if he's still on the board], Kelvin Benjamin, James, and Joel Bitonia, or maybe even another short trade back. Then at either #50 or a short trade up from there, which is feasible with the additional 2nd rounder providing better flexibility, James, Bitonia, and Benjamin could still be in play, along with his additional prospects of interest- Carlos Hyde, Moncrief, and Martavis Bryant. And with the #61 pick pick, Bryant & Moncrief could remain in play, plus the additions of Billy Turner, his corners of interest [Phillip Gaines & Marcus Roberson], another RB of interest [Tre Mason], and his LB of interest [Carl Bradford]. Round 3 targets look to consist of fallbacks at RT & WR [Billy Turner & Robert Herron] and RB [Tre Mason, Devonta Freeman, Terrance West], but it seems Hickey wants WR & RT out of the way so that he can grab a back here. In the 4th & 5th he's got Guard, CB, and QB, with more fallbacks at RT & RB. The 6th round features 2 DE's along with more fallbacks at Guard, RT and RB.
     
    UCF FINatic likes this.
  10. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    all the alleged interest in taking a tackle in the 1st round is probably a smoke screen, especially when it's all over the place with Lewan, then Kouandjio, and Martin. Hickey wants the NFL to think he's absolutely coveting RT with the #19 pick so that it hopefully serves to deter anyone from bypassing him for his real targets, Beckham or Cooks, should either one still be on the board at 17 or 18, especially with how close their draft floor proximity is to our pick. With the Eagles & Chiefs eyeballing receivers at #22 & 23, I would hate to give them reason to scoot ahead of us.
     
  11. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    6,974
    3,564
    113
    Jan 8, 2008
    I think JuWuan James is overrated. When I watch him against Missouri or South Carolina I see an NFL back up. I see a guy who is probably a good run blocker but a poor pass blocker. His kick and slide and anchor isn't very good. He could be coached up but he doesn't look very strong or athletic enough. I don't come away impressed and I think it could be a year or 2 before he sees a starting spot.

    [video=youtube;CR0oRjADlcs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR0oRjADlcs[/video]

    [video=youtube;79TIF73Ooe0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79TIF73Ooe0[/video]
     
  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Ja'Wuan James

    Joel Bitonio

    :yes:
     
  13. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    6,974
    3,564
    113
    Jan 8, 2008
    I actually think Michael Schofield is a better tackle than JA'Wuan James. Schofield is a guy I can start at RT immediately. I watched Schofield play well against MSU, Notre Dame and Nebraska. You watch Randy Gregory (best DE in next years draft) of Nebraska who went up against Lewan in the first half then Schofield in the second half and see him get handled well by Schofield.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  14. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I believe Schofield got completely and thoroughly owned in the Senior Bowl, if I'm not mistaken.

    I don't see what you do with JaWuan James. I think that sack by Markus Golden (whom I've got tabbed for watching closely for 2015) may be the only time I've seen James beaten in pass rush in what I would deem to be a fair fight.

    I've been watching James for multiple years. He's big. He's VERY strong. He's got surprising agility and feet. He's extremely smooth and VERY consistent. He made Michael Sam look undraftable. He also did the same to Dee Ford when they played.

    Dante Fowler got him on one play I saw, a play I don't consider to be a "fair fight" so to speak because James was forced to block down before re-directing back out to pick up Fowler.

    I've seen him go up against Taylor Hart, Tony Washington, Dante Fowler, Ray Drew, Chaz Sutton, Michael Sam and Dee Ford and shut them all down. And that was just 2013. He's been shutting players down from that side since 2012. I believe he shut down Jarvis Jones and Cornelius Washington. He did that thing again where he made a guy look undraftable except this time it wasn't Michael Sam, it was Devin Taylor who blew up the Shrine Game, was drafted 4th round by the Lions, and who was even more efficient than Dion Jordan this year.
     
