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Dolphins to host Marqise Lee...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by vizi0n, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. vizi0n

    vizi0n Boom.. Club Member

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  2. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Meh. Many guys I would rather use a high draft pick on. Thanks for posting the info though.
     
  3. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    This guy is very talented, with BH coming off an injury. Lee is a very intriguing prospect.
     
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  4. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They're almost certainly investigating replacements for Mike Wallace. He's much easier to cut or trade next off-season, and it makes sense for them to attempt to investigate draft replacements a year ahead of time.

    They've also apparently spoken to Donte Moncrief, which would suggest serious interest in drafting the position high.
     
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  5. King Felix

    King Felix Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would love lee
     
  6. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    We all know you don't like Wallace. No need to bring it up in every single thread.
     
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  7. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Yeah, they have pretty similar skill sets IMO. I just don't see anything in his game that screams first round.
     
  8. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I certainly do, I think his route running is underrated. The Qb play for USC was atrocious and Lee paid for it. I see alot of Randall Cobb in his game

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
     
  9. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's fundamentally pertinent to the thread. Adding a receiver high means a restructuring of the roster and depth chart.
     
  10. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Don't USC receivers generally not translate well in the NFL, regardless of their collegiate talent level?
     
  11. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    That's a tad bit different from your original statement.
     
  12. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Easily canceled out by the atrocious defense being played in the Pac-12.

    I don't see him separating very much at all, neither before nor after the catch. I don't see elite speed, quickness, acceleration, elusiveness, size, etc I don't see elite anything.
     
  13. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Hmmm....I suggest watching his Sophmore year video. The one he won the Biletnokof award for the nation's best Wr.

    Also love how fluid he looks at catching with his hands.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
     
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  14. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I'm not saying he didn't have a great sophomore season or that he wasn't the best college WR that year. I'm saying I don't see the kinds of plays that would make me want to take him in the first round.

    For full disclosure I want no parts of any WR that high unless I'm confident he can come in and be a dominant force at some point in the first 2-3 years, if not sooner. Sammy Watkins has that look to him. Kelvin Benjamin and Mike Evans have the potential to become dominant players, Cooks as well. I see none of that in Marquise Lee. He looks like a run of the mill possession WR who will have trouble separating from NFL CBs, JMHO.
     
  15. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    That's a big assumption, one based on your own personal feelings about Wallace..... but the reality is our new GM could just as well be looking to replace the overpaid Hartline with a guy who is actually good after the catch and can offer greater impact production against the heavier dose of single coverage provided by Wallace.

    When you look at who Tampa brought in while Hickey was there, it wasn't bland possession receivers in the Hartline mold. It was guys who offered better big-play ability. Vincent Jackson, Mike Williams, Tiquan Underwood, Tim Wright. If Hickey prefers playmakers, as some GMs do, then Hartline would likely top his list of guys to replace. Based on the fact we're also looking at Donte Moncrief, I'd say there's a pretty fair chance Hickey indeed does prefer playmakers.
     
  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because Brian Hartline is light-years more cost effective and efficient than Mike Wallace. He's also more productive both in general, and in terms of 20+ yard receptions.
     
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  17. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    So Hartline is better than Wallace at getting deep?? Please tell me this is what you are hinting!

    Also in 2015 Hartline is due 7+ Million, Wallace 12+

    So much for light years.
     
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  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Based on the wide receivers that Miami is inviting for looks it's clear that they're either looking for Mike Wallace replacements or they want teams to believe they are. I don't know which it is but the pattern in the prospects is clear as day.
     
  19. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Since he is projected by many to be a late 1st rounder, could this be evidence of a possible trade back?
     
  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No? I said he's more productive in terms of 20+ yard receptions. It isn't even just this year. You basically have got go back to 2010 for Wallace to be better in that regard. It's a real long time to be holding a candle.

    There's also a rather big difference between those cap costs.
     
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  21. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    If Hartline had the same respect from defenses as Wallace does I have a hunch that would change really, really fast.
     
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  22. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Be ready. They're about to tell you that Mike Wallace doesn't really affect the way that defenses play. That it's all a myth :pity:.
     
  23. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Maybe, but what exactly does it matter when the corollary is that Wallace can't handle that kind of attention?

    Wallace is not subject to extraordinary measures, nor is Hartline subject to perfunctory. Wallace is defended in a certain kind of way that is respectful of his speed, and it is valuable, but it is a shift within the range of typical coverage shells. It is hardly the transformative, all-encompassing boon that it was billed as.

    It also doesn't really mean a tremendous amount in terms of justifying his cost.
     
  24. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    I'll spend more on a player who actually knows what the inside of an endzone looks like
    Both have been in the NFL for 5 seasons, one has 10 tds and the other has 37 tds.
     
  25. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And you put them in the same offense and he ended up with one more. Why not get a red zone specialist?

    I'm curious here, what exactly is a reasonable amount of time to chase what Wallace did a couple years ago on another team three offensive systems ago?
     
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's important to note that being invited for a closer look isn't always a good thing. A lot of times it indicates the player has been flagged for one reason or another and the team wants to get its arms around how that flag should affect the player's grade.

    Marqise Lee would have a number of potential flags that warrant a closer look.

    Even so if you look at the group of receivers they're showing explicit interest in with private workouts and visits, they're deep burners a la Wallace.

