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ILB or OLB?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Alan112, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. Alan112

    Alan112 Member

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    To improve our LB corps, would you rather draft an OLB or ILB? We could draft an ILB and have Ellerbe play more OLB or draft an OLB to replace Wheeler and keep Ellerbe at middle LB.

    Should we target LBs like Mosley, Barr, Shazier in the first round or wait for the second to get guys like Borland or Van Noy?

    I'm still wishing Denzel Perryman declared for the pros, maybe I'm being biased but would've loved to have him!
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If we can get Moses in 1 and Borland in 2, this draft is a major win.
     
  3. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think there should be a distinction between OLB positions- The Dolphins really shouldn't be in the market for an SOLB. Guys who play primarily on the line like Kyle Van Noy, Anthony Barr, etc. aren't particularly useful as the Dolphins have it as a strength already. Koa Misi is good, it's Phillip Wheelers best position, and Dion Jordan is almost certainly a better prospect than who we are likely to draft there, and they don't seem interested in that. It isn't a pass rushing position.

    They seem to be prioritizing an MLB. They went after D'Qwell Jackson, and there has been repeated discussion about their desire to move Ellerbe to WOLB and/or Wheeler to SOLB. There's also Jelani Jenkins looking like at least a good coverage substitute at OLB.

    Personally, I think Ellerbe sucked at basic linebacker stuff that isn't going to suddenly change at WOLB. They should be going after the best true linebacker, my preference personally is Ryan Shazier.
     
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  4. Air2theThrown

    Air2theThrown New Member

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    I cant see Barr being a fit in Miami or any 4-3 team for that matter. Barr is not a 4-3 Olber he lacks the skillset. He struggles to shed blockers. The only thing Barr does well is rush the passer. As a 3-4 OLBer I can see him having success as an upright blitzer but as a 4-3 LBer I don't think he can play it and here's why...

    He can't line up on passing plays as a DE and does not have the functional strength to play with his hand in the dirt. As a blitzer he just doesn’t have the most important pass rush of them all (the Bull Rush).The Bull Rush is the very foundation block for which all other pass rush moves are built off of. When you have that in your repertoire... you force OT’s to stay honest. Barr does have the Swin Move, a Spin move, and what’s also known as the “Slap Technique”. He just doesn’t have the most important one of them all. And that’s a big deal. A very big deal. Unlike say Khalil Mack who does..
     
  5. Air2theThrown

    Air2theThrown New Member

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    CJ Mosely would be a good fit as a MLB if you ask me.
     
  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think he'd certainly be a good fit, and he's probably the safer pick and coincides with the moves they wanna make, but I can't help but think that Shazier has higher upside and would prefer him if they were both there.

    The speed and aggressiveness for the big hit are just too appealing for me to pass up. Just watching how often he hits the quarterback on delayed blitzes because he's simply too fast to pick up when he gets a lane or the back doesn't go out into a pattern really strikes me as something that could be great in as blitz heavy a defense as Miami runs.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Ryan Shazier is a tough nut to crack. I keep getting Brian Urlacher stuck in my head.

    Thing is you watch enough of Shazier and you know the guy puts himself out of position a lot. But I remember when Urlacher used to do that too...and it didn't matter because he was so damn physically gifted he could get back into the play.
     
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  8. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I believe the two weakest units on the entire team are the offensive line and the LB's. I would have absolutely no problem if the Dolphins used their first round selection to take one of the top linebackers still on the board. Unfortunately I just don't see them taking anything but an offensive lineman with their first round pick, because right now they only have two reliable starters on that unit.

    I just don't see the linebacker position being upgraded during this coming season. Because of that, I think the Dolphins will continue to be ineffective against the run and this coming season looks like it is going to be another season in which the Dolphins will finish around 500 and out of the playoffs for the 7th straight year in a row.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think the C.J. Mosley versus Ryan Shazier debate will continue to haunt me a while.

    Chances are one of those guys is far better than the other. But which?

    You know it's pretty rare to get a MIKE linebacker prospect who can help you stop the run but who is also compelling in pass coverage. And I don't mean he's compelling simply because he can run a 4.6. Rolando McClain ran a 4.6 and I didn't think he was compelling in coverage. Dont'a Hightower ran a 4.6 and I didn't feel he was compelling in coverage.

    Mosley runs a 4.6 and is legitimately compelling in coverage. Plus he's good enough to be a good run stopper. I think that's kind of a rare beast coming out of college nowadays.

    On the other hand, how often do you see 6'1" & 240 lbs linebackers with 4.38 speed and a 42 inch vertical who also happen to average 10+ tackles a game, with 40+ TFLs to go along with 12 sacks and 7 forced fumbles...over the course of his last 26 games. Really not often.
     
