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Draft strategy depends on what kind of team we want to be.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If it's what the owner wants..offense wins.

    I believe with how deep the draft is for Olineman and if lewan is not there at 19, then you go with one of three weapons, Cooks/Lee/Beckham.

    I say that for two reasons, one, the draft is deep in our most glaring need, oline, two, I feel confident I could find two upgrades in talent Over the sloppy out of shape Clabo and Jerry, without having to spend our first round pick to do so, so our GM should be able to pull it off.

    I also say this because I don't have Mosley or Shazier above those three receivers, so going defensive doesn't make sense, the value just isn't there, unless an Anthony Barr drops.

    So go with the weapon, then in the 2nd, get some improved blocking for the LOS and complete a tight end unit that would become beautifully balanced with the drafting of Troy Niklas..a Niklas/Clay combo with Cooks/Lee/Beckham taking advantage of that space Wallace provides, add a consistent three down solid option in the backfield with Moreno and you have a legit offense.

    There will be plenty of Olineman that can upgrade those two spots after that..

    We can move up a little after that and maneuver thru the draft to target a plug and play starter..
     
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  2. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    My draft strategy would be to address 4 things: 1) right side of the Oline, RG, RT and possibly TE, 2) find the redzone WR, 3) find the kick returner, and 4) pick up a NT for short yardage. And all that by staying put or trading down.

    I already posted in the draft thread. I would draft Benjamin at 19, then follow up with Billy Turner and Trai Turner, get Dri Archer, and McCullers or Ellis. I would plan on playing Benjamin at TE split or tight and in red zone. (I am not keen on playing 2 rookies at the line, but I think that is what we are left with.)
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think my draft strategy is the same as yours, I'm just trying to get the best value from our slots in the draft.

    I simply cannot imagine going into the season with the same skillset players, and were not gonna have one break into any position unless they possess a hell of a lot of talent.
     
  4. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    i think adding more speed to this offense is a good strategy, cooks and seastrunk on this team would come a long way in simulating the speed that the eagles have on offense....cooks, seastrunk, wallace.....nightmare matchups
     
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  5. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    I am not a fan of drafting a general WR, like Cooks or Beckham. We have those guys. Other than Oline, where we need every down starters, I would draft specialists, players with special skillset for specific situations, which is what we lack, I think.
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If your gonna have the most dangerous deep threat in the league than you need a receiver that can take advantage of space, all three can do that, Nicklas running over some folks sounds right too, as well as what he can do to a pathetic run blocking unit last year..he doesn't show his cards When he steps on the field, he can catch.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dez, we have no skillset that is as talented and precise as Cooks, Beckham, or Lee.
     
  8. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Evans would not be included in those three WR's dj?
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Who do we have like Cooks?
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    don't think he will be there, I think there is a good chance that one of the three I mentioned will be, and I'd be happy with any of the three.

    If we draft oline with our first pick were looking at three first rounders and with Pounceys contract coming up, looking at a lot of money devoted to that unit..I think the value in the draft is the depth at oline, and that happens to be our biggest weakness.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wallace is very fast, but he is not a player with precision quicks and lateral agility..
     
  12. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I'm okay waiting until 3rd round to get a lineman, whether it be guard or tackle. we can then backfill to fill the final position and still have a good line.
    Not sure I"m okay with drafting a WR in the 1st round unless I think he's going to dominate the game, similar to AJ Green or J Jones. You either trade up to get that superstar WR or you wait to later rounds to fill the need (at least 2nd round).
     
  13. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    We have Wallace and Hartline, and Matthews. We have that quick comeback/slant skill set. I see lack of redzone threat as a bigger issue than increasing speed at WR. I like Cooks, I think he is 1st round talent. I just don't think we really need that. I feel that way about a lot of other players fans like, Kenaan Allen for example, to me is just meh, does not move the needle.
     
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  14. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I don't buy into Miami being covetous of Lewan all that much. While they may like him, I doubt they have any interest in him beyond drafting him if he makes it to 19. I don't see us paying that big a price for Albert then burning our highest valued remaining resource on a RT. A trade back is very reasonable IMO. Only way we trade up is if a special talent falls (think Donald).
     
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  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think those three receivers will present BPA, I don't think we need a corner, I don't think Mosley and Shazier are better than the three receivers, we don't need Dlineman..and we surely need an explosive weapon for this stale offense..

    Beside these three receivers, realistically, who is gonna be available that we should take over one of them and who would provide more impact?
     
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  16. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    agree 100%. Our offense does a good job of moving the ball down the field. but when the field shrinks when we get near the endzone, we have no one that can dominate and bring down the ball for a TD in a tight space.
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    the more you point out, the farther I get from agreeing with you.keenan Allen is just meh?, what the hell is brian Hartline then?
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    27th. In offense tells me it's not just a red zone thing, tells me we need more weaponry...do you think were gonna improve offensively by Majic?, what's gonna make us better?.... A legit weapon is needed to take advantage of others skillsets..

    The tight end in the 2nd is about complimenting Clays skillset..

    Rebuilding the oline, new system, same skillset players, I really don't think that's the right approach.
     
