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MIA meeting w D'Qwell Jackson | Signs with Colts

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by slickj101, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    - rotoworld
     
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  2. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    YES YES YES!!!!

    Cut wheeler asap
     
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  3. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I'm thinking he's going to want quite a bit more than he's worth by the number of visits.

    Just hope we don't throw too much $ at him.
     
  4. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    hate to say it but Ross is paying wheeler 5m this year whether he's on the roster or not because of how his contract was set up. We're stuck with that bum for another year unfortunately.

    Hopefully we can get Jackson.
     
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  5. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Interesting. Despite the fact that they'll have to eat his cap number, I do think the Dolphins will look to cut Wheeler and improve at that position. This way Jackson plays MLB, and Ellerby moves over.
     
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  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I targeted him a few years ago when he became available, but they resigned him, we know he is a tackling machine, he's thirty, but we haven't had that type of consistent presence in the middle since Zach..Keep lineman off him and he will make a lot of plays, plays that we that we can take for granted at times but can be very effective in playing great defense.
     
  7. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    It would be a huge leadership upgrade, but his run stopping has been atrocious the last couple years.
     
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  8. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Raheem Club Member

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    Is worth whatever we'd pay him + Wheeler's cap hit? Because that's what it would be. That's a really big chunk for what might be a short term upgrade.
     
  9. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Do you have a PFF breakdown of that? I'd be curious to see whether he's been better or worse when Cleveland's been in a 3-4 or 4-3 since he's been in both styles. Again, I can appreciate them wanting go bring in a guy like Jackson...I just don't see it unless they're not afraid of dumping Wheeler (which they shouldn't be, regardless of the dead money issue).
     
  10. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    As I said last week, this would be a great signing for the leadership he brings alone. Smart of us to be interested in him. If the price is right, I would love to sign him.
     
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  11. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    You've made great points about why we should look at Jackson, but if he moves on to someone else, it'll be portrayed as him using the fins to get more money elsewhere...

    Besides...I don't see how they fit Wheeler/Ellerbe/Misi/Jackson in the lineup...they are paying Wheeler a lot whether he's here or not...so I still suspect that Jackson is a pipe dream for Fins fans...
     
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  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Even if you don't want Wheeler to start and cannot trade him it makes no sense whatsoever to cut him. At least keep him as an expensive backup since ya gotta pay him anyway. Same with Ellerbe who is really not any better from what I can see. If Wheeler is on the roster, he counts $6.4 mil against the cap. The dead money would be over $10 mil. It costs far more to cut him than keep him. Next year when his salary is not guaranteed, cutting him would be far more practical.
     
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  13. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Don't we have a new LB coach?
     
  14. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In theory I agree with you. It just seems you rarely see a guy making that much sitting on the bench. Personally, I'd be fine with it though.
     
  15. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I don't like the way PFF grades LBs.

    D'Qwell isn't a guy who is going to shed off a ton of blockers and make plays. He is fine against the run when his line can keep vlockers occupied and allow him to use his athleticism. Plus most thumpers are poor against the pass and vice versa.
     
  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't know the guy and haven't researched him yet, but if that's true then I'd be pretty wary.
     
  17. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    He's possibly the best leader at MLB left in the game as well as a ridiculously good pass defender. He's a three down backer.

    His run stopping is bad based on PFF grades...which like I said I personally hate for LBs. He's a tackling machine.

    Good article here

    http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/12/cleveland_browns_lb_dqwell_jac_8.html
     
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  18. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    Aside from all the reasons I like Jackson, this makes me happy bc it shows that they are awaremof what a big issue it was last year. Ireland would not have done this simply bc they were his picks

    When you start looking at packages Jackson could play all three downs...well. Ellerbe tried that last year but he just isn't a great pass coverage guy. Not horrible but not good. So that would put us, players already signed and adding Jackson, with:

    Misi Jackson Ellerbe
    Vernon/Jordan Odrick DT Wake

    And passing downs:

    Jackson Jenkins
    Jordan Vernon odrick wake

    If Patterson can stay healthy and our young guys develop, the backend might not need much work.
     
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  19. NyPhinfan

    NyPhinfan Season Ticket Holder

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    I too am happy that they are at least looking at the LBs and realize that there was definitely a problem. I couldn't watch a game last year without screaming about Ellerbe being pushed back 8 yards away from the play or Wheeler just whiffing totally on a block or hole. Playing Ellerbe outside intrigues me. He looked woefully out of place in the middle. Wheeler was just plain bad
     
  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't really like Jackson at all. He's got the same issues getting pushed around our linebackers had last year, and I don't really give a **** if he can cover. They drafted a coverage linebacker last year who filled the role pretty well in Jelani Jenkins.

    It's nice they are considering their options, I'd prefer they not sign another bad player.
     
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  21. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Its your right to not like him but I could not disagree more. Also did you really compare him to Jelanie? Riiiight.
     
  22. Grimes dogs

    Grimes dogs New Member

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    I had the same thoughts. Wheeler has to go, give Ellerbe one more shot at olb, and get a MLB in here that can control the middle.
     