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  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    In the end I think Ryan Shazier is probably more of a rare player and a bonafied 1st round pick. He's kind of an all-around guy that is going to be loved off the field by those that put enormous stock in character, on the field by those that put enormous stock in production, and in his underwear by those who put enormous stock in players being physically compelling.

    That's a lot of schools of thought running in your favor. The only thing really missing is the film where he can get himself out of position a lot. But then, that could be a minor sticking point because on film he's also making plays a lot with his instincts and athleticism. Sometimes guys just need a bit of coaching. But if you try and think about a player that could become legitimately one of the best at his position...Shazier has the makeup for that.

    Mosley probably does as well though.
     
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  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Give me the better coverage guy.
     
  12. phinswolverinesrockets

    phinswolverinesrockets If he dies, he dies

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    kevin pierre-louis, olb, boston college
    6'1, 232, 4.51 dash, 28 bench reps, 39" vert.
    2013 - 104 tackles, 10.5 tfl, 6 sacks, 1 int for td.
    possible 5th round pick
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Reality is I'm not even certain Shazier will be available at 19 overall.
     
  14. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wonder how much of that is what they're teaching defensively at Ohio State as well. A lot of those guys on their staff are not hand-picked guys by Urban Meyer, including defensive coordinator Luke Fickell, a holdover from Jim Tressell's staff who took over on the interim between Tressell and Meyer. Fickell is also Shazier's position coach - I wonder what he'd do if he had someone else teaching him. I think the majority of Ohio State fans would tell you that based on the recruits they bring in, the defense is not as good as it should be.
     
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  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Could very well be the case. There's certainly a disconnect with Ryan Shazier's instinctive play versus his production and athleticism.

    But in the end I'm steering toward thinking of it as him simply knowing he can do things on the field that most other guys can't, and so he's doing things that look strange to us like he shouldn't be doing them.

    One thing you learn to appreciate the more you watch him is he's almost NEVER out of a play.

    It's subtle. If you watch enough tape of linebackers you get a feel for how if the ball passes a certain spacing point with a certain angle, or if the linebacker got caught trying to attack a gap and now he's got an offensive lineman sealing him away from the ball carrier, most of these guys are done. That's it for them on the play. They took their shot and missed, and they don't have another in the clip. Ryan Shazier can keep going. He can loop around that seal block, wait for the runner to be delayed while making a cut, and then gobble the runner up. Or he can just back out of it, take a super-conservative angle, and just when the ball carrier thinks he's in the clear for a huge scoring play, he's nailed by Ryan Shazier.

    The guy is just almost never out of a play and that means the opposing offense has to work that much harder because he's never allowing anything to be easy.

    You combine that with his explosive blitz and attack capabilities and you have a pretty interesting player for Miami's scheme which utilizes a lot of linebackers attacking the A gaps.
     
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  16. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Touche. I did notice in several of his 2013 games, whether it's based on him being in during nickel packages or not, I'm not sure, but he plays a fair amount inside where you'd see a true Mike LB line up. Pure speculation on my part here, and this just may be me, but I can see them taking Shazier to play the middle if they're really intent on moving Dannell Ellerbe outside. Might be a bit unorthodox, but it'd seem to fit with what you're saying regarding Miami's propensity to sugar the gaps and do a lot of things through the A gaps.
     
  17. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Wow....I mean if moving ellerbe outside is feasible in this defense... ( not what I think ) Than we should just draft the best overall linebacker.
     
  18. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Both Shazier and Mosley will be be successful in the NFL imo. If I were to choose between the 2 it would be Mosley. I find him more instinctive,. He reads plays better and anticipates where the ball goes before it gets there. He's a student of the game, he organizes the defense on the field, gets people lined up and is still very productive.

    Shazier is an amazing athlete, is also a good LB and can MLB too but I would pick Mosley.
     
  19. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Omg omg omg omg

    I dont feel like ive been watching Brian Urlacher the past couple years.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
     
  20. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    CK,
    Assuming Shazier and Mosley are available at number 19 what OLinemen would have to be available for the 'phins to pass over them to pick an OL?
     
  21. Alan112

    Alan112 Member

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    Just Greg Robinson or Jake Mathews if you ask me. Some fans need to wake up and realize we're just not gonna draft Taylor Lewan after what happened last year. If Clinton Dix, Ebron, Mosley, and Shazier are still there.. we're in a tough situation
     
  22. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I wouldn't mind seeing a move to get Robinson...that kid is just ridiculous good.
     
  23. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Slightly left of center
    If its just a choice between ILB or OLB than best of if all else is equal. But we definitely need a serious upgrade at MLB. We have been trying to replace 54 almost as long as 13
     

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