  19. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Sorry, I meant as far as draft decisions. I have Hartline and Wallace, Allen is on the board, Allen does not move the needle because I have Hartline and Wallace. Maybe that makes it clearer.
     
  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Exactly, Dolphins need a player with RAC skills. Dolphins were third worst in the NFL with 4.81 average yards after catch.
     
  21. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    A TE that can dominate in the redzone would be my first choice. ANd I think you're completely underestimating how much impact rebuilding the Oline can have on moving a team from 27th upwards. Any WR you draft at 19 likely will be our 3rd WR in 2014.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That seems like significant interest though. If he makes it to 19 he's the guy? I'd say that's pretty heavy interest, no?
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They still have to play together, all learning a new system, I just don't think you can think by rebuilding an oline it's gonna be the answer to our offensive woes, we need a receiver with precision quicks, and we need to compliment Clay, now we have a draft that's deep in Olineman, I say we go for the weapons early and hope that hickey has talent to recognize oline talent later, remember, we had garbage there last year.
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think one thing to keep in mind, something I told DJ in another thread when he mentioned drafting a WR in the 1st and Troy Niklas in the 2nd...is that the two players cannibalize one another to some degree. Your 3rd WR isn't going to be on the field while your 2nd TE is on the field, and vice versa. I wouldn't call it a deal-breaker especially since down the line you expect your 1st round WR to take the place of Hartline or Wallace. But it's a factor when you're talking about a 1st/2nd round combo pairing.

    But maybe you don't need Niklas to come on the field except in the red zone, and you don't need a Brandin Cooks to be on the field except between the 20's. If that's what you have in mind then so be it. I'm still not sure if that's bang for our buck, though...especially when the OL is still kind of a wreck.

    Personally I have Allen Robinson above Beckham and Cooks.

    The reason is ultimately I don't trust Cooks and Beckham to handle NFL style physically demanding coverage as much as I do Allen Robinson. Cooks has shown ability to finish in physical situations. Beckham has shown that ability once in a blue moon. I think both of them kind of need their speed to have created a comfort zone for them to set up and jump for the finish. But I'm a little disturbed by what I see from both Cooks and Beckham when they're facing tight, physical coverage from guys who can actually play.

    This showed up for Beckham a lot against Jason Verrett, Vernon Hargreaves (who is just a true freshman), all through the Texas A&M game as well as throughout the Auburn game which didn't even feature their best corner Chris Davis. I mean when you really look at Beckham's production he amassed 416 yards and 7 total touchdowns against Furman, Kent State and UAB. That leaves only 736 receiving yards and 2 TDs in the other 10 games. Are we sure he'd really help us score touchdowns?

    Cooks is a better player than Beckham, in my opinion. But he also showed a similar weakness against physically demanding coverage like he saw in the Arizona State and Oregon games, particularly the latter when faced up with Ifo Ekpre-Olomu. To his credit, he still produced 209 receiving yards in those two games. But it was a bit weak and took a lot of at-bats (29 attempts, 7.2 yards per target)...and like I said the production tended to not be when he faced NFL type coverage.

    It's enough that I'd go with Robinson over both players because in addition to Robinson having the explosiveness and agility to create separation, he's virtually unphased by physically demanding coverage. I've seen the guy take jabs and and jams on the run and not even lose a step or slow down a bit. He's a strong, powerful player and seems comfortable with physical coverage. He won't be dominated by lengthy corners because he's lengthy himself.

    And then on top of that, Robinson also gives you red zone ability as he's able to finish catches as good as anyone. I have to have seen about half a dozen catches he's finished despite blatant pass interference (often flagged). That's about the highest compliment I can give a guy when it comes to finishing in a way that translates to the NFL...illegal coverage, and you caught it anyway instead of being one of those guys that gives up and then lobbies for the flag after the fact. And as a nice bonus, Robinson has RAC plays that are purely brilliant. It's a little bit different style of RAC than a Brandin Cooks (and certainly different from Beckham, whose RAC abilities are not really special beyond his pure speed), but it's just as effective if not more so.

    Gotta go with my gut on this one...as far as Robinson is concerned.
     
  25. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    At that point value factors in as well. If you view him as a top talent who shouldn't make it to your spot, but not enough to trade up for him, then him falling to you produces value based on the team's rating of Lewan. I buy into the philosophy that the amount of picks you have is more important than the position of the picks (to a degree of course). I don't value first round picks as much as the next guy.
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Fine!

    Cooks in round 1
    Robinson in round 2
    PROBLEM SOLVED!

    EDIT:

    Also, THE NFL CAN GO @#$@ THEMSELVES. Jerks making the draft later in the year.
     
  27. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I get what you're saying. I just don't see the value of any WR at 19 unless one of the top 2 somehow plummet to the point we can trade up a couple of spots to grab them. Then, I"m all for getting the weapon in the 1st. But spending the 1st round pick on your 3rd WR is blatantly picking for need and you'll end up deficient. First round pick should be to upgrade one of your starting 22 players. A stud TE goes farther as far as impact than a 3rd WR (only because I believe Gibson and Mathews bring way more value than any 2nd TE we currently possess).
     