  15. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    6,974
    3,564
    113
    Jan 8, 2008
    This disagreement is not a fair fight because I don't watch as much tape as you.
     
    ckparrothead likes this.
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    One bonus about James is IF he doesn't work out at right tackle, and that's a big if to me because I think he'll work out fine there, much like Orlando Franklin whom I've seen as a comparison from the start...you could probably slide James inside to guard and he has the agility, balance and power to make that work.

    His playing guard is a roll of the dice, not something you can count on, but there's enough on tape to make you think it could work out and it adds a little bit of value to him because he has both a primary position and a potential secondary position.
     
    ssmiami and ToddPhin like this.
  17. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I think that bonus would also pertain to some of the other tackles, such as Schofield and Mewhort too.
     
  18. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

    8,365
    4,211
    113
    Jan 5, 2010
    the next dimension
    If it were I, I would bet on either James, Moses, or Kouandjio being there at 50. Worse comes to worse Billy Turner is not a bad option either.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I have my doubts about them moving inside. There's always been a balance, agility and pad level to James' game that suggests he could shift inside. Not sure I see the same with Mewhort or Schofield but who knows.
     
  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    None of them will be available at 50 so it isn't much of a bet. The question comes down to how comfortable you are with Billy Turner at right tackle as a rookie, considering he's never played there before and he struggled trying to play there in the Senior Bowl. And even he might not be available at that pick so you could be down to guys like Mewhort, Schofield and Lucas. I'm comfortable with Lucas but he's never played that side before so you never know.
     
  21. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    8,215
    1,896
    113
    Mar 10, 2013
    Buckeye Land
    I could live w/ that.
     
  22. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    Ja'Wuan James had the second worst bench press performance at the combine, tied with Matt Patchan at 22 reps and only one better that the last place finish of Kouandjio at 21. That doesn't strike me as very strong, his lower body strength and blocking look good not great imo.

    Kouandjio got blasted for a lousy combine and James was near the bottom in speed as well clocking in a 5.35. That being said, James is a good player, strikes me as the kind of guy that will have a nice ten year career, maybe Anthony Collins style. Pretty good run blocker, nice quick feet on the guy, steady player, he'd be fine at RT imo and would protect Tannehill well. Just not a 1st rd pick imo, not a compelling enough talent. Brandin Cooks at #19 and James at #50 I'd be ok with, nice combo there. But I'd rather have Cooks/Van Noy/James/Turner.
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I was wrong about Schofield in the Senior Bowl I think. I believe it was Mewhort who got schooled by Dee Ford so bad. I get the two confused.
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    JaWuan James did not have a bad Combine at all. I believe NFL Draft Scout has finally fed in the SportsXchange forty times in place of the mickey mouse "official" times which overstate everyone across the board by like a tenth of a second. The SportsXchange times are more apples to apples in comparing with historical numbers.

    JaWuan James ran a 5.26. He did a 29 inch vertical which only Jake Matthews, Taylor Lewan and Matt Patchan bested. He had a 4.56 shuttle and 7.42 cone which again only Jake Matthews and Taylor Lewan bested. His 8'7" broad jump was decent.

    Medians for the position over time are a 5.28 forty, 24 bench reps, 28.5 inch vertical, 8'6" broad jump, 4.75 shuttle and 7.85 cone drill. He was above median in every single category except bench reps where his long arms work against him. He has an 82 inch wingspan. Only Morgan Moses (84 inch) and Cornelius Lucas (88 inch) have bigger wingspans at the position, and neither of them have bench pressed for teams (or at least their results are not known). His cone drill time ranks him well within the top 10th percentile historically and his shuttle time is just outside the 10th percentile.

    I don't know what gave you the impression that JaWuan James had a bad Combine but I don't think there's much backing to the idea.
     
  25. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    but James also has long 35" arms.
     
  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    The other thing I haven't seen mentioned with respect to James & Martin is- Martin oddly enough could be viewed as the fallback option to James even though he'd be the one drafted first. So let's say you draft Martin at 19 if he's there. Then if James is on the board at 50, you draft him and slide Martin to guard. If James is off the board at 50, Martin becomes the right tackle as the fallback plan. If O-line happens to be the priority and Hickey can live with Robert Herron in round 3/4, then that's the way I would do it.
     