    My theory is that they're attempting to drum up trade interest for Mike Wallace. They can't be the team that calls another team about Wallace because the team making the phone call immediately loses leverage. So instead you put out signals and let other teams that are interested surface and make an offer. This is one way to do that. Putting out rumors that Wallace is available in trade and then vehemently denying them to the press is another way of doing that.
     
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  27. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Funny. Cant handle the attention. ...not like he was behind defenses all year or anything.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
     
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  28. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

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    I would be disapointed if they were not throwing up smoke screens. Its hard to tell what is true interest and what is played off as interest. If there was daily articles about Dion Jordan last year and us being interested in him perhaps that trade would have never been made as the Raiders would have had more time to try to get more value from the trade. I never buy 1 cent of this rumor mill gossip. Its fun to get excited about X player and hell its nice to have things to discuss this time of the year but....
     
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  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    not necessarily. How does Hickey looking at playmaking receivers translate solely to the replacement of Wallace? That could be over-thinking it. There's a very straight forward alternative here also, and that entails Hickey looking at receivers with playmaking ability simply b/c he prefers receivers with playmaking ability, which Miami obviously doesn't have an abundance of.

    I'm not saying you're wrong, but if the goal happens to be a reduction in WR salary, Wallace's contract isn't the only option. Hartline's contract is certainly enough to make a dent, especially if Hickey feels he can swap him out for a significantly cheaper receiver in the draft who better fits his vision and player blueprint.
     
  30. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I'd say more than one year. At least 2. See what he does this year (you already paid the guy a big bonus). Then judge it at the end of the year. Especially with a brand new offense and given the incredible dysfunction (on and off the field) of last year's offense. IMO.
     
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  31. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Personally, I'd like to keep both Wallace and Hartline this year and also, if a burner WR comes available in this draft - get him also. If it's a kid like Beckham, he can be a PR/KR and slot WR in 3, 4, or 5 WR sets and you can get an idea if he will be exceptional or not. He can be eased in versus making him a starter right away (which would likely hinder RT's development). It's tough for rookies to come in and excel.

    Of course, if they are really down on Wallace's work ethic, I can see that.
     
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  32. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And Wallace ended up having a horrible success rate on deep passes thrown at him. How does that suggest under-utilization, rather than a guy looking open after he wasn't a viable threat to receive the ball?
     
  33. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You've pretty much got to do that, given the circumstances.

    I don't think you should operate as if Mike Wallace is going to turn it around, however. You've seen his **** work ethic, you've seen his chemistry with your promising young quarterback and his lack of interest in improving it.

    You can't really sugar coat the fact that you got the same kind of mediocre performance from Wallace as the Steelers did in 2012. People should be drawing less conclusions about Tannehill and the team's offense, and more conclusions about Wallace and what Bruce Arians was willing to do to get him productive that others weren't.
     
  34. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    Oh, I agree. Seems like Hickey is doing more at this time than Ireland thought of doing right the last three years. (benefit of the doubt)
     
  35. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    That is ridiculous top to bottom, carry on though.
     
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  36. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    That is an interesting theory CK, I have to say I disagree. Lee can do everything on the field you want in a WR, and this time last year was a top 10 pick. With BH's injuries I believe it is a legitimate visit.

    If I were to believe it was window dressing, I would be more inclined to assume it was info on a player another AFC East team could take right before us. But some sort of message about Wallace?? Don't see it.
     
  37. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

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    Wasn't he projected to be a top 3 pick if he would've declared in the '13 draft? Timing is everything.
     
  38. Canad-phin

    Canad-phin Active Member

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    I would love to get Lee, he was so good early in his college career I find it funny how much he is being undervalued now. I'd love to have him and Wallace on the outside with Hartline in the slot. That to me is the best scenario of drafting Lee.
     
  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If you look at the list of players and you just see "play-making" ability and you don't see any other pattern then we're not on the same wavelength.
     
  40. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    what other pattern? Marquise Lee is a different player from Bryant & Moncrief.... and Bryant & Moncrief are fairly different from each other. If you're trying to suggest there's a "vertical presence" pattern among them that would be used to specifically replace Wallace, then I think that's a little bit of a reach b/c there are other guys better suited for such. Where's Cooks, Beckham, and Benjamin who are arguably better NFL vertical threats than Lee? Where's Paul Richardson who arguably trumps Moncrief if we're solely looking for a vertical threat replacement?

    The only common denominator I see is they can all make plays, and I personally wouldn't read more into it than that. I mean, there's no rule that says Miami can only have one playmaker at receiver, and there's no rule that says Hickey HAS to replace Wallace with a similar player. If he wants to ditch Wallace, he can replace him with any type of player he wants. Therefore, he's not looking at Moncrief, Lee, and Bryant as a replacement to Wallace; he's looking at them first and foremost because they fit a blue print or player type he covets. If this is to be Hickey's first receiver drafted in Miami, I'm sure it's gonna be one that he himself really wants and would sort of represent him putting his stamp on the team. Hence, if Bryant, Moncrief, and Lee share a similar mold to Wallace like you're suggesting, then what I'd deduce from that is Wallace also fits Hickey's mold by default. And if Wallace fits his mold, then there's a chance Hartline doesn't.... so if it comes down to saving some cap space, Hickey could just as well decide to do it by ditching Hartline's contract rather than simply choosing the more expensive one. I'm still not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying there are two distinct sides to this coin, and the reasons you're saying Hickey would replace Wallace are the same reasons to suggest it could be Hartline's spot in jeopardy.
     

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