Was going to post this in the Ralph Wilson thread but thought better of it. Ralph desreves his own thread and I don't want to derail it. With the passing of Ralp Wilson, queue the speculation of the Buffalo franchise being sold to Toronto. The MLSE organization is king pin here in Toronto; they own The Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors, and Toronto FC (MLS Soccer), plan on buying the Toronto Argonauts (CFL) and now have their sites on the NFL. However, as per NFL rules; That is where Jon Bon Jovi comes in; http://www.thestar.com/sports/footb...onto_inside_track_on_buffalo_bills_kelly.html For what it is worth, as a Canadian and Toronto native, I hope this doesn't happen. It is an American game and should stay there. We don't even have the culture to support it. When the NFL came to Toronto we couldn't even tailgate FFS. They had designated beer tents with beer available for purchase. If found with any booze outside of the tent areas whether it was purchased or brought would be result in a ticket. These rules may be relaxed as evidenced by the Maple Leaf's first playoff appearance in like 9 years. At the MLSE Square they set up a huge big screen tv for people to watch games and a liquor store was nearby, hard for cops to control the crowd, you can even see people holding beers in the front row, but there was a beer tent in that area - i am referring more to the fringe areaa; So who knows if public drinking laws may get relaxed, but overall, I still don't think the NFL belongs in Canada. I guess it is better than Europe but still.
Not sure why the NFL doesn't "belong" in Canada. TV ratings are strong there. Candians have historically supported the CFL. Canadian and American tases are pretty similar. They might have a political issue with the government concerned that allowing a permanent NFL team could irreparably harm the CFL, but I imagine something gets worked out. The NFL needs new markets, which is why they are pushing London so hard. Well, Canada is a large market and carries none of the logistical concerns London does. The NBA has proven successful in Toronto and the Grizzlies were very prematurely moved.
Not saying they won't be able to support the team, they most definitely will. I just don't like the idea is all, especially having a team in Europe, but you do bring up valid points about Godell expanding the nfl, but trust me, a team in Toronto isn't needed to open up the market. It's well rooted here already. EDIT: Fixed typos from mobile posting.
A Toronto NFL team will do very very well. Don't mistake the Rogers mistake having any value in what a team would mean here. The stadium most likely wouldn't be situated downtown. And the laws would be changed in a heartbeat to support tailgating in a more proper area. Not to mention a properly built stadium for football.
None of this mularkey of the NFL belonging in just the states. There is an audience outside the US as indicated by ratings, it is the one sport where you don't have an entirely big schedule. 16 season games is doable in terms of travelling and playing outside of the US. It's not like any sport with an 82 game schedule where travel logistics would be a nightmare. One game a year for Toronto isn't enough to establish an identity with the fans, it's still the Buffalo Bills. Meaning that if you aren't a die hard Bills fans you aren't going. If it was a Toronto Bills team playing in Toronto then it would be a different story. Frankly there's room enough for both the NFL and CFL since only a small portion of their seasons really overlap. The CFL would still act as a league where the NFL can find hidden gems like a Cameron Wake or Brandon Browner.
Hmm, tend to agree, for example the NBA could be popular in Canada, the Raptors are not a popular sports franchise (for example). The Bills going to Toronto was ended and when there received tepid support at best. Time will tell, do tend to agree with you though.
The problem with Toronto sports is the corporate ownership leading to mostly mediocre play. Raptors are 11th in home attendance so far this season. The fans come out if you put something entertaining on the table. That's why I like the NFL's rule about having a primary individual owner.
The Raptors are popular and are experiencing a renaissance of sorts. they hired one of the top GMs in the league and will make the playoffs. If Toronto can ever figure out a way to keep guys there, they have a chance to build something special. Vancouver too was very prematurely moved by the NBA. The franchise relocations were the ultimate black mark on Stern's legacy as almost all of them were the wrong decision.
That is part of the problem though - we never could; McGrady, Carter, Bosh, etc. among others. Big stars don't want to come to a Canadian or the Toronto market in particular dominated by the Hockey scene and the Maple Leafs. Look at Alonso Mourning, he was traded here and refused to play so he got traded the Miami and the rest is history. The Raptors are secondary to the city once hockey is on - and that is just a matter of fact. I don't think Toronto can generate the star appeal that playing in a US city can provide them either. With the exception of Vince Carter and the huge names, how many get US endorsement deals? Do you guys ever see a Raptor jersey on a billboard or on your local TV stations? Honest question that I can't answer; how much attention are the Raptors getting in the US? How much attention are our stars getting in the US? The lack of stardom may not be as apparent for the NFL players, but I think it is prevalent for our Raptors. I may be wrong though. Then there are financial burdens with higher income taxes, Canadian currency issues, etc.
Well, I don't see many Raptors jerseys, but I don't see many Milwaukee Bucks or Sacramento Kings jerseys either. And basketball players can be stars anywhere if they win. Oklahoma City is the smallest market in the league and one of the smallest in US professional sports and yet I am pretty sure you would recognize Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook by face. Hockey may be king, but there is room for other sports to succeed. The NFL will absolutely succeed. It's one game a week and there won't be much, if any, overlap with Leafs games. And like I said, if Toronto can find that one superstar and get him to stay they will be a really good team. If the Raps had tanked this year and gotten Wiggins maybe he would've stayed.
I am not doubting that we will be able to support a team, we will, and loyally. You mention Oklahoma City as the smallest market in the league. I bet you they still get more exposure, nationally (even when the stunk) but more so locally than the Raptors ever did. What else does Oklahoma have? Toronto.....not quite the exposure and or adoration level. My question is whether or not we will be considered an attractive destination for stars. Wiggins wouldn't stay just because he grew up close to the city. He'd jump ship to the biggest market and contract he can find, NY, MIA, BOS, whoever. As would I.
Again this comes down to consistent poorly performing teams. None of that was an issue when the Jays were a highly winning franchise. As for taxes it depends on your citizenship, where you live in the off-season, where you lived in the two prior years. But that really makes no difference since it's the same situation when you go from state to state (ie: Florida with their no state taxes etc). There's always going to be bias about every city out there. Plus it's also not as big a deal with the NFL because the players association handles all the big name clients and they are the middle man between sponsors and players.