  28. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think you get that much of a choice. There will be a small minority of quality players in the draft, and you don't get to really pick what positions they play or when they're available. I don't think you can really afford to be dictated by anything other than the players that are available to you, you can't really go chasing a plan.

    The draft might look like it's deep in linemen, but that doesn't guarantee that many, if any end up being worthwhile.
     
  29. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    For our team specifically, the only WR worth taking a risk on in the first is Benjamin IMO. Ideally we wouldn't take one in the first at all.
     
  30. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    you mean of the receivers who have a reasonable chance of being there at 19? because if by some miracle Mike Evans were there I'd take like 3 seconds to turn the card in.
     
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  31. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    There is a philosophical question to be asked about drafting this year, imo. It's sort of but not entirely a long-term vs. short term question: BPA or the guys who will best help Tannehill develop.

    The BPA route leads me to seeking out players who are, imo, being undervalued in mocks I've seen. Guys like Kyle Fuller, Jason Verrett, Deone Bucannon, Caraun Reid, Will Sutton, Troy Niklas, Kyle Van Noy, Josh Huff, James White, Donte Moncrief.

    The Tannehill Support route, imo, would look to build the run game, protect him, and maybe give him another target. Lewan, Moses, Mason, Hill, Robinson, Huff, etc.

    I prefer to go BPA, but it's not an easy choice. Kyle Fuller vs. Taylor Lewan is a tough call, imo. As is Deone Bucannon vs. Jeremy Hill. I think the defensive player is going to end up having a better, higher-impact career in the long-term. But he doesn't do anything to help my young QB grow. That's the rub.
     
  32. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    Sammy Watkins....Jordan Matthews

    The only 2 receivers I would even consider in the top 3 rounds. Big, fast, playmakers who are used to being the #1 receiver.
     
  33. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Very Wolverine like post. :up:
     
  34. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the value for us at 19 probably is Oline. If we wait until the 2nd round or later we could be looking at taking the 10th Olineman in the draft versus the 4th possibly the 5th. We aren't in a position to get cute. If we pass on the Oline in the first round and the draft doesnt fall our way we could be **** out of luck. I think there are 4 or 5 guys that are worth taking at 19 in the draft on the oline and we are taking one of them. Its really the only glaring hole on the roster right now. I think we can get a really good WR prospect that fits our needs in the 2nd round easily. This is one of those times where everyone knows what our weakness is and I think with the draft so far off we are over thinking things, our team is going to go Oline in the first round unless there is such a run on tackles that we are looking at the 6th olineman in the draft or something like that, which is possible.
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I dunno. We were 8-8 and knocking on the door of the playoffs with the worst oline the Dolphins organization has ever fielded. I think our line has already dramatically improved. Waiting till the 2nd will not be a huge a problem and there will be plenty of worthy players available. If we have a shot at a Shazier/Mosley, Cooks, Ebron, etc. and still go oline I'll count that as a strike against Hickey.
     
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  36. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Even though it's not a dire need, I'd be thrilled as can be if we take Calvin Pryor at 19.
     
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  37. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I guess I'm not down for a safety at 19.
     
  38. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I can't imagine Watkins making it out of the top 10 so I didn't include him, Benjamin is the only other guy I would consider. I'm not a fan of WR in the first but his skill set would add so much to our offense that I would make an exception.

    Imagine him in the slot, where he lined up frequently at FSU. He'd be a major threat down the seam, a compliment to Wallace and Hartline who work primarily outside the numbers. He can move outside to block for the split end on any screen pass, move inside to pick off LBs or DEs on outside run plays to his side, or catch screens of his own against smaller DBs. He could also do damage on fades or smash routes.

    As as an outside WR he'd be a tremendous asset in the run game, able to handle any DB or S on the outside zone plays that Philbin loves. He's a terrific 50/50 ball guy who can bail Tannehill out when he's under pressure. He can run the dig/post combo w Wallace like no other WR we have and of course he'd be a nightmare in the redzone.

    The quick slant or stop route vs off coverage, back shoulder or fade routes vs press coverage. He'd cushion the blow of either Hartline or Gibson not being full speed to start the season, allow Gibson to move to his more natural position as a split end or flanker, and eventually replace Gibson or Hartline outright.

    His is weakness will be route running and picking up a complicated offense. Luckily he played for Fisher in college who runs a relatively intricate offense and used Benjamin all over the field. Plus, his size alone will give him separation much of time. I see him as potentially an Alshon Jeffrey type with arguably more natural ability.

    At worst he's a decent compliment to the guys we have and at best he'd be a a good/very good player in his own right w realistic shot of becoming a great player within a few years.
     
  39. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Couldn't you also say that we could wait until round 2 to grab a TE, LB or WR? I know the skill guys are more exciting but it's still surprising to see the level of reluctance about taking an OL at 19, especially after what happened last season.
     
  40. Brasfin

    Brasfin Well-Known Member

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    Besides QB (and the obvious kicker and punter), I think safety would be the position I'd be least excited about drafting in the 1st round.
     

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