  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Bench is fun to check and fun to watch but it means little when predicting NFL success for an OL. With OTs, look at their vertical, and broad jumps and their 3 cone. James did great in two of those. His VJ was 29" and was 4th among OTs at the combine behind only Patchan, Lewan and Matthews. His BJ was middle of the pack, but his cone was the 3rd fastest behind Matthews and Lewan. If we include Bitonio as a guard, he was better than James too, but James cone and VJ equaled or bettered every other guard. If combine results mean anything, James performance in the VJ and the cone bodes very well for his success.
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Moses had the 4th best broad jump among tackles at the combine, but was poor in the VJ and 3 cone. If it came down to Moses or James at 19, the only reason to take Moses would be that he may be able to move to LT someday, based on his experience. We don't know if James could though it's not impossible. James just looks really good actually playing RT, efficient and effective. Then if we want to compare the workout numbers most likely to predict success, James ticks the box on 2 of 3, and was middling in the 3rd one. Moses did well in 1 of the 3, and was downright bad in the other two.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I hear you and it's sound logic but I don't think there's any assuming at this point that JaWuan James makes it to 50, not even on an "if" basis. He's too well liked now that offensive line coaches have stuck their foot in the evaluation process.

    I think in all likelihood Zack Martin is a left guard but I just don't know if he's a great left guard and I don't know why I'm drafting him over Xavier Su'a-Filo or even Trai Turner or Spencer Long. And to be honest I think Miami already signed their left guard via free agency.

    That's pretty much where I'm at on Zack Martin. If I'm wrong so be it. We'll see how he grades when he plays football in the NFL. I have a tough time predicting he ends up the next Evan Mathis, Carl Nicks or Marshall Yanda...which is exactly what you're doing if you take him at 19.

    With Shelley Smith in the fold and him being better and more experienced at left guard than right guard, to me it just makes TOO MUCH damn sense to target guys like Trai Turner or Spencer Long in the draft because they have the unusual explosiveness and athleticism we are seeking in this zone blocking scheme, and they also play right guard which is a little bit of a rarity.

    And if you want to fill your need at right tackle then you can take a guy like JaWuan James or Morgan Moses and be pretty damn sure you've done exactly that without putting a guy out there that is going to struggle like a Jonathan Martin.

    And if we really ARE on the right track with the likes of Ryan Tannehill and Mike Wallace, Charles Clay, Brian Hartline, Branden Albert, Knowshon Moreno, Lamar Miller, Cortland Finnegan, Dion Jordan, Jamar Taylor, Reshad Jones and Louis Delmas...then isn't that what you want? Fix the big holes and let your good players play good?

    Personally I don't think we are on the right track so I'd keep trying to add some star power.
     
    ToddPhin and TooGoodForDez like this.
  30. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    32,925
    41,463
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    I'd be fine with James if we trade down. If we stay at 19 it would be a pretty big reach IMO and would completely fly in the face of the notion that Hickey will go BPA. That would scream "we need a RT and this is the best we can do here".
     
  31. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    I'd prefer Sua-Filo to Martin at guard as well if that's what we were specifically after. I'm still a Dozier fan though and love his value. I'd be down with the other 2 guards you mentioned. So regarding what you're saying about taking James or Moses, are you referring to doing it at 19 and just getting it out of the way?
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Yeah, I mean you might as well. If you really believe this team competes in 2014 then you've got to fix the big holes. Big holes tank seasons regardless of talent.
     
  33. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    True point. Well if there's a draft to slightly reach for a need it's this one, no, with its depth and all. I'd feel better though if it involved a trade back and then used that ammo as an option to turn 50 into an impact player like Seferian-Jenkins to make up for not taking an impact player in round 1.
     
  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    well, at least James being a full time RT in college rather than a LT works in our favor as far as lasting till #50 since the position doesn't care quite as much value as its counterpart.
     

Share This Page