  23. Grimes dogs

    Grimes dogs New Member

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    Give me Chris Borland from Wisconsin. The next Zach Thomas!!!!!
     
  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yeah, truth be known Ellerbe was worse then Wheeler, Jackson is an upgrade, unless Ellerbe can channel his inner Ray Lewis, he is very upgradeable.

    Wheeler is more of a run around player, Ellerbe is flat out weak at the poa
     
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  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Agreed, Jelani Jenkins is waaay underrated, if anyone pushes Wheeler out, it should be him.

    To me, the guy has massive potential
     
  26. BayAreaFinFan

    BayAreaFinFan D'oh Club Member

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    Since we're stuck with wheeler and Ellerbe, maybe we can put their game checks on the opposing TE or RB. They'd never be able to catch them and cash the check. Boom more money to sign Jackson.

    But in all seriousness our LB play was atrocious something HAS to be done.
     
  27. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The 2nd Patriots game might be pretty telling as far as the allocation of snaps goes moving into this year. I was surprised Ellerbe covered as well as he did, but I think Jenkins, if he learns to time his blitzes properly, could be very dangerous in sub packages.
     
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  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    he did play solid in certain situations and flashed a bit..more than I thought he would.
     
  29. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They can't cut Wheeler without a significant cap hit. He will likely be on the roster opening day, but starting may be a different manner.
     
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  30. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    This is true.

    However, I think what we do with Wheeler and Ellerbe depends on what we do in the rest of free agency.

    I think we need upgrades at both of their positions. Personally, I'd like to see Misi moved inside. But, I doubt that happens. Coaches are often afraid to do that. If we sign other players at other positions, however, and we have young LBs that are more promising and look better on special teams in camp, and if we have the space, then at that point I would consider cutting one or both and be done with them. Esp. if we can get Patterson to take a cut (or if we decide to cut him).
     
  31. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If we wait until 2015 to cut Ellerbe, there would be a cap savings of $5.6 mil. This year it costs 6 mil to keep him and over 11 mil if we cut him.
    Wheeler costs 5 mil to keep and over 10 to cut. Next year it would be a $200k savings to cut him.

    Of course, if we found some team that would trade for either one, that lessens the cap hit, since we'd not have to count the guaranteed base salaries against our cap. Who would trade for either one, and what would they give? I wouldn't expect many suitors.
     
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  33. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    I'll pass
     
  34. CleveSteve

    CleveSteve New Member

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    Cleveland fan here, having watched every one of his games as a pro across four different defensive schemes I'd say he's a plus level MLB for a 4-3 team. He's very good in pass coverage but hasn't been used much to attack the line of scrimmage. His best years came in a 4-3 two and three years ago. He will be a volume tackler in any scheme, but was miscast last year as a SILB. My guess is he will get $5-$6 million per year, but I'm no contract expert.
     
  35. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    MIA meeting w D'Qwell Jackson

    Players who do well for other teams and don't do well when we give them a big payday could have a character problem, or they could be square pegs that the coaches have stuck in round holes.

    I may not be too happy with Coyle if this rumor is true. If Wheeler and Ellerbe played well for their previous teams, it may be worthwhile to try to motivate them and/or adjust the system so they can succeed rather than throwing them in the trash the year after we brought them in.
     
  36. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I remember when Jenkins destroyed Thad Lewis on a delayed blitz. It was a clean hit but he hit him so hard Lewis' helmet flew off. Jenkins got flagged but shouldn't have.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm a little worried that Ellerbe versus D'Qwell Jackson may be six of one, half dozen of the other.

    But then again, Jackson was purely better than Ellerbe in 2013.

    The delta is really the leadership angle. Dannell Ellerbe is not a leader and I don't think people in Baltimore regarded him as one. There were even publicly visible signs he was not a leader when he got here. The locker room definitely lacked leaders and D'Qwell is a noted leader and high character guy.

    I'm neutral on the move to be honest. Miami will not have ot pay Dannell Ellerbe $6 million of guaranteed salary in 2014. They will have to pay Ellerbe whatever he doesn't make from his new team, and that includes signing bonus he receives as part of the new contract. Whatever compensation he makes in 2014 offsets the $6 million Miami owes. That's what I've been told by two agents.
     
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  38. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    wut teams want ellerby? maybe think trade is a better thing
     
  39. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Say you cut Ellerbe, the cap hit is $11,600,000. As long as he's on the team the cap hit is $7,425,000. If he is cut, why would another team sign him for more than the veteran minimum? I doubt they would. That is how much? About $1 mil? So, there is still over $10mil in dead money counting against the cap if cut and another team does sign him. That does not look like a lateral move to me from a salary cap standpoint.
     
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  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    For the same reason D'Qwell Jackson will sign for more than the veteran minimum. For the same reason Brandon Spikes will sign for more than the veteran minimum. Because they'd all be FREE AGENTS and will be free to sell their services to the highest bidder.

    If Baltimore and Cleveland are interested in Dannell Ellerbe and Cleveland is offering the veteran's minimum whereas Baltimore is offering the veteran's minimum plus $1 million of signing bonus, can you guess which team he'll sign with? Exactly.
     

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